About INFJ and INTJ dynamics

[Daeme]

Hi all. I'm Europian F in my 30's. I'm INFJ, tested several times. My SO is M, my best friend is F, both several times tested as INTJs. I have been with my SO for 5 years, known my bf for 10 years.

To put it shortly; during the pandemic and other massive things happening in my life, I have realized that in order to feel myself safe and loved, I need lots of emotional closeness and intimacy from my closest relationships.

I have also realized, that the two biggest and "closest" relationship in my life don't give those things to me.

Now, I never entered these relationships to change these people. Because you can't really change people. I still feel and always have felt, that I love them to bits. I also believe that they do, too, care for me 110%. The problem is, that I guess I didn't know anything about how INTJs (I didn't
know anything about MBTI at the time) operate with other people before I got to know them. It sounds really harsh, but they really don't need other people's physical, or, especially, emotional closeness like other people do. There's always this emotional wall, that I can't seem to go through no matter how many years go past, they never truly tell me how they feel or what they think. As an INFJ, I live in my head a lot and I love my solitude. But man, do they do it hardcore! My bf has initiated contact with me twice during the past 5 years. Twice - it's so rare that I keep book, yes. I'm always the one initiating. She also never gets the obvious hints I'm trying to give her, when I've been missing talking with her, that I would love to keep talking just a little bit more. She never checks up on me even if she knows that I'm ill, or going through tough times. Nor does she ever ask about my work, family or my relationship with my SO, even though I keep asking how's hers. To a party she might bring her other friend and then pretty much ignore me the whole evening, and she doesn't understand what's weird about that. Last spring there was this one outdoor party we both went, and because of pandemic I haven't drank at all except that time, and of course I got quite hammered... And literally everyone else were asking me am I getting home safely, but her. She didn't ask me once am I OK, should she walk with me, or something that I would have asked her if she was in my shoes (I took a taxi, no worries guys). No-one could ever tell in social situations that we in fact are bfs, because she acts so detached!

My SO doesn't initiate stuff either, if you know what I mean. Not even when I ask him nicely or not so nicely to please initiate sometimes too. He just says he "doesn't naturally need that kind of things that often", which seems to mean the same as "pretty much never"... Those things aside, he isn't an a**hole as a person, or on the autism spectrum, but he doesn't understand many social cues and he just doesn't understand emotions very well. He doesn't get it that my dad can't walk as fast because my dad is very sick and fragile, has been for years now, no matter how many times I repeat myself to him. He doesn't give me the things I wish for X-mas, something kind of like the thing, but never the actual thing, so I've stopped hoping for the actual things... Even if I give him the link, he doesn't get the actual thing, it's ridiccilous. He doesn't converse with our guests, he doesn't make food for me too etc. He never suggest that he could massage my shoulders or feet, even though it's a thing I have been asking for years now, because of my work that gets hard on my body often - it doesn't cross his mind that it's something I could need and something that would make me feel good.

Both of them are bad huggers too. They stand too far away, they get all stiff, they don't give that nice squeeze etc. It's like a limp handshake. Sorry for all of you who don't like hugs either, but as a hugger I'm terrified of hugging them.

I guess this is a whole vent. I'm just really tired. They both do very nice things to me too, and even though my bf doesn't initiate contact, she's always available to meet me and so on. I laugh a lot with them both, we think quite similarly on many things, I like their intelligence and wit... But I feel drained. I feel like I'm doing all the emotional work and getting 0 input back. Wittiness can't replace emotional intelligence to me, ever. Intelligence can't replace passion and physical acts of love, ever. I have finally understood it. I don't know what to do. Please don't think I haven't told them both several times very clearly what my needs and wishes are... Because I have. They might act accordingly for a few days, and then they go back being "robots". They simply don't need me or anyone like we need others.

I think I'm much more suitable with other NFs...

Sorry for the vent.

 

[dragulagu]

I have a painting in my mind I'm proud of, it has the colours I like, a picture I have envisioned, and all pushed into one frame I have managed to uphold into some sanctity.
And I show you this painting and want you to understand, I don't expect to, that's love. If I let you hear a resonating song of some kind, that's love. I let you read words that resonate, it's love.
It's a limitation of expression, that's INTJ (for whatever that cliche takes to it). INTJ's do not exist(!).

