Bacon and eggs for breakfast and public relations

[Quiet]

So how did bacon and eggs become such a popular breakfast option? The answer is Edward Bernays and public relations.

Edward Bernays was Freud's nephew, who used his uncle's work and his own perceptions and skills to revolutionise the modern world through public relations in war and peacetime. Public relations is an old art but Edward Bernays is considered to be the father of the field.

The Beech- Nut Packing Company solicited Bernays' help to sell their bacon as it currently wasnt popular. Most people ate a light breakfast back then- toast and coffee etc, and eggs and bacon hadnt been received well.

Bernays devised an interesting 'round about' scheme to convince the public they should eat eggs and bacon.
He asked a medical doctor some questions about food and energy such as:

1. Does the human body expend energy in the night during sleep?
2. Does the human body need energy during the day to complete day-to-day tasks, labor, etc.?
2. Would it make sense to eat a hearty breakfast as opposed to a light breakfast in order to provide the body with energy?

The doctor agreed that in considering these terms a hearty breakfast could be beneficial.
Bernays than fowarded these questions to 5000 other doctors, 4500 of which agreed. This information was then published in the newspapers, and bacon and eggs was mentioned in the article as a hearty breakfast option.

Consequently bacon sales went up - after all the doctors were recommending it right?
And now bacon and eggs is accepted by many people as a popular breakfast.

Some more information
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

There are many thing in our lives and culture we take for granted but that are the result of public relations.

Any thoughts? More examples?

 

[christmas]

so this guy: http://www.warriordiet.com/

thinks that breakfast is a seriously bad idea.

i never want breakfast unless it's the weekend, so i stopped forcing myself to eat breakfast. i seem to have more energy.

 

[magister343]

From what I've read, the human metabolism during certain phases of sleep is actually much higher than while awake. It is dangerous for diabetics to go to sleep without eating something first to keep their blood sugar high enough. It takes quite a bit of energy to break down and reassemble proteins, so the body does this when otherwise inactive. Most of our muscle building happens during sleep (in response to wear and tear that happened while awake). Protein heavy meals are thus better later in the day.

The very act of waking up causes a drop in blood sugar, and being startled into wakefulness rather than waking up naturally causes blood sugar levels to go crazy. (There is a theory that the main reason diabetes has become so much more common in the past few decades is not because of diet, but because we have become more reliant on alarm clocks.) It probably is a good idea to eat something (or at least have some fruit juice) shortly after waking up in order to stabilize the blood sugar.

On the other hand, eggs are supposed to be full of the kind of protein that is easiest to digest and which prepare the body to better digest other proteins. If you are to have a protein rich breakfast, eggs are the way to go. You can skip the bacon.



Intermittent fasting has been shown to increase longevity, but it should be noted that it does so by slowing the metabolism. Slowing the metabolism slows the rate at which harmful metabolic byproducts like free radicals are produced, and makes it easier for the body to cleanse itself of them before they do their damage. A slower metabolism however also makes you feel less energetic and leads to weight gain. Fasting makes you live longer, but not necessarily better.



Edit: This post got me in the mood for eggs, which is pretty rare for me. I just got back to the computer after having orange juice and scrambled eggs for breakfast/lunch (whatever you call a first meal of the day eaten around 12:45pm).

 

[muir]

Bernays also got women smoking cigarettes by arranging for journalists to photo women he paid to be smoking during a protest march.

The journalists called them 'freedom sticks' so from then onwards women associted cigarettes with female liberation and empowerment. prior to that the cigarette had been viewed as a male symbol and a pretty phallic one at that.

Here's a good documentary about it: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-century-of-the-self/

 

[acd]

You should look into how diamonds became an engagement tradition in the west. It's pretty interesting.
My brother majored in Marketing and he told me about it.
In the early 20th century, people didn't really wear diamonds...
De Beers had a surplus of diamonds after mining an abundance of them somewhere in Africa and then their sales dropped.
They had to figure out how to sell them..
It was so bad for De Beers that they had to hire agencies to convince Hollywood actresses to wear diamonds.. in the hopes to start a fad.
They hired these guys to come up with an ad campaign. That's where the whole, "A diamond is forever" thing came from. It's one of the most
successful ad campaigns in history.

