are you a free spirit or have you dated one?
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I think that just as many, if not way more artists and dreamers, are very much trapped.
By your definition I would be a free spirit. [MENTION=1669]pics[/MENTION] what would a normal non free spirit be though? Someone who actively seeks to be attached to things and expectations? It's hard for me to imagine that being desirable or something that most people strive for. Also, why do you see it as something a person "uses" (to avoid commitment etc) instead of something that they inherently are? In that case you would be referring to a fake persona.
By your definition I would be a free spirit. [MENTION=1669]pics[/MENTION] what would a normal non free spirit be though? Someone who actively seeks to be attached to things and expectations? It's hard for me to imagine that being desirable or something that most people strive for. Also, why do you see it as something a person "uses" (to avoid commitment etc) instead of something that they inherently are? In that case you would be referring to a fake persona.
Gaze
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My definition of free spirit was tentative. It's a general description to start the discussion. If someone is a free spirit, I was curious how they would see themselves in comparison to everyone else.
Lark
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I would characterise myself as a free spirit, most definitely, or at least I regard it as an aspirational state. I think that humankind has an innate psychological drive towards freedom but it can give rise to emotional and psychological conflicts, freedom isnt all a bed or roses, it does involve managing commitments, expectations, consequences and responsibilities. A lot of other people have abdicated their freedom, personally, culturally and structurally the fear of freedom or escape from freedom is patterned upon people and the world.
A lot of people who are supposedly "free spirits" are engaging in their own personal or culturally patterned fear of freedom and escapes from freedom, they develop personality types which are marketing, exploitative, authoritarian personality types, may eventually degenerate into necrophilious types and if you're not too worried about the video nasty side of it a good example of that exists in the characters in the original Last House on The Left movie, a bunch of exploitative types escalate to sex offending and murder, its pretty sick but its a good example of what I'm talking about.
Gaze
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I think my interest in the "free spirit" includes a better understanding and appreciation for them. Since my personality and background was quite "restrained" 
, growing up I never had the freedom to do whatever I wanted, explore my own freedom until later than most, so I guess that's why I find free spirits intriguing and puzzling. I am a little envious of their ability to go with the wind but also feel a little cheated by their tendency to not be accountable to anyone. I think they reflect a part of me that didn't have the chance to be free yet. But there are those who abuse this freedom as [MENTION=4115]Lark[/MENTION] mentioned. Being free spirit doesn't mean that the free spirit is respectful of other's wants, needs, or desires. Sometimes, they pay attention to their needs alone and ignore the needs or feelings of others, even of those they care about.
, growing up I never had the freedom to do whatever I wanted, explore my own freedom until later than most, so I guess that's why I find free spirits intriguing and puzzling. I am a little envious of their ability to go with the wind but also feel a little cheated by their tendency to not be accountable to anyone. I think they reflect a part of me that didn't have the chance to be free yet. But there are those who abuse this freedom as [MENTION=4115]Lark[/MENTION] mentioned. Being free spirit doesn't mean that the free spirit is respectful of other's wants, needs, or desires. Sometimes, they pay attention to their needs alone and ignore the needs or feelings of others, even of those they care about.
Lark
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I think my interest in the "free spirit" includes a better understanding and appreciation for them. Since my personality and background was quite "restrained"
No, that's a kind of egomanical disorder that.
Its the mirror of the neurotic need for affection, popularly known as the "disease to please", Fromm talks about that sort of unselfishness as pathological and that it caused all kinds of crisis, emotional conflicted states resulting in psychosomatic illness because the internal script of someone like that involves pleasing others but not understanding why they are not more grateful than they are.
The egomanical disorder would have similar hang ups, how to get others to appreciate your greatness, Fromm said it was linked to sado-masochistic personality structures and he questioned whether there was such a thing as sadism or masochism as seperate pathological personality types, people were either more one than the other but even the most sadistic person is dependent upon the object of their sadistic tendencies, if that object dies or is otherwise to disappear the sadist is going to struggle until they can find a substitute. They arent free.
Erlian
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I consider myself to not be a free spirit at all. I think freedom is overrated. It's important, but overrated. I'd rather be attached to something that makes me happy (read: girlfriend.. >_<) than to be free in the void.
