Avengers: Endgame *spoilers* | INFJ Forum

Avengers: Endgame *spoilers*

Discussion in 'Art, Entertainment, and Media' started by Gaze, Apr 28, 2019.

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  1. Gaze

    Gaze My word . . . hmm
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    Yep, watched it yesterday, and it was interesting. What did you think?

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  2. dragulagu

    dragulagu Truth does not change because it is, or is not. 42

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    It was a long movie without any bathroom breaks (damn you, cinema), but worth it, there weren't many slow moments anyway. They closed the ending well.

    I really like it how they closed off Captain America's chapter, it ended with what he wished for, a life with Carter. Not too sure about the new captain though, he's a cool guy but he's missing the rawness of the original Captain America. I liked the other endings as well (wonder if chub Thor will be coming back)

    They REALLY shat on the workings of quantum physics in this movie, bloody hell. Entering a quantum world to reverse macroscopic events?! That's not how quantum physics works. And the EPR Paradox is about "shared" states of 2 particles through a specific entangled (EPR) quantum state, it has nothing to do with time travel but rather about FTL communication - https://www.thoughtco.com/epr-paradox-in-physics-2699186 . That one has been proven though, somewhat. https://www.tudelft.nl/en/2018/tu-delft/delft-scientists-make-first-on-demand-entanglement-link/

    Curious about what's coming now after Endgame (it seems there will be a lot of Marvel series coming our way along with the movies).
     
  3. Ginny

    Ginny Displaced Naiad

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    I laughed, I cried, I left with a smile.

    Echoing the quantum rant, I was wondering why Nebula didn't die after killing her past self. I mean, grandfather paradox???

    Is there hope left for Loki? I know all the upcoming series will be prequels, but :sob:!!!
    Another question: did you also notice the boy at the ceremony, standing behind Bucky and Sam? Who is he?
     
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  4. Wyote

    Wyote Con Risa Absoluta
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    Overall I thought it was good. Kinda slow pacing until the end, but it was packed with interesting callbacks and perspective shifts which made it pretty impressive from a narrative standpoint. I wish the final fight spent a little more time on everybody, minor gripe though. The Thanos duels were pretty satisfying anyway, as was America's ass.

    Yeah that irked me but I'm sure they can explain it away somehow

    They sure focused on him for a good while
     
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  5. Ginny

    Ginny Displaced Naiad

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    Well, she was the good twin. Gamora is going to need someone to help her find her way back to the Guardians.

    Ah good, so I wasn't hallucinating :smile:
     
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  6. Wyote

    Wyote Con Risa Absoluta
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    That doesn't really have anything to do with the grandfather's paradox issue, but they do need her alive, plus she's cool
     
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  7. Ginny

    Ginny Displaced Naiad

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    I actually meant that it's a plot issue. Should have elaborated, sorry.
     
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  8. Wyote

    Wyote Con Risa Absoluta
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    Ah, it's related. I getcha!
     
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  9. dragulagu

    dragulagu Truth does not change because it is, or is not. 42

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    In regards to Nebula, there's one thing though that is mentioned in the movie by the ancient one when they are describing the time flow and that is also kind of the solution to the Grandfather paradox:

    When you return to the past and alter any event in it, you are creating a separate timeline from that point on, that timeline will have its own future. So for the Nebula in the past, a new timeline is created where she's killed and does not exist anymore. However, the Nebula that went from to past has her own timeline from where she came from, where she was still alive; she was never killed by another Nebula after all.

    Some Science stuff:
    In reality, everyone and everything has their own "worldline" which is the current/present/future of you described through spacetime. You are following along that line as your current self and there is only 1 world line for "you". Time travel, at least back in time, is not allowed by our current physics. This is because everything is limited by the speed of light, information has to go beyond the speed of light to revert time events as Einstein's equations state that the faster you travel towards the speed of light, the slower time will flow, traveling faster than the speed of light would theoretically revert time, but there is currently nothing that allows it (yeah not even you, black holes). So altering our own "worldline" by going back is currently not possible, sadly.

    There is one exception to this and that is the concept of and infinite amount of realities existing parallel to each-other where every possibility of "you" exists for every hour/minute/second/millisecond/planck second. But this is an extreme concept of multiple realities/dimensions which so far cannot be proven (fun theoretical concept though, would be cool if we could jump between multiple realities of ourselves in a flash).

    Couple sources:
    http://www.physics.org/article-questions.asp?id=131
    https://www.space.com/40716-time-travel-science-fiction-reality.html
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_line
     
  10. Wyote

    Wyote Con Risa Absoluta
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    Yea I just assumed it was some branching shit
     
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  11. dragulagu

    dragulagu Truth does not change because it is, or is not. 42

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    Good question/observation. I have no idea.
     
  12. Ginny

    Ginny Displaced Naiad

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    So you're saying I mistook the branching off timeline for the timeline that they were in, rather than the past that they created which followed them into the future that was corrected, and thereby any "past incarnation" of a person from the timeline which we follow was never able to have an effect on the "present selves" at all?
     
