Boeing 737-Max Groundings Worldwide... Assume you are Boeing... | INFJ Forum

Boeing 737-Max Groundings Worldwide... Assume you are Boeing...

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by MoonFlier, Mar 13, 2019 at 8:55 PM.

Share This Page

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 3 users.
More threads by MoonFlier
  1. MoonFlier

    MoonFlier Community Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Threads:
    5
    Messages:
    221
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    848
    Trophy Points:
    852
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INxJ
    I'm really curious as to the response of others on this topic as it is one that hits close to my core. I know how I'd respond initially, secondly, and long term. But... how would the rest of you...

    As we have seen, Boeing has had some major catastrophes with their 737-Max planes. In response, countries around the globe have grounded these planes until they are proven safe. The US, just minutes ago announced doing the same.

    Let's assume we're the Boeing Company, and you're in charge here. What would you be feeling and doing? (Remember, investigations take a long time.)
     
    Lady Jolanda, acd and Wyote like this.
  2. Wyote

    Wyote Con Risa Absoluta
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Threads:
    221
    Messages:
    25,029
    Featured Threads:
    14
    Likes Received:
    97,161
    Trophy Points:
    4,271
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    Ni Space
    Enneagram:
    9 Seas
    I am slightly disappointed in the US for not taking the lead on grounding them.
    Seems like the right thing to do. Casualties are unacceptable.
    Flying in general is terrifying enough for the consumer, it's better long term to give them more confidence.
    Granted, we are flying more planes than ever. More malfunctions/mistakes is an inevitability.
    Maybe if people had a better conception of just how much humans are flying these days there would be less outrage though.
    Lots more people die in every other vehicle transport. Lots.

    I'm also a bit shocked because planes mostly fly themselves.
    Seems like a total freak coincidence, and if it's not then it definitely is a problem worth grounding all of the planes for.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Lady Jolanda and MoonFlier like this.
  3. OP
    MoonFlier

    MoonFlier Community Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Threads:
    5
    Messages:
    221
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    848
    Trophy Points:
    852
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INxJ
    I'm with you. The US should have at least ordered an in depth investigation immediately. The reason they did not is under debate, but I'm assuming it has something to do with Boeing's headquarters being in the US and some personal/financial relationships there.
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...boeing-ceo-dennis-muilenburg-trump-tweet-call
     
    Lady Jolanda and Wyote like this.
  4. OP
    MoonFlier

    MoonFlier Community Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Threads:
    5
    Messages:
    221
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    848
    Trophy Points:
    852
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INxJ
    Were I in charge at Boeing, after a brief minutes of panic (get it out and be done), it would have been for the best to take ownership of a potential problem and negotiate a short period of time in which to assemble some teams to go over the planes with a fine tooth comb, run tests and develop some over the top early warning systems for numerous issues. (Someone farts, head back to the terminal type deal). The CEO's response was wrong and how companies spiral into troubled times.

    They need to open up dialog with the pilots. Apparently they are not happy with the plane and have been posting as such in their forums. There has to be some indicators there if it is a structural or systems issue as to what is going on.
     
    #4 MoonFlier, Mar 13, 2019 at 9:47 PM
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019 at 10:24 PM
    Lady Jolanda and Wyote like this.
  5. Pin

    Pin "Magnificent Bastard" / Ren's Counterpart

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Threads:
    0
    Messages:
    5,432
    Likes Received:
    16,635
    Trophy Points:
    2,563
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    ENTJ
    Enneagram:
    3w4, 3-8-7
    They're just going to wait until the next story in the news cycle. The investigation in the United States isn't going to be rigorous, not with the 115th senate we have. At most they'll be fined a pittance, if anything.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Wyote, Lady Jolanda and MoonFlier like this.
  6. Lady Jolanda

    Lady Jolanda The Queen of Sophistry
    Staff Member Tech Admins

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Threads:
    16
    Messages:
    2,725
    Featured Threads:
    3
    Likes Received:
    22,168
    Trophy Points:
    2,367
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    MBTI:
    xNxx
    Enneagram:
    6-4-9
    The Boeing 373 MAX is a new type of airplane has been in the sky for just over 2 years (2017 launch). There are 350 of them in service around the world. Two Boeing 373 MAX 8's have crashed in 5 months. Two out of 350 might not seem like much, but given that it is currently completely unknown what the causes of the crashes are, and having two major crashes within such a short time of an airplane's lifespan, makes grounding the airplanes the only safe option: there could be a serious design flaw. A mechanical or computer fault seems likely. The LionAir flight, the first 373 MAX 8 that went down, supposedly had measurement errors related to speed and height. Those are critical systems. Especially because...