Reread that wall of text of yours.

 

[Daeme]

I have a painting in my mind I'm proud of, it has the colours I like, a picture I have envisioned, and all pushed into one frame I have managed to uphold into some sanctity.
And I show you this painting and want you to understand, I don't expect to, that's love. If I let you hear a resonating song of some kind, that's love. I let you read words that resonate, it's love.
It's a limitation of expression, that's INTJ (for whatever that cliche takes to it). INTJ's do not exist(!).

Reread that wall of text of yours.

I'm sorry, maybe because I'm not a native English speaker, but I don't really understand your answer.

 

[dragulagu]

Just go gently through your rant. I responded too fast.
In short: Stop.Overanalysing.every.piece.of.movement your SO/BF is making.

no one does that, except INFJ/ENFJ's.

 

[Daeme]

Just go gently through your rant. I responded too fast.
In short: Stop.Overanalysing.every.piece.of.movement your SO/BF is making.

no one does that, except INFJ/ENFJ's.

Ok. However, this isn't anymore me overanalyzing them. This is our love languages not meeting in the middle, not even saying hello to each others actually. I have kept trying and trying and trying, but they won't meet my love language. That's why I realize it's time to let them both go. This was a vent because I'm sad I have to let them go, maybe not doorslamming, but I have to find myself more suitable partner and friends because if I keep doing this, I will only be a depressed shadow of myself, not the joyful person I used to be. It's really sad because I have known them both for years now, but I know it's best for all of us.

 

[Asa]

Hi @Daeme. Welcome. Let's talk about your needs and your relationships because I don't think the problem is that those closest to you are INTJs. The problem is that your needs aren't being met. You need affection, hugging, and physical contact, and the people you're surrounding yourself with do not need as much of these things. What you want and need out of life and what those closest to you want and need are different.


Why is this person your best friend? She never contacts you, doesn't share with you, doesn't ask how you are, invites other people to parties instead of you, and ignores you at social events. That doesn't sound friendly. Many introverts don't contact their friends regularly and are somewhat reclusive, but they should be asking about you and being nice to you when they see you if they are your friends. I'm not saying you should not be friends with you – please continue to be friends with her – but why is someone who doesn't meet any of your needs in a friendship your "best" friend? Try to make other friends who do meet some of your needs and spend time with different people until you click with someone. You really do deserve people who are caring and affectionate in the way that you need.

As someone who is close with many INTJs, I insist that they are affectionate and do open up with people they are truly close to. INTJs are not uncaring robots. There is something else going on here. I'm also going to point out that the perspective in your post is that they never do this, never do that, and are never affectionate, and never act friendly, and never reach out, and never share. This makes it seem like you are the only one participating in these relationships. If that were the case, the relationships wouldn't exist. (According to some MBTI specialists, this mindset is a Fi-user trait, btw.) The first thing is to acknowledge that unless these relationships are toxic, they do give you attention and affection in their own way. Look for how they share, how they show love and concern and try to learn their "languages". You may grow to find their styles of communication charming. (As Dragulagu stated above – sharing what they care about and what interests them is love.) Let their love in instead of building walls because you're not getting affection the way you expect it. Everyone shows love in their own way. Try to have a sense of humor about it, too.

Make sure you are completely open, fully listening, and non-judgmental when they want to open up, too, because if you shut them off when they dare to share their inner worlds with you, they won't want to share again any time soon.

Work on yourself, too, because it sounds like you are in a place right now where you need a lot of attention and you're not getting it. That's OK. There's nothing wrong with that, but maybe there are things going on with you that you need to address, and self-care and working on your weaknesses could help. (Maybe visit INFJ shadow traits and descriptions of the grip, too.)

Initiate and show/tell him what you want. There is really no other way around this because as intelligent and intuitive as INTJs are, they aren't mind readers, especially with human emotional needs.

If you truly need a relationship with someone who is more outwardly affectionate and caring, and more emotional, you may need to think long and hard about the future of your romance, why you find INTJs attractive (if you aren't getting what you want from them) and whether you have relationship-building habits that are healthiest and best for you.

 

[Kgal]

Hi all. I'm Europian F in my 30's. I'm INFJ, tested several times. My SO is M, my best friend is F, both several times tested as INTJs. I have been with my SO for 5 years, known my bf for 10 years.