All of this sounds more like marketing than public relations. But I guess there is some overlap.
Public relations is more concerned with communication while marketing is more concerned with selling.
At least, ethical public relations people are more concerned with the quality and flow of communication between publics and organizations.

 

[Kgal]

Columbus discovered America and he was a hero for destroying the indigenous tribes and stealing their gold.

The Pope at that time declared the indigenous peoples "not human" - in writing - so they could be slaughtered or enslaved.

There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Cow's milk is good for you - even though in all the history of man no one has ever been seen sucking milk from a cow....[sorry...i get pissed at manipulation of the masses for the benefit of a few]

There is a helluva long list....

Let's see we were at war in Vietnam for something patriotic....Oh yes... we were preventing Communism. It was going to destroy us.

Another piece of bullshit I grew up with... Duck and Cover. We were supposed to be protected from a nuclear bomb by running into the hallways of school, covering our heads with our arms, and crouching down against the wall....Yeh right.

George Bush Jr. was a god fearing christian. That meant he wouldn't lie to the people and do what's right for our country - right?

Marijuana is a gateway drug and addicting and leads to all kinds of immoral behavior. 1938 Reefer Madness

Whew....I'm gotta get some pies in the face for this list I bet. :lol:

[video=youtube;r43W-bbotHM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r43W-bbotHM[/video]

 

[muir]

Columbus discovered America and he was a hero for destroying the indigenous tribes and stealing their gold.

The Pope at that time declared the indigenous peoples "not human" - in writing - so they could be slaughtered or enslaved.

There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Cow's milk is good for you - even though in all the history of man no one has ever been seen sucking milk from a cow....[sorry...i get pissed at manipulation of the masses for the benefit of a few]

There is a helluva long list....

Let's see we were at war in Vietnam for something patriotic....Oh yes... we were preventing Communism. It was going to destroy us.

Another piece of bullshit I grew up with... Duck and Cover. We were supposed to be protected from a nuclear bomb by running into the hallways of school, covering our heads with our arms, and crouching down against the wall....Yeh right.

George Bush Jr. was a god fearing christian. That meant he wouldn't lie to the people and do what's right for our country - right?

Marijuana is a gateway drug and addicting and leads to all kinds of immoral behavior. 1938 Reefer Madness

Whew....I'm gotta get some pies in the face for this list I bet. :lol:

[video=youtube;r43W-bbotHM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r43W-bbotHM[/video]

Great list!

Yeah the Columba myth is quite enduring!

Vikings artifacts have been excavated in the in the north of north america. A massive Chinese fleet explored the coast from the west and esoteric schools tell of communication with the Americas from ancient times.

Cocaine and tobacco which are obviously only found in the Americas have both been found in Egyptian mummies: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-mystery-of-the-cocaine-mummies/4od

It's possible the name 'America' might not have come from Amerigo Vespucci but rather from the name of a star in the west.

There's also the matter of pyramids being discovered all over the earth: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-revelation-of-the-pyramids/

 

[Lex Orandi]

I feel like getting flamed, so here we go:

The Spanish Inquisition:

The shortest summary:
-The Inquisition was started to ferret out crypto-Jews (i.e. Jews posing as Catholics and going to church)
-It had little to do with Protestants, since there were almost none in Spain

-The Inquisition was only briefly under the control of the Pope
-King Ferdinand of Spain used his wealth, influence, and power to threaten and manipulate the Pope
-Ferdinand used the Inquisition as a political tool

-Torture was used in only 2% of cases, and never for very long
-They used the rack, waterboarding, and whipped the soles of feet with reeds
-Confessions during torture were not considered valid; those tortured had to repeat their confessions the next day first
-It lasted from 1480-1834; during these 354 years, less than 5,000 people were executed
-They didn't use the iron maiden, thumbscrews, or other exotic torture methods; these were invented later by unscrupulous businessen or propagandists.

