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Disjoint Thoughts

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Faye, Oct 30, 2010.

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  1. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    If the needs of the future are going to shift from finite growth to the infinite growth (of knowledge), and if capitalist society is antagonistic to this need by supporting non-intellectual pursuits, a massive contradiction will arise.

    The best of human society is no better than the worst of human society.

    Humans are born in herds, live in herds, and die in herds. Why wouldn't they think and act like a herd?

    Society is held up with emotion, not reason. Humans don't decide to cooperate like Locke sees it. They feel that they should cooperate.






    These are thoughts that I wrote on a paper one night a couple of years ago. I see problems with every proposition here. Do you?

    No, I don't know what I was thinking.
     
  2. Praefect

    Praefect Sparkles

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    I love this. It made me think in ways I really enjoy. But yes, I see problems with almost every proposition. Not with the 4th one though. It seems to me that the torrents that drive society are not the product of rational thought, and labling that emotional would be fine by me. Where do you see the problem in it?
     
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    Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    I don't know what cooperation is exactly. I know what it looks like, but I don't know beyond that.
     
  4. Trifoilum

    Trifoilum find wisdom, build hope.

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    Yeah; I don't see it as a problem, as opposed to..... well, it has to be thought from a specific point of view and using a certain perspective for this to work.
    do explain? :D
     
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  5. Praefect

    Praefect Sparkles

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    Hm...

    I see it as emergent behavior with feedback.

    I'm just playing here, but lets say... there is individual drive and motivation, based on need and desire. And there is the drive of a society, which can be seen as a Gestalt created by the cumulative effects of the needs of the individual upon the large in a complex system. And then right back, this Gestalt creates a pressure upon the individual that acts like the super-ego upon the collective consciousness. Cooperation to fulfill a shared need, a common desire. Sometimes those desires become so widespread that a torrent is created that pulls everything else with it.

    In World War 2 a very primal need for security was triggered not in the nation, but in individuals within the nation. Individuals reading or hearing about the bombing of Pearl Harbor. You had shock, and fear, and that was reflected in everyone they saw. There was no security. People needed security. Emerging from that widespread need social pressures were created not by any one organization but organically it grew from the whole outward, within the big as a reflection of the small. A torrent, the super ego of society demanded fiercely that "the right thing" be done. Which led to teenagers singing up by the millions, and thousands of them feeling so worthless after being rejected that they killed themselves.

    I think World War 2 is a great place to study cooperation. I have not seen in history a greater coming together than within the United States at that time. Everything, Everywhere, Everyone was united in one cause.

    And then there are the poets, as defined by James P. Carse, which use words that move to plant seeds within the individual that grow up and out into the Gestalt, moving and directing and changing nations and minds.

    For example:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
     
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    Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    I really have no idea what was going through my head when I wrote that. I wrote it years ago, and posted it last night while drunk.
     
  7. Bird

    Bird Happy Go Lucky

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    I see cooperation as a sign of civilization.



    In order to cooperate you partially if not
    entirely abandon your sense of "I".


    Modern day ideas of a civilized individual are reliant
    on cooperation, that neglected sense of I. Putting
    others before yourself. The more you sacrifice the
    more civilized you are. However the leaders of our
    civilized worlds usually have an overt sense of I.
    Twisted, isn't it.
     
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