To put it shortly; during the pandemic and other massive things happening in my life, I have realized that in order to feel myself safe and loved, I need lots of emotional closeness and intimacy from my closest relationships.

I have also realized, that the two biggest and "closest" relationship in my life don't give those things to me.

Now, I never entered these relationships to change these people. Because you can't really change people. I still feel and always have felt, that I love them to bits. I also believe that they do, too, care for me 110%. The problem is, that I guess I didn't know anything about how INTJs (I didn't
know anything about MBTI at the time) operate with other people before I got to know them. It sounds really harsh, but they really don't need other people's physical, or, especially, emotional closeness like other people do. There's always this emotional wall, that I can't seem to go through no matter how many years go past, they never truly tell me how they feel or what they think. As an INFJ, I live in my head a lot and I love my solitude. But man, do they do it hardcore! My bf has initiated contact with me twice during the past 5 years. Twice - it's so rare that I keep book, yes. I'm always the one initiating. She also never gets the obvious hints I'm trying to give her, when I've been missing talking with her, that I would love to keep talking just a little bit more. She never checks up on me even if she knows that I'm ill, or going through tough times. Nor does she ever ask about my work, family or my relationship with my SO, even though I keep asking how's hers. To a party she might bring her other friend and then pretty much ignore me the whole evening, and she doesn't understand what's weird about that. Last spring there was this one outdoor party we both went, and because of pandemic I haven't drank at all except that time, and of course I got quite hammered... And literally everyone else were asking me am I getting home safely, but her. She didn't ask me once am I OK, should she walk with me, or something that I would have asked her if she was in my shoes (I took a taxi, no worries guys). No-one could ever tell in social situations that we in fact are bfs, because she acts so detached!

My SO doesn't initiate stuff either, if you know what I mean. Not even when I ask him nicely or not so nicely to please initiate sometimes too. He just says he "doesn't naturally need that kind of things that often", which seems to mean the same as "pretty much never"... Those things aside, he isn't an a**hole as a person, or on the autism spectrum, but he doesn't understand many social cues and he just doesn't understand emotions very well. He doesn't get it that my dad can't walk as fast because my dad is very sick and fragile, has been for years now, no matter how many times I repeat myself to him. He doesn't give me the things I wish for X-mas, something kind of like the thing, but never the actual thing, so I've stopped hoping for the actual things... Even if I give him the link, he doesn't get the actual thing, it's ridiculous. He doesn't converse with our guests, he doesn't make food for me too etc. He never suggest that he could massage my shoulders or feet, even though it's a thing I have been asking for years now, because of my work that gets hard on my body often - it doesn't cross his mind that it's something I could need and something that would make me feel good.

Both of them are bad huggers too. They stand too far away, they get all stiff, they don't give that nice squeeze etc. It's like a limp handshake. Sorry for all of you who don't like hugs either, but as a hugger I'm terrified of hugging them.

I guess this is a whole vent. I'm just really tired. They both do very nice things to me too, and even though my bf doesn't initiate contact, she's always available to meet me and so on. I laugh a lot with them both, we think quite similarly on many things, I like their intelligence and wit... But I feel drained. I feel like I'm doing all the emotional work and getting 0 input back. Wittiness can't replace emotional intelligence to me, ever. Intelligence can't replace passion and physical acts of love, ever. I have finally understood it. I don't know what to do. Please don't think I haven't told them both several times very clearly what my needs and wishes are... Because I have. They might act accordingly for a few days, and then they go back being "robots". They simply don't need me or anyone like we need others.

I think I'm much more suitable with other NFs...

Sorry for the vent.

I completely resonate with all you've said. I have lived with an INTJ off an on for 30 years now. I had to separate from him for years in order to find myself. I too was tired of the emotional one sided nature of the relationship. They love it when you lavish love and affection upon them. But they don't seem to be able to give that kind of energy back to you....and eventually you hit a brick wall of Empty.

After years of separation he approached me to reunite. By then I had lived alone for so long I had developed a strong loving relationship with myself so I said yes. I kept my boundaries. Taught him how to hug. and the most important thing was....I didn't try to save him from himself anymore like I used to. I put my foot down and said I refuse to be who I used to be. Take it or leave it. Whew.... the first 2 years were pretty rough....but now it's better than ever.

