Canonisations of Popes | INFJ Forum

Canonisations of Popes

Lark

Rothchildian Agent
May 9, 2011
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I sort of think there is a pattern emerging with the RCC, they canonise the Pope responsible for the second vatican council and his traditionalist successor, the Pope(s) carrying out the canonisation are themselves traditionalist and (supposedly) a reformer/moderniser, I wonder if this sort of duality between supposed traditionalist and supposed innovator is something which is coming to characterise institutions, politics or culture.

In the UK there is a bizarre ConDem coalition of conservatives and liberal democrats (although to be honest it is the most conservative of the liberal democrats and probably properly so called conservative democrats or conservative populists, ie cultural liberals and fiscal conservatives) which seems to be a kind of version of what I'm talking about too.

Is it just a coincidence or a reflection of some sort of popular mind endorsement of supposed or nominal "balance" as opposed to (overt) radicalism?
 
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''Mwhahahahahahaaaa you will never cannon-ise me!!!''
 
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Is it just a coincidence or a reflection of some sort of popular mind endorsement of supposed or nominal "balance" as opposed to (overt) radicalism?

I wish I had the answer to that question! Would love to have some experts chime in ...

It could be like an evaluation and stamp of approval of what the other guy did, so that catholics know that they were holy and all that good stuff? I have only done very superficial research on the RCC, so I don't know.
 
Nazi Youth member Joseph Ratzinger was appointed in 1981 to head the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), formerly the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition - the mass murdering and torturing 'Holy Inquisition' - by the wrongly rose-painted Pope John Paul II.
The same Pope decreed in 2001 that all child abuse cases worldwide involving the Catholic clergy should be dealt with directly by Ratzinger at the CDF with the role, carried out with vigour, of stopping the Church-destroying truth coming to public attention and, in doing so, denying justice to abused children and allowing paedophile priests and bishops to stay in their jobs and continue their abuse of other children.
Ratzinger has resigned because of ill health? His mate John Paul II continued in his last four years despite suffering from Parkinson's disease, severe arthritis and having difficulty speaking and hearing. Popes don't resign and this is why it hasn't happened for 600 years. This is really about the truth coming out and there is a tidal wave of that still to do so - especially in Ratzinger's case.
I have said it for two decades and I will go on saying it - paedophilia and Satanism are the cement that hold the global Establishment together and the Roman Church is founded upon both going back to its theological 'inspiration' in Babylon and beyond.- Alex Gibney
 
OK let's try this:

Nazi Youth member Joseph Ratzinger


He was forced into it. He and his family were vocally opposed to the nazis, to the point of gaining notoriety. He wasn't active in Hitler Jugend.

appointed in 1981 to head the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF)

A congregation of the top catholics.

Louis C.K. once said that he thought that if aliens were dropped on this planet and heard about the Catholic Church, they would think that it was a child molestation club that were really good at what they were doing. He said it, ok. Don't vote me down because of what some other guy said, even though I agree with what he said. My point is that I agree that catholics do shady stuff and that they've greenlit a lot of terrible things. I agree on that point. But only on that point. Which really should be the important point. That's my opinion.
 
OK let's try this:



He was forced into it. He and his family were vocally opposed to the nazis, to the point of gaining notoriety. He wasn't active in Hitler Jugend.



A congregation of the top catholics.

Louis C.K. once said that he thought that if aliens were dropped on this planet and heard about the Catholic Church, they would think that it was a child molestation club that were really good at what they were doing. He said it, ok. Don't vote me down because of what some other guy said, even though I agree with what he said. My point is that I agree that catholics do shady stuff and that they've greenlit a lot of terrible things. I agree on that point. But only on that point. Which really should be the important point. That's my opinion.

yes the child rape is the point i'd emphasise too
 
My point is that I agree that catholics do shady stuff and that they've greenlit a lot of terrible things. I agree on that point.

This is a gross overgeneralization. I agree that there have been priests that have committed horrible things, including paedophilia and child abuse and that the Catholic hierarchy acted in a self-serving and irresponsible way as well as an immoral and at times illegal way by protecting themselves and not contacting the authorities and charging the priests who committed these acts, but holding all Catholics responsible for what some Catholics did is like saying that all men are responsible because men commit paedophilia.
 
