Biological Changes in Enlightenment

[apemon]

Hey all I found this very good article on the sudden awakening type of enlightenment and thought I would share - anybody else experience this? I awoke last winter and am looking forward to my 1st b-day party.


http://www.shaktitechnology.com/enlightenment.htm

 

[sprinkles]

[video=youtube;2d2ZHmG_uog]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d2ZHmG_uog[/video]

 

[Flavus Aquila]

The article treats enlightenment as a subjective state - or changed subjective state.
I wouldn't call such a state enlightened unless it were coupled to an actual external source of illumination (intellectual, not physical).


I am sure neuroscientists might be able to cause one, chemically, to be subjectively in love. But I would not call such a state 'being in love' unless it were in connection to another real person.

ie. I think there is an objective dimension to illumination; not simply a subjective one.

 

[Hazard]

I found this article to be very enlightening. I only made a quick scan but I've had several negative and positive states of mind that have induced or centered around supernatural phenomena and this corresponds. This actually makes a lot of sense. I think spiritual and biological forces can go hand in hand and just because it's scientific that doesn't mean we're aren't touching up on something greater than science.

[MENTION=862]Flavus Aquila[/MENTION] I disagree. I think enlightenment can only be achieved through subjective experience. I think there's something deeply objective about subjective experience if that makes any sense. The internal world is more real than the external. Through subjective experience I've come to believe that each of our psyches are connected somehow. There's an internal world within life that is separate from the external and the external was created by the internal. The internal actually affects the external and makes it be, not the other way around as is commonly believed. At least, this has been my subjective experience. This world we live in, this fake matrix is something that will be destroyed. Spirit and soul is eternal. The part of you that leaves this dimension, world, universe and goes on to the next life is the truth. I think the only enlightenment that can take place is within and that the truth is inside. Like I said I'll be reading this once more when I'm not so tired.

 

[sprinkles]

The article treats enlightenment as a subjective state - or changed subjective state.
I wouldn't call such a state enlightened unless it were coupled to an actual external source of illumination (intellectual, not physical).


I am sure neuroscientists might be able to cause one, chemically, to be subjectively in love. But I would not call such a state 'being in love' unless it were in connection to another real person.

ie. I think there is an objective dimension to illumination; not simply a subjective one.

There is. The article actually explains it in a roundabout way towards the end.

Evolution (I mean Darwin's theory, not the spiritual kind) works by selecting the members of a species best suited to their situation. They
live longer. They breed more. They get away from tigers better. Whatever.

The species changes in response to the reality of death. Without any planning of who they want to be, each species focuses on death, according to how it's most likely to appear for them, in order to avoid it.

Each species ends up being whatever it is. No planning to their bodies, behaviors, and minds. Each feature is a response to something in their
evolutionary history. It helped them survive. Right at the time it appeared. "In the moment", so to speak.

It happens because the priority is avoiding death.

When the priority is really being in one's life; LIVING in each moment, without negative thoughts or feelings, the same thing happens. If the person avoids anything that feels like it goes against that the way a gazelle avoids a leopard or a brush fire.

In time, that individual is going to become a different person.

If they believe that there is an absolute limit on the process, like:

Enlightenment
Oneness with God
Complete purity
Liberation
Being guaranteed a place in heaven
Unconditional love
Final Realization

....or anything like these, the person will no longer have any notion about what to do to continue the process once they reach their goal. Or rather,
that it can be continued at all. And far worse, failure to reach enlightenment becomes a kind of personal failure. Worst of all, other people's failure to try to reach it makes them seem a bit .... coarse.

When an enlightened one teaches their process as 'the way', they fail to see that their state might not be as fulfilling for others. One 'enlightenment' is about love because the PERSON is about love. Another one is about 'being here now' because the person is about that.

Darwinian evolution uses navigation by dead reckoning, away from death. Each species developing in its own direction.

"The Process", if I can call it that, does the same thing.

A species that's really improving its ability to live isn't trying to arrive at a 'perfect' form.

There is an external source of illumination. However the goal is not to discover some 'knowledge' - it is not objective in that sense.

Rather it is a simple and direct insight to the workings of all things, something that anyone is capable of. It has been said that even the grass can be enlightened. How can this be so?

Because it is not really changing or discovering anything. Enlightenment is not actually special or profound. It's simply casting aside the blindfold that you maybe didn't know you were wearing and seeing the world that you maybe forgot was there.