Acknowledge you need more loving kindness in your life. Tell your self it's okay to feel this. Then find your own ways of giving it to you. Go on a vacation with your self. Start meditation for an hour each evening in a private space. Your SO will not miss you. I know that sounds harsh....but you feel it to be true don't you? And that is a perfect place to start giving your self compassion for not being needed(seemingly appreciated and loved). One day you'll realize it is a blessing to not be needed.
Practice self care.
Do your daily routines backwards or with the opposite hands.
Sing nonsense songs to your body.
Switch up your Mind. Leave the INTJs behind. They'll be fine. Open your heart to your self and let it shine.

Pfff.... I don't even know why I was motivated to write that rhyming stuff. But I'm going to let it stay there.

Anyway.... all you said points to you recognizing you need more kindness and compassion in your life than you are allowing yourself to experience. It's just an indicator of time for change.
I wish you massive success in falling in love with your Self.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

I was demoted to INTJ a number of years ago now, and I can tell you that cuddling with an SO ranks as one of my favourite things.

I'm not sure what you hope to gain from addressing this problem in your life from the extremely general level of MBTI, rather than simply examining it on its merits. There are sixteen types - there are some 'INFJs' I get on with very well, others who repulse me on a gut level. The 'general' is of extremely limited utility here.

Your 'vent' there exhibited that you pretty well know exactly what the issue is; and I'd say, too, that you know what to do, with one caveat:

If you haven't already, make sure that you actually communicate these needs to the people in your life. An INTJ will typically treat you as you ask to be treated, but it needs to be explicit. Make sure that you aren't forgetting that you once asked for space or whatever and they're still operating under that presumption.

 

[dragulagu]

Ok. However, this isn't anymore me overanalyzing them. This is our love languages not meeting in the middle, not even saying hello to each others actually. I have kept trying and trying and trying, but they won't meet my love language. That's why I realize it's time to let them both go. This was a vent because I'm sad I have to let them go, maybe not doorslamming, but I have to find myself more suitable partner and friends because if I keep doing this, I will only be a depressed shadow of myself, not the joyful person I used to be. It's really sad because I have known them both for years now, but I know it's best for all of us.

Just talk it out with them about how you feel about it.

 

[Anomaly]

I think this goes deeper than MBTI.
I've known several INTJs, and their level of care and affection for those they love is beyond anything I've encountered with most others. It is just demonstrated in different ways than you might expect. Ah, expectations, we love to put people in little boxes, don't we?

I don't want to devalue the pain you feel, and I'm sorry that you feel your needs aren't taken care of. However, you mentioned above that you want your friend to come to you, but you don't want to have to tell her what you need; you want her to know without you asking. The trouble is, people don't work that way. They aren't mind-readers. You may have to remind them for the rest of your life. The question is, can you be content choosing? Choosing even if you have to ask explicitly and often? Do you think they are worth the effort in stating your needs openly?

Further, have you had this uncomfortable conversation with each of them (everything you've openly shared here with us)? Meaning stating your needs, why they are important, and how their lack of meeting them makes you feel? That ultimately, you feel unloved? If not, then you should.

 

[Daeme]

I'm now replying to each and everyone of you; thanks for your input, BUT; please actually read my whole message, there's your answer to your question "have you actually tried to tell them what you need from them". Yes, I indeed have. You guys would now it if you had actually read through what I wrote.

 

[Anomaly]

I'm now replying to each and everyone of you; thanks for your input, BUT; please actually read my whole message, there's your answer to your question "have you actually tried to tell them what you need from them". Yes, I indeed have. You guys would now it if you had actually read through what I wrote.

I read your post, but it is a bit contradictory. You say you've told them, but it also says things like:

She also never gets the obvious hints I'm trying to give her, when I've been missing talking with her, that I would love to keep talking just a little bit more. She never checks up on me even if she knows that I'm ill, or going through tough times. Nor does she ever ask about my work, family or my relationship with my SO, even though I keep asking how's hers.

Which alludes to your expectations not being explicitly stated, but you wanting her to do what you expect her to do based on what others or you would do because you deem it 'obvious'.

For example, did you confront her after she didn't check on you getting home, and set that as an expectation of behavior moving forward?