 

[muir]

Hitler wasn't just a lone nutter wreaking havoc as we are told in many history textbooks but was in fact hand picked by secret society members and was funded by industrialists and bankers both in Germany and without to act as a barrier to the rise of communism and to protect their corporate interests but they lost control of him (many of the following facts from Jim Marr's book 'Rule By Secrecy', which i think every American should read to know whats been happening to their country:

-Prescott Bush (father and grandfather to 2 american presidents and like them a member of Yale University's Skull and Bones secret society which is itself simply a chapter of the European illuminati society created in Bavaria which infiltrated Freemasonry) was one of the directors of the Union Banking Corporation (along with W.Averall Harriman, also a member of Skull and Bones, Council on Foreign Relations, Club of Rome and a powerful politician and was one of the main links between German business interests and Wallstreet in the run upto the second world war)

-IBM supplied the Nazis with the technology to record the names and details of jews detained in detention camps

-When Hitler lost an election in 1932 to Hindenburg 39 business leaders including the following families: Krupp, Bosch, Siemens and Thyssen petitioned Hindenburg asking that Hitler be made Chancellor of Germany. This deal was made at the home of banker Baron Kurt von Schroeder; also present at the meeting were Americans John Foster and Allen Dulles (banker, lawyer, diplomat and later head of the CIA andmember of the Council on Foreign Relations) of the New York law firm Sullivan and Cromwell, which represented the Schroeder Bank.

-The following year when Rosenburg went to England representing Hitler, he met with the managing director of the London branch of the Schroeder bank T.C.Tierks who was also the director of the bank of England. Throughout the war the Schroeder Bank acted as financial agents for Germany in the UK and USA.

-In return for funding Hitler as a bulwark against Communism, Hitler promised Schroeder (head of the J.H.Stein & Company banking house of Cologne) that ''National Socialism would engage in no foolish economic experiments''. In other words Hitler said he would not attack banking practices physically but only in rhetoric.

-A week after Hitler was made Chancellor the reichstag parliament building was burned down, which the Nazis blamed on the communists in order to justify the passing of the emergency 'enabling act' which allowed Hitler to take emergency control of germany and start suppressing any opponents.

-With the death of Hindenburg Hitler merged the office of Chancellor and President and proclaimed himself 'Commander in Chief'

-In 1934 agents of the Du Pont and Morgan corporations attempted to bring about a fascist coup in the USA, foiled by Major-General Smedley Butler; you can read a bit more about this on his wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

-Industrialist Henry Ford was a great inspiration to Hitler who particularly liked his anti-jewsih book called 'The International Jew', which in turn inspired Hitler's book Mein kampf. Ford funded the Nazis and was awarded the highest Nazi honour for a non German The Grand Cross of the Supreme Order of the German Eagle. Both Ford and Hitler railed against international jewish financiers such as the Rothschilds who they accused of seeking to bring about war in order to profit from it.

-Despite Hitler's criticism of the Rothschilds he continued to recieve financial support from England with its Rothschild dominated central bank, the Bank of England.
In 1924 a meeting took place in London between Hjamlmar Schact, the new Nazi Reich Commissioner for National Currency and Montagu Norman the govenor of the bank of england. To solve germanies desperate financial situation, Schact asked Norman to provide half of the capital for a new bank second to the reichsbank that would issue notes in pounds sterling as a way of affording economic collaboration between Germany and the British Empire. Within 48 hours Norman approved the loan at the extremely low interest rate of 5% as well as convincing a group of London bankers to accept bills far exceeding the loan.

