[PUG] All Emotional Pain Lasts 12 Minutes.

[sassafras]

Note: Please read entire post before responding.

I've seen this floating around lately and I thought I might bring it to your attention:

I don't know what the whole 12 minutes thing is about, since I haven't been able to find any article or source to support the claim (really, it does sound like somebody just randomly pulled that time-frame out of their ass) but it does raise some interesting questions.

Where does raw emotional pain end and where do our own unique psychologies exacerbate on the reaction? Is it ever an exacerbation? Does true emotional pain exist without the trappings of individual psychology? What decides our capacity for and vulnerability to the effects of emotional pain? What are your reactions to this poster?

Barring the whimsy twelve-minute claim, do you agree or disagree with this statement?

Discuss!

 

[Kmal]

i think 12 minutes may be arbitrary, but a lot of emotional pain is caused by your own mind. the point of this seems to want you to take responsibility for your own emotions.
'pain is a fact; misery is an option' is relevant.

Where does raw emotional pain end and where do our own unique psychologies exacerbate on the reaction?

Raw emotional pain? Do animals mourn when their kin die?

 

[Arsal]

I guess next time someone in my family dies, I'll make sure to be sad for exactly 12 minutes. Anything longer that that is clearly self-inflicted, as demonstrated by this highly informative text graphic.

 

[Gaze]

Interesting theory. I wonder if it's a psychological self protect mechanism where the mind will only allow you to feel particular kinds of emotional stress for a period of time because anything longer will create increase despair or possibly cause severe psychological stress and damage. That would make sense. And any additional stress is something we place on ourselves by the natural human feelings of not having control over a circumstance or how something affects us.

For example, I worry A LOT! But I notice that this is because I care about a ton of things, sometimes too much, so when I experience any emotional pain, I tend to stew in fear and indulge in my emotions for a long period of time, but then if I tell myself it's ok to feel the pain, and that it's normal or natural, or that it's ok to suffer or struggle with it, then there is a sense of relief which I feel after a while. And then it doesn't stress me as much anymore. But if I deny the pain, or feel guilty about it, or fall into self loathing, then this makes it much easier to grovel in it, increasing psychological distress.

 

[Kmal]

I guess next time someone in my family dies, I'll make sure to be sad for exactly 12 minutes. Anything longer that that is clearly self-inflicted, as demonstrated by this highly informative text graphic.

dont worry about this graphic. you can suffer for longer than 12 minutes if you want to.

 

[sassafras]

i think 12 minutes may be arbitrary, but a lot of emotional pain is caused by your own mind. the point of this seems to want you to take responsibility for your own emotions.
'pain is a fact; misery is an option' is relevant.

*nod*

Raw emotional pain? Do animals mourn when their kin die?

I don't know. I don't think anyone knows. Emotional pain is entirely subjective, isn't it? We can observe physiological changes in the brain, perhaps, but emotional pain can only be described and therefore confirmed by the individual or creature experiencing it.

I guess next time someone in my family dies, I'll make sure to be sad for exactly 12 minutes. Anything longer that that is clearly self-inflicted, as demonstrated by this highly informative text graphic.

Sure, if you simply want to take the graphic entirely at face-value (though I wouldn't recommend it). I was hoping for some discussion, though

Interesting theory. I wonder if it's a psychological self protect mechanism where the mind will only allow you to feel particular kinds of emotional stress for a period of time because anything longer will create increase despair or possibly cause severe psychological stress and damage. That would make sense. And any additional stress is something we place on ourselves by the natural human feelings of not having control over a circumstance or how something affects us.

For example, I worry A LOT! But I notice that this is because I care about a ton of things, sometimes too much, so when I experience any emotional pain, I tend to stew in fear and indulge in my emotions for a long period of time, but then if I tell myself it's ok to feel the pain, and that it's normal or natural, or that it's ok to suffer or struggle with it, then there is a sense of relief which I feel after a while. And then it doesn't stress me as much anymore. But if I deny the pain, or feel guilty about it, or fall into self loathing, then this makes it much easier to grovel in it, increasing psychological distress.

You know, that's a very good point: most of the 'self-inflicted' portion of our emotional pain is really just the negative, shaming emotions we experience in reaction to the idea of emotional pain itself.

The sooner you allow yourself to experience emotional pain, openly and safely, the easier it is to deal with it. It really does boil down to the should's and shouldn't's that we place upon ourselves and how much that traps us into thinking that we're doing something wrong.

Interestingly enough, this extends to and reminds me of the very old saying that depression really is repressed and inwardly-turned anger. The lack of a healthy outlet, coupled with some sort of a shaming factor, is perhaps what prolongs the negativity that festers and eventually burrows itself into the subconscious, affecting the brain's functioning long-term.