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  13. Wyote

    Wyote Con Risa Absoluta
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    Idk if any of you stayed through the whole credits, but the hammering sound at the very end of everything was also curious.
    I read that it was the sound of Tony Stark building his first suit, idk if that's accurate or not.
    Whether it means anything for the future or was just like an homage kind of thing, either way it was a nice touch.
     
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  14. dragulagu

    dragulagu Truth does not change because it is, or is not. 42

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    Eeeeeeehm....yep?! That's the whole take on the paradox, you have to accept that altering the past creates a new future rather than changing it. Else you'd be stuck in the paradox (you change the past, which changes the future, which then changes the past again, etc. etc.). Both the paradox and branching are possible, but for this movie, we'd go with the branching, for the plot's sake. :grin:

    I did not, friend said nothing came after it so we left :unhappy:
     
  15. Ginny

    Ginny Displaced Naiad

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    It was funny how expectant everyone was (or rather, those who hadn't left). It was rather obvious that there wouldn't be a post-credit scene, with how little they have to easter egg.
    I also heard some tibetan bowls ringing at the end, so it could be an homage to all/either avenger.

    I'm looking forward to learning what they are going to do next. There are six projects announced, some of which are sequels and prequels, but with Feige stepping down as "showrunner", I'm curious what the next big vision is if there is one. Or just the visionary for now would suffice.
     
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  16. Ginny

    Ginny Displaced Naiad

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    During the movie, I was thinking how changing the past was affecting not just the past but the present too, but it seems that like in some Doctor Who episodes the future/present was still in flux for the time that took to bring the stones back again. Although in DW there would have been an element of time catching up eventually, so that was where I was going...
    But as you said, the repercussions of playing with time in that fashion are not yet provable, so it might just as well be that the future/present would always be in the flux-state for as long as the stolen stones were in those spacetime coordinates.
     
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  17. dragulagu

    dragulagu Truth does not change because it is, or is not. 42

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    It's an interesting concept in regards to how events that you have altered as an observer/actor have an actual impact on to general flow of time events. Time eventually catching up could actually be pretty valiable (eg. even if you altered some events, the general outcome could still be the same, statistically). It's a very abstract but interesting concept. Cool input, did not think of it like that.
     
  18. Ginny

    Ginny Displaced Naiad

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    You gotta love the spoilery fandom sometimes :*

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. OP
    Gaze

    Gaze My word . . . hmm
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    Been trying to gather my thoughts for this. I had no idea what Endgame was supposed to be about when I went in. Hadn't read reviews or paid much attention the trailers. All I knew was that it was the follow up to Infinity War. So, it was pretty surprising the direction it took.

    The most surprising and interesting things were:

    • There was a time lapse of 5 years after the "event"
    • Hawkeye returned
    • Time travel, which was totally confusing
    • Tony had a family, became a homebody for a while
    • The Hulk found a balance between his two forms
    • Thor gained weight, but I hated the fat shaming
    • Character cameos who died or were not in recent films

    The biggest spoilers though were
    two major character deaths and one who left for good.

    What I didn't like which was the same issue I had with Infinity War, was that having too many superhero characters makes it tough to have good character development for many of the characters. I felt like some real interesting characters got sidelined. I hate that the only characters who got to have real personal lives outside the Avengers are Hawkeye, which we already knew, and surprisingly
    Tony and later on Captain America although we didn't really see it fully except in one romantic scene at the end
    .

    During the
    final battle scenes, there were some great action sequences especially when there was a scene of only women superheroes but that didn't last long. Some roles seemed like walk ons which was a great disservice to the popularity of the character at least for me.

    The movie was good, but it wasn't a solid A. I give it B+. Just way too many elements to balance.

    On the other hand, the kids in the audience where I saw the film were really into it, and there were quite a few moments of real awe and applause, so I think many would say it was an A+.
     
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  20. Ginny

    Ginny Displaced Naiad

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    They could easily have made a 4 hour movie of it and we still would have watched it. I knew a few things about it, but didn't spoil myself to anything by the time it came out.
    I knew that the movie was supposed to be a movie of its own, rather than just a "Part 2", so I was prepared for anything.
    With what I knew and what I've learned, I faded in and out of immersion, which had an effect on how much I felt with the characters.

    The thing is, I know how the Russos wrote the movie, and it was especially obvious in the way the scenes on Vormir were written.
    It is hard to write a movie with as many characters as the MCU has to give them all the justice they deserved. Therefore the main focus would naturally be on those that survived the Snap.
    I figured that with the battle being a focus in Infinity War, it wouldn't be as much in Endgame. There would be a reversed pace, the focus being on the first two thirds rather than the second.
    Due to an inadvertent spoiler, I knew about one of the deaths. It was the biggest disappointment in the "fandom".

    @Gaze what you think about Thor's treatment may not be quite as you saw it - I have a different take on it based on who and why.

    In screenwriting, there's a reason for everything, even cutbacks.
     
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