I want to depend on someone and someone to depend on me. Maybe it's because during my youth I've been extremely free in everything, but never really used that freedom a lot. My parents never forbade me anything. They advised me strongly to not do stupid shit and explained why I shouldn't. It wasn't ever punished. Possibly also because I never gave them a reason to punish me. I was way too boring and nice etc
I've dated a free spirit and I can't stand it. She was way too random in her behaviour. I need the security of future.
I wonder how the N/S/J/P stuff relates to this. I very much have an N way to see things, but the values I uphold are often attributed to an S type: Traditional, direct, concrete, averse of unnecessary change, security, predictability.
Also I'm not sure what of that relates to J rather than S. Statistics show (I could find the source if you like) that S and J correlate and so do N and P. Being an NJ type is thus conflicting on some parts and I do notice that.
I'd say you could see that free spirit in two ways. The values one has: A free spirit would likely be quite progressive and idealistic.
Or the way one wants to have relationships: With more freedom and less attachment.
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I think your values might be better categorized as J type.I consider myself to not be a free spirit at all. I think freedom is overrated. It's important, but overrated. I'd rather be attached to something that makes me happy (read: girlfriend.. >_<) than to be free in the void.
I want to depend on someone and someone to depend on me. Maybe it's because during my youth I've been extremely free in everything, but never really used that freedom a lot. My parents never forbade me anything. They advised me strongly to not do stupid shit and explained why I shouldn't. It wasn't ever punished. Possibly also because I never gave them a reason to punish me. I was way too boring and nice etc
I've dated a free spirit and I can't stand it. She was way too random in her behaviour. I need the security of future.
I wonder how the N/S/J/P stuff relates to this. I very much have an N way to see things, but the values I uphold are often attributed to an S type: Traditional, direct, concrete, averse of unnecessary change, security, predictability.
Also I'm not sure what of that relates to J rather than S. Statistics show (I could find the source if you like) that S and J correlate and so do N and P. Being an NJ type is thus conflicting on some parts and I do notice that.
I'd say you could see that free spirit in two ways. The values one has: A free spirit would likely be quite progressive and idealistic.
Or the way one wants to have relationships: With more freedom and less attachment.
Gaze
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The same. Although I am NXP, I prefer consistency, security, and stability, something which free spirits I've met tend to miss or devalue. I would sometimes wonder if I'm a J for this reason. I prefer planning even if things change over simply going with the flow, and not know what I'm doing. The free spirit is here one minute and off the next. They fly by the seat of their pants. Maybe because they know nothing is certain or guaranteed, it's easier for them to living moment to moment than make long term plans or commitments. But its tough for me, because I need to know I can depend on the person, and still appreciate their free spirit. I don't want them to lose that part of themselves but realize the potential for something good if they don't keep running away from attachment. I prefer attachment any day. I don't feel imprisoned by it, although a free spirit generally does.
Delta
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I'm not sure sure what I am but think probably I am a free spirit. As such I suppose I don't have many negative views of what that means. To me it just means I am separate to expectations of me, whoever or wherever they may come from. Expectations are my arch enemy.
Not done much dating in the formal sense to have much of interest to compare there; I used to be a bit rubbish at picking men.
I don't like to see people being repressed or repressing themselves and think of cruelty as a form of repression as people are often acting on base desires which I consider a form of bondage rather than freedom. So I guess I take the spirit part of the term very literally.
I don't see people who are gobby twats as free. Can't stand to be around that. You know the type, the ones to always have contrary, cold opinions in the face of human hurt or disaster. The ones who for some reason become popular or gain positions of power easily.
Idk, even in marriage I don't expect my husband to wear a wedding band. I respect his freedom too much.
Not done much dating in the formal sense to have much of interest to compare there; I used to be a bit rubbish at picking men.
I don't like to see people being repressed or repressing themselves and think of cruelty as a form of repression as people are often acting on base desires which I consider a form of bondage rather than freedom. So I guess I take the spirit part of the term very literally.
I don't see people who are gobby twats as free. Can't stand to be around that. You know the type, the ones to always have contrary, cold opinions in the face of human hurt or disaster. The ones who for some reason become popular or gain positions of power easily.