This is a gross overgeneralization. I agree that there have been priests that have committed horrible things, including paedophilia and child abuse and that the Catholic hierarchy acted in a self-serving and irresponsible way as well as an immoral and at times illegal way by protecting themselves and not contacting the authorities and charging the priests who committed these acts, but holding all Catholics responsible for what some Catholics did is like saying that all men are responsible because men commit paedophilia.

If you know an institution is responsible for systemic child rape and then the systemic covering up of child rape do you:

A. Leave that institution and never go back?
B. Ignore it and pretend it never happened and isn't still happening?
C. Embrace the institution, fill its coffers with money, keep attending its rituals and kiss the ring of its elected leader?

No you can't blame all catholics for what is going on in the church but you can suggest that maybe they shouldn't be supporting an institution that behaves that way
 
If you know an institution is responsible for systemic child rape and then the systemic covering up of child rape do you:

A. Leave that institution and never go back?
B. Ignore it and pretend it never happened and isn't still happening?
C. Embrace the institution, fill its coffers with money, keep attending its rituals and kiss the ring of its elected leader?

No you can't blame all catholics for what is going on in the church but you can suggest that maybe they shouldn't be supporting an institution that behaves that way

You can certainly suggest that, but if you say that Catholics do shady stuff because some Catholics did, then you might as well add: Protestants do shady stuff, Jews do shady stuff, Muslims do shady stuff, atheists do shady stuff, anarchists do shady stuff, men do shady stuff, women do shady stuff, the list can go on forever... you're not going to find any group in the World that doesn't have some members of the group that do shady stuff.

Some people consider being Catholic as part of their identity and it is very important to them and brings them comfort and a sense of belonging. You're not going to convince them that they should not be Catholic. All Catholics have a responsibility to be vigilant and to demand that their church protect the innocent and do the right thing in all circumstances but they have a right to do it as a member of the Church. Just my two cents on that, you have a right to be an anarchist or whatever else you want to be even if members of that group have done some terrible things, and others have a right to be Catholic.
 
You can certainly suggest that, but if you say that Catholics do shady stuff because some Catholics did, then you might as well add: Protestants do shady stuff, Jews do shady stuff, Muslims do shady stuff, atheists do shady stuff, anarchists do shady stuff, men do shady stuff, women do shady stuff, the list can go on forever... you're not going to find any group in the World that doesn't have some members of the group that do shady stuff.

Some people consider being Catholic as part of their identity and it is very important to them and brings them comfort and a sense of belonging. You're not going to convince them that they should not be Catholic. All Catholics have a responsibility to be vigilant and to demand that their church protect the innocent and do the right thing in all circumstances but they have a right to do it as a member of the Church. Just my two cents on that, you have a right to be an anarchist or whatever else you want to be even if members of that group have done some terrible things, and others have a right to be Catholic.

I didn't say they don't have a right to be catholic i said maybe they shouldn't support an institution that is widely known to be harbouring child rapists; that's without even getting into their banking scandals. We're not talking about a few bad apples, we're talking about systemic abuse, systemic corruption and systemic cover ups

You know what changes the world? People voting with their feet
 
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/07/vatican-bank-reprieve-pope-francis-scandals-reform

[h=1]Vatican bank granted reprieve by Pope Francis after series of scandals[/h] Vatican announces reform plan after months of investigation and speculation that bank will be closed

The Vatican bank is to stay in business despite speculation Pope Francis might close down the scandal-plagued institution. After months of investigation and consultation, the Vatican announced the pope had opted for a reform plan instead.
The bank, officially called the Institute for the Works of Religion (IOR), has as its core business the management of cash deposited by Catholic religious institutions and members of the clergy. But its offshore status has been central to a string of scandals and controversies.
The statement said the IOR would continue to "serve with prudence". It added that strict regulatory supervision and improvements in compliance and transparency were critical for the institute's future.
But it said Francis recognised "the importance of the IOR's mission for the good of the Catholic church, the Holy See and the Vatican city state".
His predecessor, Pope Benedict, launched a cleanup of the bank before his resignation last year. One of his last acts as pontiff was to appoint a German financier, Ernst von Freyberg, as the IOR's president.
Since then, thousands of accounts have been vetted – and several hundred closed – in a bid to comply with international standards. An IOR spokesman said the management's priority would be to screen clients by early summer, integrate the bank with other Vatican financial institutions and introduce operational improvements.
Monsignor Nunzio Scarano, a former Vatican accountant, faces trial on charges of laundering millions of euros through the bank. The bank's former director and deputy director have been indicted in a separate case on charges of violating money-laundering regulations.
Last year Pope Francis said last year closure of the bank was one of three options under consideration.
 