 

[sprinkles]

I found this article to be very enlightening. I only made a quick scan but I've had several negative and positive states of mind that have induced or centered around supernatural phenomena and this corresponds. This actually makes a lot of sense. I think spiritual and biological forces can go hand in hand and just because it's scientific that doesn't mean we're aren't touching up on something greater than science.

[MENTION=862]Flavus Aquila[/MENTION] I disagree. I think enlightenment can only be achieved through subjective experience. I think there's something deeply objective about subjective experience if that makes any sense. The internal world is more real than the external. Through subjective experience I've come to believe that each of our psyches are connected somehow. There's an internal world within life that is separate from the external and the external was created by the internal. The internal actually affects the external and makes it be, not the other way around as is commonly believed. At least, this has been my subjective experience. This world we live in, this fake matrix is something that will be destroyed. Spirit and soul is eternal. The part of you that leaves this dimension, world, universe and goes on to the next life is the truth. I think the only enlightenment that can take place is within and that the truth is inside. Like I said I'll be reading this once more when I'm not so tired.

I respectfully say that I see the opposite.

Inner reality is only a dream, there is no eternal soul, for you die and are reborn with every passing moment.

We are connected. The universe is one. It is one in the external matrix. That is where we all connect. This internal matrix is blindness and is what leads people to loss and suffering - things which do not exist without consciousness.

Indeed, consciousness, your internal strife, desires, beliefs, and aversions is the actual key to all suffering and evil. The inner matrix is what causes us all to die over and over again. The inner matrix is Hell.

 

[Hazard]

I respectfully say that I see the opposite.

Inner reality is only a dream, there is no eternal soul, for you die and are reborn with every passing moment.

We are connected. The universe is one. It is one in the external matrix. That is where we all connect. This internal matrix is blindness and is what leads people to loss and suffering - things which do not exist without consciousness.

Indeed, consciousness, your internal strife, desires, beliefs, and aversions is the actual key to all suffering and evil. The inner matrix is what causes us all to die over and over again. The inner matrix is Hell.

So you're saying connecting with the universe and becoming one with it is ideal? I've been under the impression that in searching internally you become awakened to a greater truth than your self. That the deeper you search the further you become aware of spiritual things. How does searching within oneself cause us to die eternally? Funny video btw.

 

[sprinkles]

So you're saying connecting with the universe and becoming one with it is ideal? I've been under the impression that in searching internally you become awakened to a greater truth than your self. That the deeper you search the further you become aware of spiritual things. How does searching within oneself cause us to die eternally?

The change takes place within yourself because that is where your consciousness and ego lives.

Yes, you become awakened to the truth that in the universe, nothing is wrong unless we make it wrong in our dream. You become aware of how perfectly balanced so many things are, you see all the details and all the harmonies, all the interactions, which all just WORK without trying.

In essence you see what I might call God, if I may call it that. Or at least you see God's creation. And you find NOTHING lacking because it is PERFECT and it was only our ego hurting ourselves all along. Then, what was you dies a final time, and is not reborn. It moves beyond life and death.

 

[apemon]

The change takes place within yourself because that is where your consciousness and ego lives.

Yes, you become awakened to the truth that in the universe, nothing is wrong unless we make it wrong in our dream. You become aware of how perfectly balanced so many things are, you see all the details and all the harmonies, all the interactions, which all just WORK without trying.

In essence you see what I might call God, if I may call it that. Or at least you see God's creation. And you find NOTHING lacking because it is PERFECT and it was only our ego hurting ourselves all along. Then, what was you dies a final time, and is not reborn. It moves beyond life and death.

This.

 

[Hazard]

The change takes place within yourself because that is where your consciousness and ego lives.

Yes, you become awakened to the truth that in the universe, nothing is wrong unless we make it wrong in our dream. You become aware of how perfectly balanced so many things are, you see all the details and all the harmonies, all the interactions, which all just WORK without trying.

In essence you see what I might call God, if I may call it that. Or at least you see God's creation. And you find NOTHING lacking because it is PERFECT and it was only our ego hurting ourselves all along. Then, what was you dies a final time, and is not reborn. It moves beyond life and death.

So if I can rephrase it you're saying our ego causes conflicts within the self and causes chaos between the self and out world. The universe is perfect in the way it moves, synchronizes and balances and the less we identify with ourselves the more we become a part of this perfection and unification. Tell me if I misunderstood but could you give me an in depth description of the ego? I believe I know what it is but I have a hard time placing it into words. The way I understand it is that it's the way a person tries to identify himself for himself and other people. But I don't see how delving deeper into the self to search for truth is synonymous with how one identifies themselves. We DO have an identity even if we misunderstand it or misrepresent it. Also [MENTION=6697]apemon[/MENTION] can you describe the state of enlightenment you achieved?