-Max Warburg, a major German banker and his brother Paul warburg (who had played a major part in setting up the privately owned 'Federal' reserve bank) were directors of I.G.Farben the giant chemical making firm that produced Zyklon B gas used to murder jewish civilians. H.A. Metz of I.G.Farben was a director of the Warburg Bank of Manhatten, which later became part of the Rockefeller Chase manhatten Bank.

-The Rockefeller Standard Oil Company had been a central partner with I.G.Farben before the war.

-One I.G.Farben director was American C.E.Mitchell who was also director of the Federal Reserve bank and of Warburg's national City bank.

-The President of I.G.Farben in Germany was Herman Schmitz who served on the boards of Deutsche bank and the Bank for Internationl Settlements (this bank is still running today and is a club of international bankers who try to run the worlds economy through this organisation. Here's what wikipedia says about it:

The Bank for International Settlements (BIS) is an intergovernmental organization of central banks which "fosters international monetary and financial cooperation and serves as a bank for central banks."[SUP][2][/SUP] It is not accountable to any national government. The BIS carries out its work through subcommittees, the secretariats it hosts, and through its annual General Meeting of all members. It also provides banking services, but only to central banks, or to international organizations like itself. Based in Basel, Switzerland, the BIS was established by the Hague agreements of 1930. The name of the BIS in German: Bank f

 

[Lex Orandi]

Hitler wasn't just a lone nutter wreaking havoc as we are told in many history textbooks but was in fact hand picked by secret society members and...

Wasn't "Rule by Secrecy" written by Jim Marrs? The conspiracy theorist who wrote books on aliens? Not disputing anything you wrote, just saying...

 

[muir]

I feel like getting flamed, so here we go:

The Spanish Inquisition:

The shortest summary:
-The Inquisition was started to ferret out crypto-Jews (i.e. Jews posing as Catholics and going to church)
-It had little to do with Protestants, since there were almost none in Spain

-The Inquisition was only briefly under the control of the Pope
-King Ferdinand of Spain used his wealth, influence, and power to threaten and manipulate the Pope
-Ferdinand used the Inquisition as a political tool

-Torture was used in only 2% of cases, and never for very long
-They used the rack, waterboarding, and whipped the soles of feet with reeds
-Confessions during torture were not considered valid; those tortured had to repeat their confessions the next day first
-It lasted from 1480-1834; during these 354 years, less than 5,000 people were executed
-They didn't use the iron maiden, thumbscrews, or other exotic torture methods; these were invented later by unscrupulous businessen or propagandists.


View attachment 12265

Interesting one to bring up!

Of course the spanish inquisition only represents a small part of the wider inquisitions carried out by the roman catholic church or by secular authorities working with the RCC.

Methods could include anything from nailing people up in mock crucifictions, slow raosting over a fire (one tortured Templar showed a court a box containing the charred remains of the bones from his feet that had been slow raosted over a fire) and of course demise through burning at the stake.

Figures of deaths from various crusades eg Albigensian or witch hunts (not to mention crusades against the muslims) vary depending on the claimant but some say hundreds of thousands.

Interestingly jews lived harmoniously with muslims in muslim controlled Spain, where the cities became centres of learning.

The Roman catholic Church wasn't quite as open to older ideas and many ideas were driven underground and have manifested thorughout history in remarkable and often destructive ways. For example i mentioned Hitler in my post above and he was heavily influenced by occult mysteries.

Its a shame this stuff wasn't kept above ground in a freer and more open envrionment without all the need for secrecy and cloak and dagger activity. If this stuff was out in the open everyone can work through it, understand it and be less manipulated by it.

The Catholic Jesuits formed themselves along the lines of orders such as the Templars and Adam Weishaupt was heavily influenced by the Jesuits. He then set up the Illuminati by taking what he saw as the most potent aspect of each secret society and combining it into one eg the organisation of Freemasonry and the assassinations of the Ismaili Hashasheen (a method still regularly used today by the secret societies)

 

[muir]

Wasn't "Rule by Secrecy" written by Jim Marrs? The conspiracy theorist who wrote books on aliens? Not disputing anything you wrote, just saying...