 

[Asa]

I'm now replying to each and everyone of you; thanks for your input, BUT; please actually read my whole message, there's your answer to your question "have you actually tried to tell them what you need from them". Yes, I indeed have. You guys would now it if you had actually read through what I wrote.

You're being defensive and have tunnel vision. You're not getting what you want from them or from us, so we're all the problem. Is it your default setting to focus on people and how you fit or don't fit, and whether they like you or not? We all have moments like this, but are you usually focused on this problem? This could help us determine what level of crisis you are in. If it is your default, it's just about adjustments. (Probably means you are an INFP, not an INFJ.) If it isn't your default, it means this problem is "shadowy" for you, which means you're off balance and in mental/emotional pain and we need to find the root of that to help you solve the problem.

...For the record, I do believe INTJs are a poor fit for INFPs. It's like knives being thrown at balloons.

All I can tell is you're in emotional pain and we want to help resolve that.

Is there something going on with you, or with your life, that is making you need more attention and affection? Is your life out of balance? Can we help resolve that with you?
It isn't the job of the people who love us to fix us. We have to fix ourselves. Otherwise, the issue continues indefinitely no matter how much love and affection we receive.

How did you find these INTJs to date and befriend? Was there a time when these relationships were fulfilling? How do we find balance and fulfillment in your life so you find these relationships fulfilling again? Or are you chronically attracted to people who are not right for you? If this is the case, why are you attracted to people who don't give you what you need?

If there was a time when these relationships were fulfilling that means the imbalance is recent and with some work, you can reach a place where these relationships are fulfilling again and you feel whole and your needs are met.

If you are chronically attracted to people who are not right for you, that means you need to do some serious rewiring. This may also mean doing some serious soul searching and making decisions about your relationships.

 

[Daeme]

I completely resonate with all you've said. I have lived with an INTJ off an on for 30 years now. I had to separate from him for years in order to find myself. I too was tired of the emotional one sided nature of the relationship. They love it when you lavish love and affection upon them. But they don't seem to be able to give that kind of energy back to you....and eventually you hit a brick wall of Empty.

Acknowledge you need more loving kindness in your life. Tell your self it's okay to feel this. Then find your own ways of giving it to you. Go on a vacation with your self. Start meditation for an hour each evening in a private space. Your SO will not miss you. I know that sounds harsh....but you feel it to be true don't you?

Switch up your Mind. Leave the INTJs behind. They'll be fine. Open your heart to your self and let it shine.

Anyway.... all you said points to you recognizing you need more kindness and compassion in your life than you are allowing yourself to experience. It's just an indicator of time for change.
I wish you massive success in falling in love with your Self.

Seriously, thank you. Thank you for understanding exactly what I meant with my venting. It seems you know what you're talking about by experiencing being with someone just like my SO and bf for 30 years.

Yes, I have realized I need more kindness and compassion in my life. I never said that I blame these dear individuals for how they act in relationships, I only said that it makes me feel drained and tired, because I feel like I'm doing all the emotional work. And despite how clearly I have told them what I need from them and how these things make me feel, they won't change (because as I said in the beginning of my post, I don't believe that one can really change people). And they won't change for me, because this is who they are in their very core, this is how they were born to this world; very independent, detached, not needing anyone really. I'm not saying they don't feel love, I'm saying they are not able to give me the kind of love that I need. And that's on me, yes, but also I have realized that my happiness isn't any less important than their happiness, it's not my job to repeat myself over and over again, it's not my job to wait for the tiniest signs of care and love if there are other people in this world who can give those much more easily, if there are people who actually speak my love language.

It's not my job to settle guys, I'm sorry to say, but I have started to realize it's not my job to patiently wait for something that isn't ever going to happen. And it's definitely not their fault! It's no-one's fault. Yet it makes me very sad, obviously. It should make me feel sad, that I have realized something like this.

 

[Daeme]

Hi @Daeme. Welcome. Let's talk about your needs and your relationships because I don't think the problem is that those closest to you are INTJs. The problem is that your needs aren't being met. You need affection, hugging, and physical contact, and the people you're surrounding yourself with do not need as much of these things. What you want and need out of life and what those closest to you want and need are different.