 

[sprinkles]

So if I can rephrase it you're saying our ego causes conflicts within the self and causes chaos between the self and out world. The universe is perfect in the way it moves, synchronizes and balances and the less we identify with ourselves the more we become a part of this perfection and unification. Tell me if I misunderstood but could you give me an in depth description of the ego? I believe I know what it is but I have a hard time placing it into words. The way I understand it is that it's the way a person tries to identify himself for himself and other people. But I don't see how delving deeper into the self to search for truth is synonymous with how one identifies themselves. We DO have an identity even if we misunderstand it or misrepresent it. Also [MENTION=6697]apemon[/MENTION] can you describe the state of enlightenment you achieved?

The ego is what causes you to be in samsara.

Saṃsāra (Sanskrit, Pali; also samsara) is a Buddhist term that literally means "continuous movement" and is commonly translated as "cyclic existence", "cycle of existence", etc. Within Buddhism, samsara is defined as the continual repetitive cycle of birth and death that arises from ordinary beings' grasping and fixating on a self and experiences.

Your ego is in fact the thing that is making you insist that you have it.

The nature of samsara is a habitual, repetitive pattern. Ajahn Sucitto explains:

The pattern is that each new arising, or "birth" if you like, is experienced as unfulfilling. In this process of ongoing need, we keep moving from this to that without ever getting to the root of the process. Another aspect of this need is the need to fix things, or to fix ourselves—to make conflict or pain go away. By this I mean an instinctive response rather than a measured approach of understanding what is possible to fix and what dukkha has to be accommodated right now. Then there's the need to know, to have it all figured out. That gets us moving too. This continued movement is an unenlightened being's response to dukkha. That movement is what is meant by samsāra, the wandering on. According to the Buddha, this process doesn't even stop with death—it's like the habit transfers almost genetically to a new consciousness and body. But even within this life, we can see all these "births," or as the Buddha put it, birth—the same habit taking different forms. And each new birth is unsatisfactory too, because sooner or later we meet with another obstacle, another disappointment, another option in the ongoing merry-go-round. High-option cultures just give you a few more spins on the wheel.

In the Buddhist view, beings can liberate themselves from samsara by following the Buddhist path. For example, the Dalai Lama explains:

To attain liberation from samsara one must perfect the three higher trainings: self-discipline, meditative concentration, and the wisdom of emptiness. In a sense, the most important of these is the wisdom of emptiness; for when we understand the empty, non-inherent nature of the self and phenomena, the endless forms of delusion that arise from grasping at true existence are directly eliminated. However, in order for the training in wisdom to mature and become strong, one must first develop meditative concentration; and in order to develop and support concentration one should cultivate the training in self-discipline, which calms the mind and provides an atmosphere conducive to meditation. When one practices all three of these higher trainings and takes them to perfection, liberation from samsara is definite.

 

[apemon]

[MENTION=5383]Hazard[/MENTION] asked:


apemon can you describe the state of enlightenment you achieved?


That would be tough. All I can really say is it feels like I am expanding in a lot of ways. [MENTION=2578]Kgal[/MENTION] is older than I and is very wise as well. I found this recently and it seems to apply in many ways.

http://www.cedar-rivers.com/article...-symptoms-experiencing-the-higher-realms.html


My feeling side is stronger and more of the world has taken on that aspect. It is turbulent at times. "I am" slowly more present. The answers are all within us it seems.


If you have not read 'The New Earth' by Eckhart Tolle it is a very good treatment of ego and how it manifests. I have learned much from it and am on my second read. Enjoy the journey!

 

[Hazard]

The answers are all within us it seems.

This is what I meant when I meant when I said enlightenment comes from within rather than outside the self.

I can understand how letting go of the ideations of the self can be spiritual and fulfilling. I think that one has to fully understand the self and what exactly they're letting go of in order to do this. Would you disagree? Also isn't understanding the emptiness of the self really just understanding another aspect of your identity or even someone else's?

 

[apemon]

I remember at one point in the looking visualizing my brain and physically digging down into the folds. What you say feels right in many ways. I remember feeling at one point that much was outside (ego) and manifested anger and frustration in the world. ( again ego and attachment) Thus did i come to my dark night of the soul. After digging around my spirit guide and I have come to the conclusion that many things that happened in my life led to this. It seems Karma indeed may manifest here. I am not sure. Today (things can change quickly) I can describe as a surfer perhaps on a tall wave. Nothing behind and nothing ahead. I ride the board of time into the unknown lol

 

[sprinkles]

This is what I meant when I meant when I said enlightenment comes from within rather than outside the self.