Why don't you go by the facts?

If you want his opinion on other things then read those as a seperate issue and see what he has to say about government activity regarding those issues.

Concerning 'aliens' the catholic church believes in non human intelligences, lets call them 'angels' and 'demons' does it not?

That's a nice expensive, shiny telescope the Catholic Church built over there on Mt Graham in Arizona! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Advanced_Technology_Telescope)



What you vaticaners looking out for over there? Why are you watching space so much?

Aren't the RCC the people that punished galileo for saying the sun was at the centre of the universe and now they're watchin space all the time?

Not lookin out for aliens.....i mean angels or demons are they?

 

[muir]

How the guys currently crashing the US economy also put Hitler into power part 2

From Jim Marr's 'Rule By Secrecy':

Hingham called the international cabal of interconnected businessmen and bankers 'the Fraternity', linked by the 'ideology of Business as Usual....Bound by identical reactionary ideas, the members sought common future in fascist domination, regardless of which world leader might further that ambition'.

'Thus the bosses of the mutlinationals as we know them today had a six-spot on every side of the dice cube. Whichever side won the war, the powers that really ran nations would not be adversly affected'.

'When it was clear that Germany was losing the war the businessmen became notably more 'loyal'. Then, when the war was over the survivors pushed into Germany, protected their assets, restored Nazi friends to high office, helped provoke the Cold War, and insured the permanant future of the 'fraternity''.

-the Rockefellers Chase Bank in occupied paris conducted its business with full knowledge of the New York HQ

-Ford trucks were produced for the German army with home office approval

-Colonel Sosthenes Behn, head of International Telephone and Telegraph Corp. and director of national City bank, worked to improve Nazi telephone communications and produce fighter planes along with the V-1 buzz bomb

-All this was made legal by president Roosevelt who only 6 days after the attack on Pearl harbour granted a general licence, licensing any transaction or act proscribed by section 3(a) of the Trading with the Enemy Act, as amended, provided....that such transaction or act is authorized by the Secretary of the Treasury...pursuant to the executive Order No 8389, as amended. This meant that any business transaction could be made legal with the approval of Roosevelt's Secretary of the Treasury, henry Morgenthau, whose father helped found the Council on Foreign Relations.

-Much of the funds used to perpetuate the war came from the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), which was owned by the Morgan (widely considered an agent of the Rothschilds) affiliated First National bank of new York, the bank of england, Germanys Reichsbank, the Bank of italy, The Bank of france, and other central banks.

-US historian Prof. Carol Quigley said of the BIS that it was part of a plan 'to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole....to be controlled in a fuedalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences'

-The BIS came under the control of Hitler associates Kurt von Schroeder and Reichsbank president Hjalmar Horace greeley Schacht and vice president Emil Puhl. According to author Hingham the bank became a 'funnel for American and British funds to flow to Hitlers coffers and to help Hitler build his war machine'. The first president of the BIS was the Rockefeller banker Gates W.McGarrah, a former officer with Chase National Bank and The federal reserve bank as well as grandfather to future CIA director Richard helms.

-The patents for stainless steel were co-owned by Chemical foundation Inc, new York and krupp Company of Germany so US steel companies were bound to work with Krupp

-In 1942 a deal involving Karl Lindemann, Standard Oil's berlin representative; SS counterintelligence chief Schellenberg; banker Kurt von Schroeder and ITT head Behn, Hitler's government entered into a partnership with ITT.

-After Pearl harbour ITT supplied the German airforce with switchboards, telephones, alarm gongs, buoys, air raid warning devices, radar equipment and 30, 000 fuses a month for artillery shells used to kill British and American troopps (increased to 50,000 a month by 1944).

-ITT supplied the ingrediants for the rocket bombs dropped on London, selenium cells for dry rectifiers, high frequency radio equipment and fortification and fielf communication sets.

