I'm 31 and getting more idealistic with age, I was a miserable bastard when I was younger. All the life fuck ups showed me you can get what you want if you don't stop.
Do INFJs become less idealistic as they age?
- Thread starter Artemisia
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I don't really know, if I'm less idealistic - but I think my idealism has changed, and the way I deal with it has changed. I'm more cynical (and possibly angrier) with the world than I was in my youth, but ultimately I still believe we can make the world a better place if we actually decide to do something about it. I think what I have now is more of the, "I'm tired of sitting on my butt" idealism. I don't know what that will become, but I've lived long enough to see some of the same ugly things cycle back 'round. "Be the change you want to see" is becoming more of something I want to do, instead of simply believe.
- Dec 29, 2009
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I think as INFJs mature most probably become more idealistic not less, but we are much more considered about how to accomplish those aims, and more patient about when/how those goals are achieved. In my mind, I'm sure things I want to happen will not occur in my lifetime, but what's more important to me is to know that the journey towards them is progressing, and that the aims will eventually be achieved. A better more educated, more civilized and humane world. I know it looks bad at times, when we see terrorism or war etc, but overall humanity is improving. It may feel painfully slow, but it is happening.
Take something as basic as the Harry Potter books, not any kind of indoctrination but a very clever ethical, examination of childhood growth, conflict relationships, authority even war. All instilling a sense of values (not dogma) that may impact a whole generation of kids. Infj's influence people, we are meant to draw them to idealism. Once we address some of the more practical things in life, I think there is no type more effective in doing so.
In my life globally I've seen attitudes towards race, women, disability, gay rights, and non-violence improve greatly. There is still a very long way to go, but it is progressing. The genie is already out of the bottle, I think that's great.
Take something as basic as the Harry Potter books, not any kind of indoctrination but a very clever ethical, examination of childhood growth, conflict relationships, authority even war. All instilling a sense of values (not dogma) that may impact a whole generation of kids. Infj's influence people, we are meant to draw them to idealism. Once we address some of the more practical things in life, I think there is no type more effective in doing so.
In my life globally I've seen attitudes towards race, women, disability, gay rights, and non-violence improve greatly. There is still a very long way to go, but it is progressing. The genie is already out of the bottle, I think that's great.
Idealistically...short answer is yes.
As we mature our outlooks about life in general change and grow.
I found making a list of my personal ideals and doing a SWOT (strengths, weaknesses, opportunity, threats) analysis on each to see how it best serves myself & others help me put my energies into the right fight.
Not to mention it has helped me understand the Ti/Te function better.
There is nothing worse than getting into a Ni-Ti loop and feeling there is no exit sign in sight
As we mature our outlooks about life in general change and grow.
I found making a list of my personal ideals and doing a SWOT (strengths, weaknesses, opportunity, threats) analysis on each to see how it best serves myself & others help me put my energies into the right fight.
Not to mention it has helped me understand the Ti/Te function better.
There is nothing worse than getting into a Ni-Ti loop and feeling there is no exit sign in sight
I don't think I could answer for other idealists as I think it is likely to be dependent on the person themselves, and whatever they might be going through in their lives at the time. I think though that idealists have a resounding core belief that the world can be a better place, and, depending on their P or J BMPT trait will either shake the world by its shoulders until it sees that it can be better, or dream about ways in which it can transform.
As we go through life and get to experience the evil of human nature as well as the angelic, and the flavours in between, apart from the shock that humans can create such sour curdled vomit, for the most part I still believe that utopia is likely. There is the element, that because of personality disorders, psychopathic or sociopath disorders, that are a lot harder to have change. Nonetheless, I still have the hope that psychological treatment for these disorders too may turn people around to not having the bad elements any more.
So, in answer to the question of whether idealists become more or less idealistic as they get older, I believe that it is more likely that we become more idealistic, as usually, because we are smart and organise our lives so that we are more comfortable, perhaps have good jobs or have fewer financial woes, we have energy for idealistic creations and actions.
- Aug 21, 2015
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I know I already answered, but whether someone's ideals remain intact has to do with personal experience. After having read James' post about successful INFJ Rowling and watching a video of her famous "rock bottom was my foundation" speech right after (via a friend), I definitely think it has to do with personal experience.
With each veil that lifts to expose your ideals and "truths" as false, you turn less idealistic. And probably more jaded. Each veil lifts to expose the death of what you understood to be true.
Maybe your ideals stay intact if you go through one storm that shatters one ideal, or one truth.
Maybe your ideals stay intact when two truths are shattered.
Or three.
Even four.
But with each hard lesson that tells you "your truth" was not the truth, you become harder and your idealism with eventually falter.
It also depends on how much of your life was attached to such a truth. Your belief in love, your belief in friendship, your belief in truth, your belief in yourself.... Maybe you can withstand losing 3 or 4 minor truths, but adding that one big 'truth' to the list of lies would put you over the edge.
