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Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by wolly.green, Nov 8, 2019.

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  1. OP
    wolly.green

    wolly.green Community Member

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    These arguments don't work either.

    You say we are attracted to flowers and animals all over the world because they have 'morphological and behavioural similarities to species from our own natural habitat. But this doesn't make sense. How would this increase the rate of reproduction of our genes? If we evolved to be attracted to certain features that exist in all kinds of environments all around the world, including uninhabitable ones, why should we believe this will improve our inclusive fitness? Developing an attraction to individuals of our own species or species that directly benefit us is something different.

    Indeed you are correct that just because certain behaviors are not exhibited, does not mean they did not evolve. But the absence of said behavior does cast doubt. Anyway, this example is not even relevant. You said we evolved to find flowers attractive because they are a good indication of a healthy environment suitable human habitation. But so are the roots, trunks and leaves of a tree. We consistently and reliably write: songs, poems, and stories about flowers. Draw, paint and sculpt flowers on a regular basis. We even pick and bundle flowers into bouquets and give to give as presents to our loved ones. But we do no such thing with roots, trunks and leaves. We rarely ever -- but not never -- write poems about trunks, compose songs about leaves and make beautiful paintings of roots. Not so with flowers. This can't be a coincidence! There must be an explanation beyond evolution for our reliable attraction to flowers.
     
    #21 wolly.green, Nov 8, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019 at 3:57 AM
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  2. Hostarius

    Hostarius Magniloquent Malapert

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    That's more to do with the inconvenience of giving your bae a treetrunk for Valentines, than anything about their inherent beauty.

    Trees have been worshipped and admired for millennia, too, and I'm sure that if I carved my love a chair from a treetrunk she'd be equally delighted.


    However, I have to say that the rest of your post is filled with glaring logical errors and you're making my brain hurt. I haven't slept very much, but I'll return to this conversation tomorrow if you don't mind the tone of my posts here (I'm being a bit blunt - are you OK with this? I still think you're a cool and interesting guy, of course, and I enjoy your topics).
     
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  3. OP
    wolly.green

    wolly.green Community Member

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    Well what are the logical errors?

    Also, I didn't say that tree trunks are never "worshiped". That isn't the point I was trying to make. Maybe going for a sleep will help.
     
    #23 wolly.green, Nov 8, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
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  4. John K

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    Well again, I'm not really making an argument as such - just an observation that some of the things we experience seem to be independent of the mechanisms of our perception, while others seem to be partly constructed by it. On balance, beauty seems to me to be in the latter category but I'm open minded and willing to change my view on this - would like to even. For example showing me an objective way of detecting beauty and measuring it in a consistent and reproducible way, independent of any particular observer, would be one way of persuading me - though there may be other less stringent ways that I don't conceive of that would appeal to me if they were presented to me.
     
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  5. OP
    wolly.green

    wolly.green Community Member

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    I doubt beauty can be measured. It isn't a scientific theory, its a philosophical proposition. And philosophical propositions can't be observed. They can only been argued for and criticized. Just because you can't observe it though, does not mean it doesn't exist. Beauty is probably more like a mathematical truth. With mathematics, you can't observe it, test it or experiment on it. But we know its truths exist. When you ask for reproducible means to observe beauty, I believe you are asking for the wrong thing. We are not dealing with a scientific theory here. We are dealing with abstract entities, much like mathematical theorems.
     
    #25 wolly.green, Nov 9, 2019 at 2:22 AM
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019 at 3:58 AM
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  6. Maikl Jexocuha

    Maikl Jexocuha Community Member

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    When I see a Rose I approach it. When I see the flowers of the Nightshade, I run.
     
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  7. OP
    wolly.green

    wolly.green Community Member

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    Wat?
     
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