I can understand how letting go of the ideations of the self can be spiritual and fulfilling. I think that one has to fully understand the self and what exactly they're letting go of in order to do this. Would you disagree? Also isn't understanding the emptiness of the self really just understanding another aspect of your identity or even someone else's?

I'd disagree. You can't really 'understand aspects' as a verb because if you're trying to understand yourself, you're not empty.

This is because there's nothing to really understand in emptiness. If there's something to actively understand, then it isn't empty, and you haven't actually changed anything. It's still another thing to hover around and cling to.

There's another type of 'understanding' where you know and are aware but are not attached. You don't have a drive or need to know, knowing is not a requirement, you just know.

We wouldn't be so adamant about self being an illusion just to turn around and contradict it by saying you need to understand yourself. Understanding yourself is the opposite of letting go of it. If you're trying to understand it, then you likely think it is still around and therefore nothing has changed.

 

[Hazard]

I'd disagree. You can't really 'understand aspects' as a verb because if you're trying to understand yourself, you're not empty.

This is because there's nothing to really understand in emptiness. If there's something to actively understand, then it isn't empty, and you haven't actually changed anything. It's still another thing to hover around and cling to.

There's another type of 'understanding' where you know and are aware but are not attached. You don't have a drive or need to know, knowing is not a requirement, you just know.

We wouldn't be so adamant about self being an illusion just to turn around and contradict it by saying you need to understand yourself. Understanding yourself is the opposite of letting go of it. If you're trying to understand it, then you likely think it is still around and therefore nothing has changed.

You would say introspection is purely a flawed endeavor then? That individuality is an obstacle and illusion?

 

[apemon]

You would say introspection is purely a flawed endeavor then?

I would say not. I have spent some time and here it is in brief for me :

I was raised multiculturally.
Father suicided when I was 16.
This threw me into arrested development.
I lived rather ascetically 'til 34.
Met and married ESFJ.
Submerged into collective pressures and attitudes 'til retirement 2 yrs ago.
Loss of ego identity and relational pressures- - - Dark Night of the Soul
Found excellent spirit guide and this group, realized I was not alone.
Threw myself into learning and improvement - clinical tests etc.
Somewhere in there near the end I was taken away and transformed.

I'm not sure but I am going to guess and say that acceptance of ourselves and truth, plus introspection and willingness to suffer are probably all important. That and following the path you FEEL is right for you. It is all about the truth and must be.

Godspeed my friend.

 

[sprinkles]

You would say introspection is purely a flawed endeavor then? That individuality is an obstacle and illusion?

Introspection isn't. Individuality isn't either, because you are individual. Trying to understand or be attached to it is the flawed endeavor.

Consider it to be like shikantaza, but turned inward. Shikantaza is a form of zazen where you sit and see the world without attachment. Things come to your senses but you do not judge them or cling to them, or even try to assemble them in any meaningful way. Through this you get to appreciate the actual workings of things without putting yourself into it - this comes to you on its own because you are part of the world and you don't have to actively work it.

This is the same as that, but turned inward.

 

[apemon]

[MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION] posted:

Introspection isn't. Individuality isn't either, because you are individual. Trying to understand or be attached to it is the flawed endeavor.

I really like this. Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if I had known many things before the now.

I live mostly in imagery and feeling these days. I got one the other day - feeling like riding the surfboard of time on a wave moving forward. Nothingness ahead and behind as well. Strange indeed. Perhaps something in that nothingness, perhaps not. I shall listen. Staying grounded is difficult at times.

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION] posted:


I really like this. Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if I had known many things before the now.

I live mostly in imagery and feeling these days. I got one the other day - feeling like riding the surfboard of time on a wave moving forward. Nothingness ahead and behind as well. Strange indeed. Perhaps something in that nothingness, perhaps not. I shall listen. Staying grounded is difficult at times.

Yeah it is. I still have a lot of attachments too so I wouldn't consider myself enlightened yet. Just more awakened to the possibilities and maybe having a taste of it now and then. Though now I'm much better at recognizing when I'm getting caught up and letting things run me, and realizing what I can do, what I can fix, and what I just have to accept.

It's also nice to get the feeling of oneness, like when I was in the park yesterday and kind of stopped being 'in the park' as a separate entity - there was no "this is me and this is the park". It feels very present and immediate, kind of blending with the landscape. I'm not just in the park, I'm part of it.