I wish I had the answer to that question! Would love to have some experts chime in ...

It could be like an evaluation and stamp of approval of what the other guy did, so that catholics know that they were holy and all that good stuff? I have only done very superficial research on the RCC, so I don't know.

I'll just note that its incredibly controversial for an RC to think this out loud because all canonisations are supposedly following evidence gathering and proof of apparitions and miracles, saints are not saints because they live exemplary lives but because there are miracles performed while alive and after they are dead which would suggest that they are beyond a doubt in heaven/in the prescence of God.

The novel Canticle of Lebowitz is sort of a satire upon this though, illustrating how this process can reflect politik and realpolitik instead of anything supernatural. Canticle is a good post-apocalyptic novel set in a distant future in which everything bar a futuristic roman catholicism has been destroyed.
 
Nazi Youth member Joseph Ratzinger was appointed in 1981

The thig about Christianity is that evil doers change their ways and are a saved. What better example than the universal evil of a nazi member becoming the leader of the such an organization.
 
The thig about Christianity is that evil doers change their ways and are a saved. What better example than the universal evil of a nazi member becoming the leader of the such an organization.

Yeah, although I dont think this is as dramatic as that, its a little like the repeated slurs upon Tin Tin's creator for being complicit at the time the SS were breathing down his neck.

Everyone's a big balls from the safety of their computers years and years after the fact when the black taxis or murder squads are unlikely to come and put your door in for the mere hint of non-compliance.

Flagging Ratzinger's Hitler Youth days is about as politic as refering to someone being in the scouts or national guard cadet cores, that sort of thing, by the point at which he was a member it wasnt a political choice between a dozen or so competiting cadres it was the sole option and neutrality wasnt an option either.

There's plenty of reasons to question Ratzinger's role in the Church or ascendency but they are mundane and dull, no sensationalism or scandal to be had with an honest appraisal of the clashes between Hans Kung and others and how the clash itself probably pushed both antagonists further in their own respect directions and robbing much of their positions of legitimacy in the process. Nope. The equivalent of Godwining the thread will do.
 
I kind of wish they had canonized Pope John XXII instead of Pope John XXIII.

In addition to explicitly condemning the doctrine of Papal Infallibility (which the Roman Catholic Church accepted as a dogma only in the late 19th century) as not only false but a "doctrine of demons," he also taught that souls are not conscious between death and the bodily resurrection in the last days and cannot receive the beatific vision before Jesus returns. The implication of course is that the intercession of the saints (at least of dead ones) is completely worthless and the church organization has no business canonizing anyone.

It would be amusingly ironic to declare that he is in heaven and enjoying the beatific vision now even though he believed that was impossible.

(John XXII is not considered a heretic, despite disagreeing with modern Catholic dogmas, because the Church had not yet formally defined any of the doctrines which he questioned. It was his immediate successor who first imposed as dogma the view that Saints are conscious in heaven and able to intercede to God to perform miracles. This view was already popular among the superstitious but never had much biblical support, so the more rational Christians had been free to reject it well into the 14th century. Having a Pope speak against it though was unprofitable for an organization that made so much of its money off of pilgrims traveling to visit the relics of saints. Pope Benedict XII's position was much better for business.)
 
The thig about Christianity is that evil doers change their ways and are a saved. What better example than the universal evil of a nazi member becoming the leader of the such an organization.

Its no coincidence

The vatican have been linked with the nazis

The church has always been one of the biggest land owners in europe so they have always been against any movements that might affect their power. They are also close to the royal families of europe because traditionally they played a role as kingmaker. The monarch was always crowned by the church, with the blessing of 'god'

Then there are aristocratic families around europe who also owned all the land and were involved in trade and banking going right back to the crusades. These families that maintained close links to the vatican are called the 'black nobility'

So there was a social system of the monarchy at the top with the church and the aristocracy beneath them, all of which owned vast swathes of europe

Historically as 'christians' they were not able to charge interest on loans so they had to use jewish merchants and money changers to act as their bankers. Each european monarch would have a jewish quarter in their city called a 'ghetto' to house the jewish bankers and merchants. This is what inspired shakespeares play 'the merchant of venice' about a jewish money lender called Shylock

Some jewish bankers were very successful and got very close to the throne. The rothschilds for example are described as 'court jews'.