    Most planes do fly themselves. Boeing's automated systems are advanced. Airbus arguably goes even further. But the automation does rely on correct data. Measurement or processing errors can be deadly. They're also sometimes irreproducible under lab conditions, and very, very hard to forsee. The engineers simply never envision operating conditions like that being remotely possible and hence the system isn't equipped to deal with it.

    What should Boeing do? Eliminate the most likely causes first. Learn from the past, and from their major competitor Airbus. The first crashed flight had problems with its (measured) speed and height. The second flight crashed 6 minutes after take-off, meaning it's still climbing to its cruising altitude.

    I'm going to follow my intuition here and throw the cause of both crashes out there: They stalled in mid air.

    I'm going one step further and relay these scenarios to Qantas Flight 72. This airbus A330 nearly crashed cause their flight computer went haywire after being fed wrong speed and height data. The flight computer started burping errors, locking the pilots out of their input, and thought the plane was stalling so compensated by throwing it into a dive. Twice.
    Boeing should look into this event and then go over their algorithms that deal with speed, angle of attack, and altitude data, as well as their inertial measurement system. I'm very sure the problem is one of these.

    Xxx,
    Ti.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    MoonFlier, neko and Wyote like this.
  7. OP
    MoonFlier

    MoonFlier Community Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Threads:
    5
    Messages:
    221
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    848
    Trophy Points:
    852
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INxJ
    Exactly. The timing of the events combined with reports from other pilots flying the same model plane all point to the issue being related to the automatic pilot taking over and hitting a fault. Recreating the bug has to be hard in a simulator, but if the analysts simply open their ears to the numerous pilots posting about the problems they've encountered, there is enough information coming in that they should be able to study what is going on and take some educated guesses on where to start to debugging.

    Boeing and other manufacturers now have the tech available to monitor every plane under near-live conditions from the convenience of their home office. So, why don't they? The onboard black box is useful for analyzing crashes, but a live feed of data to the company who created the vehicle could help them see glitchy behavior and prevent the need.
     
    #7 MoonFlier, Mar 14, 2019 at 6:37 PM
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019 at 6:49 PM
    Lady Jolanda likes this.
  8. Asa

    Asa Resident palindrome

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Threads:
    70
    Messages:
    3,100
    Featured Threads:
    19
    Likes Received:
    13,733
    Trophy Points:
    1,681
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Hmmm, well, I would hire a skilled, competent, and dependable workforce and drug test them for all drugs, not just weed. (I know they test for weed, but not speed because speed makes workers work faster.)
    I know people who work/have worked building the planes and, well, it doesn't make me feel safer.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    MoonFlier likes this.
  9. OP
    MoonFlier

    MoonFlier Community Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Threads:
    5
    Messages:
    221
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    848
    Trophy Points:
    852
    Gender:
    Female
    MBTI:
    INxJ
    But the same can be said for assembly lines for cars. That's why every vehicle, especially aircraft is put through calisthenics, stress testing and calibrations prior to going into the hands of the buyer. Drug testing will only reduce the amount of flaws found before shipment.

    To my ears, this sounds like software and/or firmware. It may be that the issue lies in components Boeing purchased for installation and not with Boeing themselves.

    Point to note: of the two crashes, experts have said one looks like it was torn apart prior to hitting the ground. The two crashes share many commonalities, but if so, this difference is huge.
     
    Lady Jolanda likes this.
  10. Sloe Djinn

    Sloe Djinn Idiot with Internet Access. Puts Tabasco on Pizza.

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Threads:
    129
    Messages:
    4,561
    Featured Threads:
    9
    Likes Received:
    6,643
    Trophy Points:
    877
    MBTI:
    SOCMOB
    Enneagram:
    .
    I would lament that the world is shunning me for one misstep and failing to appreciate the intensity, depth, and big-picture scope of my plane-building, as opposed to all of the other shallow, more-extroverted plane manufacturers with their parties and bars.

    ...

    It would suck to be Boeing right now. It probably sucks more to be a dead passenger or one of their loved ones.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Lady Jolanda and MoonFlier like this.
  11. Stu

    Stu Pre-Pottery B Neolithocrat
    Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Threads:
    208
    Messages:
    12,089
    Featured Threads:
    15
    Likes Received:
    10,983
    Trophy Points:
    1,751
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Turdetania
    MBTI:
    infj
    Enneagram:
    Insouciant
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    MoonFlier likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page