Why is this person your best friend? She never contacts you, doesn't share with you, doesn't ask how you are, invites other people to parties instead of you, and ignores you at social events. That doesn't sound friendly. Many introverts don't contact their friends regularly and are somewhat reclusive, but they should be asking about you and being nice to you when they see you if they are your friends. I'm not saying you should not be friends with you – please continue to be friends with her – but why is someone who doesn't meet any of your needs in a friendship your "best" friend? Try to make other friends who do meet some of your needs and spend time with different people until you click with someone. You really do deserve people who are caring and affectionate in the way that you need.

As someone who is close with many INTJs, I insist that they are affectionate and do open up with people they are truly close to. INTJs are not uncaring robots. There is something else going on here. I'm also going to point out that the perspective in your post is that they never do this, never do that, and are never affectionate, and never act friendly, and never reach out, and never share. This makes it seem like you are the only one participating in these relationships. If that were the case, the relationships wouldn't exist. (According to some MBTI specialists, this mindset is a Fi-user trait, btw.) The first thing is to acknowledge that unless these relationships are toxic, they do give you attention and affection in their own way. Look for how they share, how they show love and concern and try to learn their "languages". You may grow to find their styles of communication charming. (As Dragulagu stated above – sharing what they care about and what interests them is love.) Let their love in instead of building walls because you're not getting affection the way you expect it. Everyone shows love in their own way. Try to have a sense of humor about it, too.

Make sure you are completely open, fully listening, and non-judgmental when they want to open up, too, because if you shut them off when they dare to share their inner worlds with you, they won't want to share again any time soon.

Work on yourself, too, because it sounds like you are in a place right now where you need a lot of attention and you're not getting it. That's OK. There's nothing wrong with that, but maybe there are things going on with you that you need to address, and self-care and working on your weaknesses could help. (Maybe visit INFJ shadow traits and descriptions of the grip, too.)

Initiate and show/tell him what you want. There is really no other way around this because as intelligent and intuitive as INTJs are, they aren't mind readers, especially with human emotional needs.

If you truly need a relationship with someone who is more outwardly affectionate and caring, and more emotional, you may need to think long and hard about the future of your romance, why you find INTJs attractive (if you aren't getting what you want from them) and whether you have relationship-building habits that are healthiest and best for you.

Hello to you too, and thanks for the welcome!

Yes, very true, my needs and their needs are very different, and thus my needs aren't being met (which interestingly makes me seem like "the needy one", even though my needs are completely normal for all humans across the globe and time, touch and emotionally feeling close, so maybe words of affirmations, but also quality time spend together?). What I have realized lately, is that my needs and the needs of my closest ones, don't necessarily have to be different at all. There are plenty of people who need the same things that I do, and so those other people would understand my needs much better than my current people. I know this who-needs-what situation isn't the only important thing in what makes two people close, but on the long run, it does help a huge lot.

This person became my best friend in early adulthood. We went the same school, the same class, and we shared many similar interests and wittiness, it was so nice to be on the same wavelength with someone so quickly. We hated the same things and liked the same things, we shared same dry yet dark humor. We dressed the same, we both liked cats and horror movies, things young adults still put a lot of weight on. It felt so easy, Sister from another mister type of connection. I always felt at ease with her, and she said no-one gets her like I do. Somewhere after school "friends" became "best friends", I don't remember who used the word first. We went many same hobby groups, introduced our other friends to each others, held parties together.

I guess I never realized before pandemic, how I was always the one initiating, always the one planning things, how I heard some pretty important things about her life months later, how she went all stiff when we hugged goodbyes, how I cheered her on and gave compliments but she didn't and so on. In summer 2020 I purposefully stopped initiating contact for a whole month and she didn't seem to notice at all... I know, a pity "test" to do, but then again I would have never knew if I hadn't done it. I initiate contact once or twice a week, normally, and we're both in this one group chat where I tend to talk almost daily with some other people (the group chat wasn't up yet in summer 2020). It's like each year she drifts further and further away, even though I have not changed my behaviours (she's not busy with her life, she's single and has no kids and works regular hours). I have talked about these things with her, how it makes me feel weird and sad, and she just says she hasn't realized, or "ok yeah, I guess I can try and initiate more", but then it stops after a few days to few weeks again.

I have many other friends, btw. Female and male. She isn't my only friend, by no means. I simply used to favor her more, because I used to think we are special together. But I guess it was some sort of projection of my own hopes, and not reality. It's not pleasant to wake up for the reality, so maybe I tried to continue dreaming?