Hmm...

 

[DimensionX]

You also can't rule out environmental factors for example an psychological experiment was conducted where parents were to laugh when they were upset and cry when they were happy. The children grew up and naturally adopted that way of emoting so that when they were sad and upset they would laugh and when they were happy they would cry (or something similar to that extent). If you are raised in an environment where the people around you are devastated by the smallest things, you learn to react in the same manner just like some children learn to control other children physically because that's what their parents do to them instead of trying to talk about it.

I wouldn't take the image literally but I would say that it does raise a good point that although it's OK to express ones emotions we shouldn't let it continue to a point where it becomes physically or emotionally detrimental where it runs the risk of becoming a natural go to depressive cycle/habit.

I met a girl at university who was quite possibly one of the most unhappy people I've ever met, she didn't seem to have any reason to be this way either which was quite puzzling however something I noticed was she had a pattern of behaviour where she would say something was really saddening and depressing in order to socialise with those around her, she couldn't seem to just socialise normally and because of this looking at pretty everything around her in an extremely pessimistic mindset became her normal way to behave and it became further rewarded because not only did it help her with talking to others but she would get comfort and care because people around her saw her as extremely depressed and lonely and she just sucked it all up.

I believe that our mindsets do indeed have a bearing on how much pain we feel and it's demonstrated quite regularly in everyday life, we're told to look away when we're getting a shot, parents often tell their child who falls "oh come on now, that didn't hurt silly" to in a way condition them to not make a big deal out of minor painful events and over time I've become conditioned to an extent that even watching 30 seconds of an Adam Sandler film makes me want to confess any and all secrets so that the pain will stop.

I think something we should also think about is how difficult is it to break a certain mentality so that we can try to change certain behaviours that are detrimental to ourselves in the long term.

 

[Faye]

So if a family member dies, you have 12 minutes to mourn and then need to get over it?

This is the stupidest thing ever. Blaming people for emotional pain is tantamount to blaming them for physical pain, especially if they are suffering from any kind of anxiety, depressive or other disorder. Your neurochemical state determines the nature and extent of your sense of self, so even if your psychological pain is 'self-inflicted', that does not necessarily mean that the person has control over what they are doing to themselves.

The horrible thing is that some people who see this will believe it.

 

[Kmal]

So if a family member dies, you have 12 minutes to mourn and then need to get over it?

This is the stupidest thing ever. Blaming people for emotional pain is tantamount to blaming them for physical pain, especially if they are suffering from any kind of anxiety, depressive or other disorder. Your neurochemical state determines the nature and extent of your sense of self, so even if your psychological pain is 'self-inflicted', that does not necessarily mean that the person has control over what they are doing to themselves.

The horrible thing is that some people who see this will believe it.

[MENTION=834]Dragon[/MENTION] dont give people excuses to not have control over themselves. whether or not they want to control themselves is the question.

emotional pain is a fact-- to cause yourself to be miserable is another thing. immediate reactions are a little bit harder to control; however, after you've had time (not 12 minutes, its different for everyone. though, minimizing this time is a good exercise) to think through it, it's time to let go.

 

[Arsal]

Sure, if you simply want to take the graphic entirely at face-value (though I wouldn't recommend it). I was hoping for some discussion, though

Alright, for starters:

1. What is emotional pain?
2. Could it be a physiological phenomenon?
3a. Are there varying degrees of emotional pain? What constitutes strong emotional pain, and what mild emotional pain?
3b. Is the longevity of said emotional pain proportional to the degree at which it affects the individual?

I believe the criteria for pain is entirely subjective based on environmental factors, parenting, genetic code, cognitive preferences, experiences, etc. I do not believe it's a choice, nor do I believe emotional pain needs to be rationalized in order to be understood. In my experience, pain is largely out of one's control, and if it isn't, then it's not pain and we're not talking about the same thing. What we can control however, is the people and environment we choose to surround ourselves with, but even then it's not necessarily under one's control because there's only so many situations you can choose to remove yourself from.

If someone tells me I shouldn't be in pain because it is my personal choice to be in pain then it's a missed opportunity to punch them in the face.

 

[sassafras]

So if a family member dies, you have 12 minutes to mourn and then need to get over it?

Indeed, the vagueness of this slogan does leave a lot to be desired and does give the impression that you have an x-amount of time on the clock to mourn and heal. But it's interesting that we automatically jump to the conclusion that all 'self-inflicted' emotional pain must be bad and therefore must be eliminated entirely.

This is the stupidest thing ever. Blaming people for emotional pain is tantamount to blaming them for physical pain, especially if they are suffering from any kind of anxiety, depressive or other disorder.