-prior to 1939 General Motors invested more than $30 million in German I.G.Farben plants although executives knew that half the percentage wage and salary payroll was being donated to the Nazis.

-germanys biggest manufacturers of armoured fighting vehicles were Opel, wholly owned by General Motors subsidiary contolled by Morgan interests, and the German subsidiary of Ford Motor Company

-Albert Speer said that Hitler would never have considered invading Poland without the synthetic fuel technology provided to germany by General Motors

-After the war US Justice Department Attorney James Stewart Martin arrived in Germany with an investigative team to sort out the tangled web of business dealings but was so obstructed in his efforts that he resigned but wrote about it in his book 'All Honourable Men' saying:

'We had not been stopped in Germany by German business. We had been stopped in Germany by American business. The forces that stopped us had operated from the United states but had not operated in the open. We were not stopped by law of congress, by an executive order of the president or even by a change of policy approved by the president....in short, whatever it was that stopped us was not 'the government'. But it clearly had command o channels through whoch the government normally operates. the relative powerlessness of governments...is of course not new....national governments have stood on the sidelines while bigger operators arranged the world's affairs'

There are many more examples of the role in which corporations played in the rise of the nazis and their activites. Included in this is the funding by international financiers.

As millions of people of various nationalities died in both world wars the same powerful families profited from the death. These families are still exercising power from behind the facade of government through various organisations such as the council on foreign relations.

This blurring of government and corporate interests is the essence of fascism and is antithetical to the idea of democracy which believs that the public should have a say in the running of their country and their communities.

This dynamic is the reason our countries have been in permanent war since WW2 and why our economies are ruined and top heavy with the top 1% owning more than 40% of the wealth.

This coporate dominance is the reason why we have so much unemployment in our countries, so much poverty, crime and environmental disaster and the reason we are now living in surveillance countries drifting towards totalitarian police states.

The various protest movements including recently the Occupy wallstreet movement and the Tea party are a reaction against these corporate fascists and why some people like Ron paul are calling for an end to the centrally controlled Federal reserve bank which is not federal at all but rather privately owned by international bankers.

The challenge of our time, as far as i see it, is how to win back democracy and freedoms and then enshrine them in a way that protects them in the future.

This requires an understanding of what is going on and the need for unity amongst the public against the corporate 1%. This resistance MUST be peaceful and by non-cooperation as violence just breeds violence.

As public anger rises due to the harsher economic environment created by these coporate fascists it is very important that the public do not allow themselves to be manipulated into taking out their frustrations on different racial or religious groups for example jews or muslims as has happened in the past. People must not lose sight of who has really caused all the hardship and that is the corporate interests and the families behind them.

These families need to be removed from power and brought to trial so that their activities can be fully investigated and so that they can be managed in such a way as to ensure they do not use violence against the people.

This can only happen with enough awareness among the public as the public ARE the economy. Without the efforts of the workers there is no economy. That means that ultimate power rests with the workers but only if they can coordinate their efforts.

Decentralisation of power is the best way to push power back to the people and that means ending such centralised monsters as the federal reserve bank.

[video=youtube;8y06NSBBRtY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY[/video]

 

[InvisibleJim]

Dude, not another fascist banker nazi us government conspiracy post. 6/13 muir vs rest of forum.

Have you ever considered channeling your energy into something more fruitful? Like feeding pigeons? Or curing the sick with the power of your mind?


....

water walking?

 

[muir]

[MENTION=3473]InvisibleJim[/MENTION] you meet my posts with constant ridicule, whilst offering nothing valuable to what is a serious discussion in a serious part of the forum (news and politics)

When that tactic fails you try to get me to shut up with further ridicule, but this time suggesting in an insulting way that i take up another pursuit!

Instead of trying to constantly stop the perspective that i am trying to offer why don't you go to another thread or one of the other parts of the forum if you don't like what is being discussed, or you could just skip past my posts?