Never this and never that, well, I'm only stating what's the truth. I never said they don't feel love, I said they don't need others like others need others. You're completely right there; these relationships wouldn't exists without me trying to make them work over and over again. There are people who always say yes to invitations and plans, even though they never initiate themselves - I have some distant pals who are like this, I'm sure everyone knows people like this. That's why they are my pals, and that's what I should have left these INTJs to be in the first place. I just wanted to see the connection for so long. Some people even say that you shouldn't abandon these "yes pals", because "it's not their fault, they just don't understand social situations as well, but at least they care about you, because they always come and you always have a fun time, right??? So who cares who initiates, we don't count in friendships, right??? If you abandon them, you wouldn't have as many friends, right???" Right.

I already know how they show love; they both show love by actions of duty. They're always there when someone needs moving help, or a driver, or someone needs help decorating a party and what not. They both are always there. And that's very sweet of them. It's just not enough for me. Because I think a decent human being is supposed to help their loved ones in need anyway. That's what I do with my sick dad every day, I help him. That's what I do with friends who I can help moving etc. It's a very practical way to show love, but seriously... Everyone should speak that love language just because that's what you should always do if you are decent. It doesn't make me feel loved anymore than if my neighbour would lend me some sugar and eggs, or a co-worker would help me with work stuff - it makes me only feel a slight "oh that's nice of him/her". And yeah, that's on me, it's my "fault" how I see this thing, but actually it's no-one's fault.

INTJs being attractive to me... Well they both were similar enough with me, so it was easy to feel that I liked them? I still like them, I just see my situation more clearly. I also like it that they're logical and independent, because I'm logical and independent - during years I just have realized they are too independent for me, relationships should exists because you feel you somehow need this other person in your life, right?

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

Have you spoken with them about this?

Not that you'd like them to initiate more. You & others are already discussing that.

More specifically, "I don't think we are right for each other and it's time for us to go our own ways. My needs aren't met in our relationship."

 

[Asa]

Somewhere after school "friends" became "best friends",

What I'm wondering right now is what is going on with her. She may be hiding something. She may be focused on something. Maybe she is going through something. Maybe she is burned out. The pandemic affects us all differently, too.

Some people need a lot of alone time and aren't likely to initiate. That doesn't mean they don't value you and care about you. INXJs are future-focused and not very good at keeping track of daily and weekly details, including the realities of social contacts. She may be focused on the end-goal of what she is doing with the plan to catch up with friends after, however, as an INTJ she won't be very people-focused and the details of keeping up with daily life and relationships will be out of focus. This is a big blind spot for Ni doms.

But I guess it was some sort of projection of my own hopes, and not reality.

One of the most valuable aspects of MBTI is that it teaches us why and how people are different and why they can't change the core reasons they are different. Obviously, we all grow and develop through life, but people cannot morph into being someone else entirely. We have to accept people as they are and love them as they are. In this case, sadly, your INTJs' way of doing things and your way aren't matching, but that doesn't mean they don't love you and care about you in their own way. It's beautiful to be loved by anyone at all, so try to focus on being thankful that people care about you, even if their way of doing it is different. Don't have expectations based on how you do things.

INTJs are selective about people, so you're lucky to catch their attention at all.

Never this and never that, well, I'm only stating what's the truth. I never said they don't feel love, I said they don't need others like others need others. You're completely right there; these relationships wouldn't exists without me trying to make them work over and over again. There are people who always say yes to invitations and plans, even though they never initiate themselves - I have some distant pals who are like this, I'm sure everyone knows people like this. That's why they are my pals, and that's what I should have left these INTJs to be in the first place. I just wanted to see the connection for so long. Some people even say that you shouldn't abandon these "yes pals", because "it's not their fault, they just don't understand social situations as well, but at least they care about you, because they always come and you always have a fun time, right??? So who cares who initiates, we don't count in friendships, right??? If you abandon them, you wouldn't have as many friends, right???" Right.

I just said that above. Sorry. <friendly laugh, hugs>
The weight you put on others and the way you separate yourself and put them against you suggests that you are IXXP, not Ni-dom. I still cannot tell if this is because you're shadowy (meaning the four functions that you use less are dominant right now and you are an INFJ in distress) or if this is your norm. Either way, placing all the blame on others without assessing how you fit into the equation won't work.