True, there is blame... which is accusatory and negative. Then there is awareness, which can be wielded as either a weapon or as a point of healing.

The way that I interpreted this piece was that we are still in part responsible for our reactions and emotions. That's not to say that we must be in total, rigid control of everything we do or feel, or to pepper ourselves with 'should's' and 'shouldn't's' but rather to understand that we are not always and entirely at the mercy of what feel. Emotional pain isn't something that can measured or judged or even controlled as it happens; however, as it begins to wane, we can consciously allow ourselves more and more opportunities to heal.

Your neurochemical state determines the nature and extent of your sense of self, so even if your psychological pain is 'self-inflicted', that does not necessarily mean that the person has control over what they are doing to themselves.

Agreed. Though I personally believe that a person's emotions/thoughts and neurological make-up are a two-way street. One reinforces the other. It's never so simple as to say: Just Get Over It, just as it is never as hopeless as to say: I Can't Win.

The horrible thing is that some people who see this will believe it.

Indeed. I really hope no one takes it like that. Here's hoping that most of them sit down for a second and consider this a little more thoroughly.

 

[Arsal]

Btw, emotional pain: negative emotional reaction to certain situations, based on one's predisposed nature, preferences, expectations and/or past experience. (Not exhaustive; only for reference.)

 

[sassafras]

1. What is emotional pain?

The experience of a stifling wave of negative thoughts and feelings in response to inner or outer stimuli. Hopelessness.

2. Could it be a physiological phenomenon?

Emotion itself is an entirely subjective experience, though we can observe some physiological symptoms that closely correlate with what we're feeling. We can also observe what parts of the brain light up when we're experiencing a certain emotion.

Emotions aren't divorced from our physical selves; they can spike blood pressure and hormone levels; deplete or increase the number of neurons fired by certain neurotransmitters; affect the digestive process, etc. The reverse is also true. Sometimes our physiological states affect the emotions we experience. Fatigue makes it that much harder for us to be happy, even when good things come our way, for instance, and the majority of women will tell you that they have no ducking clue what the hell is up with their moods when they're pre-menstrual.

3a. Are there varying degrees of emotional pain? What constitutes strong emotional pain, and what mild emotional pain?

It's different for everyone, I think. It's entirely individual, and also largely dependent on all the outside factors you've listed.

3b. Is the longevity of said emotional pain proportional to the degree at which it affects the individual?

Now this is a very interesting question. I'm tempted to say yes, but then, I think about how other psychological factors may come into play that might have absolutely nothing to do with the root or experience of the emotional pain itself. [MENTION=2308]DimensionX[/MENTION] mentioned a friend who appeared to have adopted a pathology as a strategy to interact in her social circle and it made me think of people who use their emotions as a currency to control others, either consciously or subconsciously. I don't mean this quite the insensitive way it sounds, but where does the actual emotional pain stop and where does an unhealthy crutch for an entirely separate issue begin?

I believe the criteria for pain is entirely subjective based on environmental factors, parenting, genetic code, cognitive preferences, experiences, etc.

*nod*

I do not believe it's a choice, nor do I believe emotional pain needs to be rationalized in order to be understood. In my experience, pain is largely out of one's control, and if it isn't, then it's not pain and we're not talking about the same thing. What we can control however, is the people and environment we choose to surround ourselves with, but even then it's not necessarily under one's control because there's only so many situations you can choose to remove yourself from.

I very much agree. I don't think we can rationalize true, emotional pain, but we can accept it for what it is and look for healthy healing once we've let it take its course. I might be wrong, but I somehow find it difficult to believe that one never gets reprieve, even if temporary, from emotional pain long enough to look for a way that can make it uniquely easier on themselves.

 

[Trifoilum]

i think 12 minutes may be arbitrary, but a lot of emotional pain is caused by your own mind. the point of this seems to want you to take responsibility for your own emotions.
'pain is a fact; misery is an option' is relevant.

Agreed.

I guess next time someone in my family dies, I'll make sure to be sad for exactly 12 minutes. Anything longer that that is clearly self-inflicted, as demonstrated by this highly informative text graphic.

First of all, assuming this text is true; I don't think self-inflicted pain is ALWAYS wrong, despite the stigma that's spreading around. And I think, this picture is indirectly spreading the stigma; namely 'stop whining and get over it.'

And that is somewhat of a douche-like action.

And I also noticed the readiness and instantaneous assumption of self-inflicted >> bad >> must eliminate and stop >> otherwise you're a worse person. Perhaps there's some assumption and association with physical self-harming....

Then there is awareness, which can be wielded as either a weapon or as a point of healing.

Agreed.

I would personally believe that this article -might- be helpful; but not in a 'oh no it's past 12 minutes already STOP CRYING YOU WIMP WHY ARE YOU STILL CRYING', but indeed, when does it start to become too much?