Idk, even in marriage I don't expect my husband to wear a wedding band. I respect his freedom too much.
Gaze
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[MENTION=12070]Delta[/MENTION] - I also am just realizing why expectations are tough for free spirits. I always took for granted that it was fair and reasonable to have expectations of those who say they love you and who you love in return. It never occurred to me until recently that expectations = obligations. And so, this means people don't want to feel as if their efforts are forced, or have to do what others want them to do as a matter of requirement to be with the person. The free spirit probably feels they can't experience real freedom or acceptance if they're required to live up to someone else's expectations. Or maybe there's a fear that once expectations are set, that those expectations may be too high, and they're not likely to meet them.
Delta
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Idk, I don't have anything clever to say. I'm not super over stimulated and in need of excitement all the time but don't like being hemmed into a role. The spontaneity of love can take a kicking through lifes challenges and too high an expectation can cloud things unnecessarily. Tit for tat can easily replace love if one is not careful.
I've found there is much transferred in simple actions more than in watching obligations. Plus it is more fun x
Erlian
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I dated a girl once who was definitely more of a free spirit than I was. She repeatedly told me to not have any expectations. I was like: "What? No expectations? That's impossible!"
I thought whatever you do I'm going to have expectations of your behaviour, simply because I like to think about the future. If she tells me she doesn't want to date me again I expect her to not want to date me and that she doesn't like me. If she keeps dating me, we keep kissing and cuddling I expect her to like that and to continue with that. She just said 'don't have expectations'. I couldn't do that. I'm going to have positive, negative, neutral or any other expectations. They're all expectations and I'm going to have them...
She didn't even really like to have too much friends, because she felt she was obliged to see friends at least once a month. She didn't want that obligation.
I'll gladly admit to obligations and expectations. That's why I don't want to date extreme free spirits.
Heck I even expect my future spouse to expect me to wear a wedding band
( [MENTION=12070]Delta[/MENTION] )To me it shows that she cares about me.
I want my future spouse to have expectations and I want to exceed them.
ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc
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so... a selfish flake?
Delta
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[MENTION=12103]Erlian[/MENTION], Well, I do understand what you are saying but still don't see the point in focusing on obligations or expectations as a sign of love. Obligations are always there anyway and by nature I fulfill and exceed them because I am wired like that. Hence I haven chosen someone similar. Someone doing things freely is the only way in my mind I can respect them enough to make a home with them. People wear rings and still cheat, people do all manner of things in the name of love but have no love... really they just don't want to be alone or are in love with the idea of being in love. First child, first problem and they internalise their own needs and the love gets lost. Waste of time.
My husband likes tradition but idk, he just accepts how I am.
I've had the opposite and it was horrid. No way would I have married him.
I think people kid themselves a lot and make themselves unnecessarily miserable via false expectations. I mean if you are already doing something, there is no need to worry.
My husband likes tradition but idk, he just accepts how I am.
I've had the opposite and it was horrid. No way would I have married him.
I think people kid themselves a lot and make themselves unnecessarily miserable via false expectations. I mean if you are already doing something, there is no need to worry.
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sprinkles
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Yes, I'm free and I mostly prefer to be left alone.
Do I ignore others wants and desires? A lot of times yes. Who are they to impose such things on me? It's not like I go and hang out with them, live in their house, and eat all their food for fucks sakes. If they weren't in my face and trying to be in MY life they wouldn't have to worry about being disappointed! I don't ask anyone for anything! Who is the selfish one?
Somebody comes looking for a relationship with me which I didn't ask for and then it's MY fault that I don't play by THEIR rules? BULLSHIT! Who came over and started trying to run me? I didn't go to you, you came to me!
Do I ignore others wants and desires? A lot of times yes. Who are they to impose such things on me? It's not like I go and hang out with them, live in their house, and eat all their food for fucks sakes. If they weren't in my face and trying to be in MY life they wouldn't have to worry about being disappointed! I don't ask anyone for anything! Who is the selfish one?
Somebody comes looking for a relationship with me which I didn't ask for and then it's MY fault that I don't play by THEIR rules? BULLSHIT! Who came over and started trying to run me? I didn't go to you, you came to me!
ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc
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