 

[Jill Hives]

@InvisibleJim you meet my posts with constant ridicule, whilst offering nothing valuable to what is a serious discussion in a serious part of the forum (news and politics)

When that tactic fails you try to get me to shut up with further ridicule, but this time suggesting in an insulting way that i take up another pursuit!

Instead of trying to constantly stop the perspective that i am trying to offer why don't you go to another thread or one of the other parts of the forum if you don't like what is being discussed, or you could just skip past my posts?

Clearly he has more fun acting as though he is some how superior to you.

9_9

 

[muir]

I'm going to try and explain why I think some of the points i've been making are important and are worth discussing in the news and politics section even though they can be a little scary at times

This also ties into the thread because it relates to how PR is affecting the way that we all perceive the world

We all know the power of money. We all know that those with a lot of it are very powerful. Due to the attention caused to the issue by the Occupy Movement we also all have a better idea about the wealth distribution in our society in which the top 1% of the population now own over 40% of the wealth and far more wealth than the bottom 90% of society!

We all know that there are monumental events happening around the world.

We know our economies are struggling, chaos is enveloping parts of the world as the public are rising up against their governments eg: Greece, Spain, Portugal, Libya, Syria, Bahrain, Yemen, Egypt, Tunisia.

Coupled with those revolutions and protests are occupy movements around the world, increasing industrial strike action across the world, student protests across the world, the tea party movement

There is also the potential for outright conflict between countries for example with the Israel/Iran situation and the continued occupation of Afghanistan

In short there's some serious shit going on!

We've all learnt about major history events at school but we are now seeing monumental historic events unfolding in our own time, in front of our eyes. There are basically massive changes happening around the world.

These changes can seem distant at times when seen on the news but the economic hardship we are all feeling is all related to these events.

Further to this I believe that the economic situation is going to get worse in the west. Some people might accuse me of 'fear mongering' by saying that but it is the way i see it.

I think economic hardship can, if harsh enough, lead to a certain amount of chaos and confusion as civil unrest grows. The elites in the west fear this and that's why we have seen changes to our laws in recent years stripping away some of our freedoms and allowing greater surveillance of the public.

These acts are a reaction of the elites who are afraid that they are about to lose control of the public.

If disruption occurs then the public will be able to avoid much of the confusion that can result if they know: what is happening, why it's happening and who's causing it to happen.

A person that knows these things is better equipped to engage with events and also to make informed choices of how best to act in both their own interest but also in the interests of their community and the public as a whole.

That's why I'm discussing this stuff because i see the current situation as an emergency, albeit one which i believe can have a positive outcome for a well informed public.

I also think individuals who know whats going on will be psychologically better equipped to deal with the challenges ahead

To tie this into the thread i believe that the mainstream media is owned by the money men who have created this economic depression and they are using the media to hide the extent of the seriousness of events from the public.

 

[Lex Orandi]

Why don't you go by the facts?

If you want his opinion on other things then read those as a seperate issue and see what he has to say about government activity regarding those issues.

Concerning 'aliens' the catholic church believes in non human intelligences, lets call them 'angels' and 'demons' does it not?

That's a nice expensive, shiny telescope the Catholic Church built over there on Mt Graham in Arizona! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_Advanced_Technology_Telescope)

View attachment 12266

What you vaticaners looking out for over there? Why are you watching space so much?

Aren't the RCC the people that punished galileo for saying the sun was at the centre of the universe and now they're watchin space all the time?

Not lookin out for aliens.....i mean angels or demons are they?

Whoa, kind of an emotional response. All I said was that the guy wrote alien conspiracy theory books. He's also a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, too. That's well documented. Don't get mad at me for, as you say, "going by the facts" to judge his credibility.