Truth is relative.
In Rowling's case, she hit her personal rock bottom, but it was matched with an enormous success most will never see. During her personal rock bottom she had no career, no love, no self esteem or self worth after having failed in every way in career and marriage, no money, but she did have friendship more valuable than rubies, and she did have the manuscript to focus on that kept her belief in herself intact. What if she had lost those friendships? Worse, what if those dear friends betrayed her? What if 'Harry Potter' had been a failure, too? (What if it never got published?) She would still be a mom, which is the most valuable truth. God forbid (whichever gods) what if that changed? What if she got very sick in a way that changed her life, too?
The desire to be idealistic can keep us going, but there is a point where it will quit.
It is different for each person, but each person has a point where they will turn jaded and hollow inside, as if dementors have sucked out their souls. And that is where idealism vanishes.
With each veil that lifts to expose your ideals and "truths" as false, you turn less idealistic. And probably more jaded. Each veil lifts to expose the death of what you understood to be true.
Maybe your ideals stay intact if you go through one storm that shatters one ideal, or one truth.
Maybe your ideals stay intact when two truths are shattered.
Or three.
Even four.
But with each hard lesson that tells you "your truth" was not the truth, you become harder and your idealism with eventually falter.
It also depends on how much of your life was attached to such a truth. Your belief in love, your belief in friendship, your belief in truth, your belief in yourself.... Maybe you can withstand losing 3 or 4 minor truths, but adding that one big 'truth' to the list of lies would put you over the edge.
Truth is relative.
In Rowling's case, she hit her personal rock bottom, but it was matched with an enormous success most will never see. During her personal rock bottom she had no career, no love, no self esteem or self worth after having failed in every way in career and marriage, no money, but she did have friendship more valuable than rubies, and she did have the manuscript to focus on that kept her belief in herself intact. What if she had lost those friendships? Worse, what if those dear friends betrayed her? What if 'Harry Potter' had been a failure, too? (What if it never got published?) She would still be a mom, which is the most valuable truth. God forbid (whichever gods) what if that changed? What if she got very sick in a way that changed her life, too?
The desire to be idealistic can keep us going, but there is a point where it will quit.
It is different for each person, but each person has a point where they will turn jaded and hollow inside, as if dementors have sucked out their souls. And that is where idealism vanishes.
After wandering around a misanthropic hell scape for a few months, my idealism is back and stronger than ever. People will puke their misery all over us, and life circumstances can deflate us to hopelessness, but sometimes it just takes one tiny spark in our darkness to reveal that our hope and idealism never really went anywhere, it was just hiding in the shadows.
My idealism is running extremely high, my hope is turning into action and I will murder any son of a bitch that tries to stand between me and utopia!
...wait, was that too much? I didn't mean murder, I meant I would hug them...to death.
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I believe we do gain in pragmatism while losing the perfectionism as we get older.
Nope..more realistic perhaps. The more I learn as I age, the more real I become. At least I think so...
Coming back to this 5 years later, I was right. I am the happiest I have ever been. You sexy bastard, past me.
You know,
I'm listening to a very in depth podcast about the Delphi murders and one of the things that has struck me is that one of the hosts comments,
"With age comes confidence. To me this killer is not a kid. He's not a teen or in his early 20s. He has that confidence that only comes from knowing you've been living a while."
I'm paraphrasing, but I've thought about that a lot, and I think part of what's been so difficult for me is that I'm 28 and am heading into my 30s and I'm entering this different phase of life. It isn't even intentional. My brain is just thinking differently, I'm starting to notice patterns and realize things that I didn't before.
I feel I'm "slower" and not in a negative context persay. I'm taking time to savor things, to contemplate. It's a switch in mindset I can't explain, but I remember experiencing something similar when I hit about 23/24. I would think back about being 16 and saw a stark difference in how my mind functions.
So this observation, as I often say, is not type based at all.
It's human based.
With lived experience you naturally become less idealistic because you know better.
I'm listening to a very in depth podcast about the Delphi murders and one of the things that has struck me is that one of the hosts comments,
"With age comes confidence. To me this killer is not a kid. He's not a teen or in his early 20s. He has that confidence that only comes from knowing you've been living a while."
I'm paraphrasing, but I've thought about that a lot, and I think part of what's been so difficult for me is that I'm 28 and am heading into my 30s and I'm entering this different phase of life. It isn't even intentional. My brain is just thinking differently, I'm starting to notice patterns and realize things that I didn't before.
I feel I'm "slower" and not in a negative context persay. I'm taking time to savor things, to contemplate. It's a switch in mindset I can't explain, but I remember experiencing something similar when I hit about 23/24. I would think back about being 16 and saw a stark difference in how my mind functions.
So this observation, as I often say, is not type based at all.
It's human based.
With lived experience you naturally become less idealistic because you know better.