Maybe the answer lies within the stimulus itself.

 

[This]

Keep in mind that "self-inflicted" doesn't necessarily mean voluntary. From a neurological point of view this could very well be true as the anguish you feel after 12 minutes may be the event involuntarily replaying itself in your mind.

 

[Kmal]

Keep in mind that "self-inflicted" doesn't necessarily mean voluntary.

Not the first time, maybe; but after that, awareness comes in to play and you realize that you can control how much you think about something, and more importantly-- HOW you think about something.

 

[not sure]

Nonsense. Pain cannot be objectively measured so there is no way to say with certainty when it starts and when it ends. People do feel pain and often it's a pitiful thing. I see no reason to burden them with timing it. "All emotional pain lasts 12 minutes." Hmm. Not 10 minutes? Not 12.345 minutes? Why in heaven's it so unreasonable for humans to be human? Where does this agenda come from to turn us into machines?

 

[Faye]

@Dragon dont give people excuses to not have control over themselves. whether or not they want to control themselves is the question.

emotional pain is a fact-- to cause yourself to be miserable is another thing. immediate reactions are a little bit harder to control; however, after you've had time (not 12 minutes, its different for everyone. though, minimizing this time is a good exercise) to think through it, it's time to let go.

[MENTION=2259]Kmal[/MENTION] What makes you think that I am giving people excuses to not have control over themselves? Can you prove that people have control over themselves in the first place? No, you can't- because many people don't have control. Being in control of one's emotions is a sensation that some are lucky enough to have while others are not so lucky.

Whether or not people want to control themselves is irrelevant if they are subject to a condition that makes it difficult for them to control themselves. Of course these people want to control themselves: example, people who binge eat want to stop (but they can't control the cravings now can they), people with sleep disorders want to sleep (but they can't will themselves to sleep no matter how much they want to, or to not sleep, depending on the disorder).

The fact of the matter is that humans have about as much control over their emotional state per their will as they have over other bodily functions. Assuming that they are just choosing not to control themselves shows a complete misunderstanding of their various difficulties. It is an ignorant and conservative view. It is about as ridiculous as expecting someone to choose to not be constipated or to choose to not have the flu.

I'm not giving people excuses but trying to get past the stigma perpetuating mentality that so many people seem to endorse and realize that people who can't control themselves need real solutions to their problems, not more blame.

 

[Kmal]

[MENTION=834]Dragon[/MENTION]

because many people don't have control. Being in control of one's emotions is a sensation that some are lucky enough to have while others are not so lucky.

They don't have control yet. The potential to control yourself is in everyone--

Whether or not people want to control themselves is irrelevant if they are subject to a condition that makes it difficult for them to control themselves. Of course these people want to control themselves: example, people who binge eat want to stop (but they can't control the cravings now can they), people with sleep disorders want to sleep (but they can't will themselves to sleep no matter how much they want to, or to not sleep, depending on the disorder).

Binge eaters don't stay that way their whole life (all of them at least). I used to binge eat, it was my escape. If you really want control over yourself, you will get control. If you like the escape more than yourself, you will not get control. If you think you cannot get control, you will not get control. Up to a point, your mind controls your body. Hypochondriacs come to mind-- people who will themselves sick. You may say "oh well they're not physically sick," but they feel sick. They think they're sick. Does that make their symptoms less real because you can't observe it?

The fact of the matter is that humans have about as much control over their emotional state per their will as they have over other bodily functions. Assuming that they are just choosing not to control themselves shows a complete misunderstanding of their various difficulties. It is an ignorant and conservative view. It is about as ridiculous as expecting someone to choose to not be constipated or to choose to not have the flu.

You can choose not to be constipated by eating the right foods. You can be healthy enough to not get the flu. You (whatever that is) are at cause for your body. You are at cause for your imagination. You are at cause for your future.
You do have control of if you exercise (or do you mean bodily functions such as breathing? of course there are things you cant control, so focus on the things you can, like what you think, and what you do). You have control of whether you feel good or not (a result of thoughts and decisions you've made).

Now, no one is perfect, which means you can't control yourself 100% of the time, but when I think of someone not being able to control themselves, I think of a robot, or something like that. I dont even think of a human being. Last but not least, sometimes, shit happens. You roll with it, you dont lay down and give up by saying you cant do it, or there is no way.

realize that people who can't control themselves

yet. Give them some credit. Consolation, and sympathy only goes so far.

 

[Joonas]

Raw emotional pain? Do animals mourn when their kin die?

Yes, and as far as I've noticed, animals have the same emotions as humans do, although it varies from animal to animal. I suppose they got the 12 minutes from studying animals with similar brains to ours or something.