Vatican Observatory:

Now, I've never been called a "Vaticaner," but I assume it's meant to be pejorative. Let's briefly go through this post. The Vatican Observatory is an observatory funded by the Holy See. The Church established it to show their support for science. I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here... should priests be forbidden from doing scientific research? Do you have any evidence that there's anything wrong with their research? That it's not peer reviewed? Jumping to conclusions or making implications like this only makes you appear hasty in your judgment (and thus more likely to accept the writings of some conspiracy theorist).


Angels, Demons, and Aliens:

The church allows for the possibility of angels, demons, and aliens, but they're separate concepts. Angels and demons are purely spiritual creatures that have no physical bodies. Aliens would be physical creatures that may or may not have spirits. I believe in the possibility of both. You might be surprised to learn that the Church actually says very little on whether they think aliens exist or whether angels and demons affect us in our day-to-day lives.




Galileo:

It's funny you bring up Galileo; that fits in nicely with this thread. First off, there were mainstream scholars who disagreed with both Galileo and the Church, Tycho being one of the most prominent. Second, you have to understand that all of this happened against a strong Christian cultural background; the Bible was taken very seriously (just as, at the same time, the Koran was taken seriously in the Middle East, the Hindu Scriptures in India, the Confucian classics in China and Korea, etc.), so just because it seems ridiculous today doesn't mean it was irrational back then. Just think how people 500 years in the future will laugh at our science.

The Church (more specifically, the Holy Office) did indeed overstep by restricting Galileo, but Galileo was not very wise in how he handled himself and as a result had few allies within and without the Church. Pope Urban, the second Pope during Galileo's life, actually favored Galileo's views, but Galileo for some reason decided to publish an arrogant and insulting book, even though it had been rejected for two years. He was somehow surprised that this landed him in hot water, and was eventually put under house arrest for this remainder of his days. He continued his research at his home.

 

[Lex Orandi]

Interesting one to bring up!

Of course the spanish inquisition only represents a small part of the wider inquisitions carried out by the roman catholic church or by secular authorities working with the RCC.

Methods could include anything from nailing people up in mock crucifictions, slow raosting over a fire (one tortured Templar showed a court a box containing the charred remains of the bones from his feet that had been slow raosted over a fire) and of course demise through burning at the stake.

Figures of deaths from various crusades eg Albigensian or witch hunts (not to mention crusades against the muslims) vary depending on the claimant but some say hundreds of thousands.

Interestingly jews lived harmoniously with muslims in muslim controlled Spain, where the cities became centres of learning.

The Roman catholic Church wasn't quite as open to older ideas and many ideas were driven underground and have manifested thorughout history in remarkable and often destructive ways. For example i mentioned Hitler in my post above and he was heavily influenced by occult mysteries.

Its a shame this stuff wasn't kept above ground in a freer and more open envrionment without all the need for secrecy and cloak and dagger activity. If this stuff was out in the open everyone can work through it, understand it and be less manipulated by it.

The Catholic Jesuits formed themselves along the lines of orders such as the Templars and Adam Weishaupt was heavily influenced by the Jesuits. He then set up the Illuminati by taking what he saw as the most potent aspect of each secret society and combining it into one eg the organisation of Freemasonry and the assassinations of the Ismaili Hashasheen (a method still regularly used today by the secret societies)

It doesn't sound like you read my post or any of the sources I put up. Those were all from secular researchers. Instead you vaguely mention "the wider inquisition" and bring up the old, tired legends of exotic tortures. Read some real research on this stuff, not just airport bookstore conspiracy theory novels. Most of these rumors were dispelled 50 years ago.

Also, the Templar and Illuminati...!? The Templar existed for 200 years and was dissolved 700 years ago... you know Dan Brown's books are fictional, right?

 

[InvisibleJim]

I certainly have a lot of fum pointing out tinfoil haterry which stops anyone else making any sort of decent contribution to the forum.

[MENTION=3240]Jill Hives[/MENTION] post quality and retired staff.

If people are allowed to drool endless off topic essays then Ill drool what I want in response.

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] you are assuming that skipping your posts is a zero sum game for other posters: Beatings will continue until morale/quality improves.