So what there is today is a network of royalty, aristocracy, church and jewish central bankers who all work together to maintain a pyramidal social structure and to keep working people DOWN

To achieve this they have supported fascists who use the state to control the population. This is why the church and industrialists supported Hitler to stop the spread of communism which threatened the networks land holdings

This network created knightly orders around the time of the crusades and these all exist today some of which as part of the secret society network

The corporate powers in the US working through the CIA support this fascist network in the fight against communism because the big money interests in the USA are also threatened by workers movements that might take their land and wealth away

One knightly order was suppressed in France (the templars) and many of them fled to switzerland where they created a banking powerhouse that exists to this day. The swiss banks managed the nazis gold and wealth. The swiss also supply the vatican with their mercenary guards

When the membership list of the P2 freemasonic lodge in Italy was exposed it revealed lots of right wing members of the military, intelligence services, politicans and journalists. It was exposed as a fascist institution with business links to the vatican bank. The head of the vatican bank was found hanging from a bridge in london, no doubt to silence him from talking about the corruption in the vatican bank (which has been exposed since)

None of this is conspiracy theory its all fact. These people form a network who stop the spread of communism and who concentrate all the wealth and power at the top of society to the detriment of the rest of society.

The rothschilds are right at the centre of this network

Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is either ignorant or is deliberately trying to misslead you
 
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http://articles.latimes.com/1997/jul/23/news/mn-15484

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[h=1]U.S. Document Links Vatican, Nazi Gold[/h]
July 23, 1997

WASHINGTON — Two months after a comprehensive U.S. study severely criticized Switzerland and several other neutral countries for dealing in gold plundered by Nazis during World War II, a U.S. government document came to light for the first time Tuesday containing evidence that links the Vatican with such dealings.
The 1946 Treasury Department document states that the Nazi puppet regime in Croatia, the Ustashe, smuggled about 350 million Swiss francs (about $295 million at today's prices) out of Yugoslavia "where Jews and Serbs were plundered to support the Ustashe organization in exile," apparently during the Third Reich's final months. The document said that "approximately 200 million [francs, valued today at $170 million] was originally held in the Vatican for safekeeping."


The document goes on to cite a rumor that much of this money was later funneled to Spain and Argentina through what it termed the "Vatican's pipeline" to finance the lifestyles of fleeing Nazis.
In Rome, chief Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls dismissed the document's validity. "There is no basis in reality to the report," he said, adding that the account was based on an anonymous source "whose reliability is more than dubious."
In the United States, however, Jewish organizations hailed the find as important.
"This is an extremely significant development that fits into the pattern of the Nazi gold question," said Elan Steinberg, executive director of the World Jewish Congress. "It is a pattern that involved not just Switzerland and other neutral countries, but, according to U.S. intelligence documents, went into the heart of the Holy See."
Steinberg urged the Vatican to open its archives and establish an independent commission to study its role in the Nazi gold trade.
Although declassified late last year along with about 1 million other pages of previously unavailable government records on the matter, the document apparently escaped the notice of those who compiled a U.S. government study that traced the flow of Nazi gold.
Instead, the document was discovered by researchers from the A&E cable television network after they had completed a documentary on the Nazi gold issue.
The document purporting the Vatican link is a letter from a Treasury Department civil servant named Emerson Bigelow. He was apparently passing on a field intelligence report to his superior, Harold Glasser, identified as the department's director of monetary research. It cites "a reliable source in Italy" as the report's origin.
U.S. government officials say the information originated from the Office of Strategic Services, the nation's prime intelligence group late in World War II.
Donald Steury, who wrote sections of the recent Nazi gold report that drew from secret intelligence documents, described Bigelow as "a coordinating individual" who sifted and passed upward information from intelligence sources at a time when the Treasury was deeply involved in "Operation Safe Haven," the post-World War II attempt to track Nazi loot.
Steury described the use of "reliable source" as standard wording and added that the validity of the Vatican link could be accurately assessed only if the identity of the source becomes known.
 
Muir has been linked with the Vatican. Heads up y'all.
 

Both of your action are both ultimately benefiting our reptilian shapechanging masters. You spread fear, they spread fear, you spread little in solutions, they spread thier solutions to problems that are post mortem and so aren't a solution for here and now. Etc.