Being shadowy is relevant because it would mean a greater problem is hidden beneath all this and the problem with the INTJs is only the tip of the iceberg. If that is the case, we need to work on that so you get better.

I already know how they show love; they both show love by actions of duty.

Duty is hugely important to many INTJs and it definitely counts as showing affection. Nobody is obligated to be there for anyone else, so when someone takes the time out of their lives to do something selfless, that always counts.

during years I just have realized they are too independent for me, relationships should exists because you feel you somehow need this other person in your life, right?

I don't know. What is need? What is want? Choosing to share your life with someone is HUGE, especially if you're so independent that you don't "need" anyone.
INTJs really can do everything solo, but if you dig and listen, you'll find that INTJs have deep emotions and they truly appreciate genuine people they can reveal their true selves with. Pay attention when they give you credit for the ways you add value to their lives.

What do you want from posting about this? What is your goal and/or hope? Do you want to resolve the issues with the INTJs, or are you asking for permission (hoping we will tell you) to seek affection elsewhere and let them go? There are no wrong answers here, but both involve sacrifices. The end goal is for you to be happy.

 

[Anomaly]

As if an answer from the universe extended its hand out, this came into my YouTube feed today. Maybe you will glean from it, maybe you won't. Either way, I couldn't help but share it given how apropos it was, and how easy it is to share with you in this space. Sometimes, text can be muddled, listening hits a bit different. Ultimately, I hope to point you to the positives of such relationships, rather than the negatives. It helps to see another perspective. My intention is only to help.

 

[Linda Loo]

Hello. Have you tried studying up on INTJs? I really recommend it for loving and appreciating your INTJs in ways that resonate with them.

I would also recommend discussing love languages with your partner and try to meet each other halfway there.

I wonder if you and your "best friend" are on the same page at this point in your lives. I think it is so important to have a group of friends and spread yourself out rather than expecting one friend to meet your every need and request. You can definitely find snuggly affectionate people, even within the INTJ community.

In the meantime appreciate all the great qualities, such as, honesty, intelligence, loyalty, discretion, reverence, steadiness, honor, competency, directness... I could go on all day. Love them. They are rare gems, indeed.

 

[Kgal]

I'm not saying they don't feel love, I'm saying they are not able to give me the kind of love that I need. And that's on me, yes, but also I have realized that my happiness isn't any less important than their happiness, it's not my job to repeat myself over and over again, it's not my job to wait for the tiniest signs of care and love if there are other people in this world who can give those much more easily, if there are people who actually speak my love language.
It's not my job to settle guys, I'm sorry to say, but I have started to realize it's not my job to patiently wait for something that isn't ever going to happen. And it's definitely not their fault! It's no-one's fault. Yet it makes me very sad, obviously. It should make me feel sad, that I have realized something like this.

These are beautiful realizations for you. ...and will help you towards that which you wish to achieve for your self.
However... I wish to caution you on making a decision which includes others. I suggest you increase that wonderful ability to focus on your self to the exclusion of others behaviors directly affecting you.
In my long life I have found decisions made upon a fear basis....never led to the best outcomes. On the other hand... big decisions I made such as to leave husbands or jobs or states....always always turned out for my highest outcome when I left in state of non fear basis.
I hope you allow your self the space to feel the grief of your loss. We all know loss comes in a huge variety of ways....and when we realize the relationship we thought we had turns out not to be what we truly desire.... there is a loss in many areas of our life.
Security. We may feel unsafe now that we know what we thought we knew isn't true. This creates doubt.
Trust in ourselves. We may feel unsafe in our very Self because we thought we knew what we knew....and now that isn't so.
There's Grief in a loss of every Idea we hold dear. Dreams. Relationships. Goals. When we realize we cannot have them anymore....we grieve.
Perhaps you can see why now is not good timing to make a "forever" kind of decision. I hope this makes sense for you.
The grieving process is the next logical step as it promotes the flow of love your heart desires. Releasing the pain of loss encourages a space within your energy field for your own love to come in.
Also... letting go of the old ways of a relationship with someone does not necessarily mean they leave your life forever. Nope. It means you have let your universe know you are ready for more unconditional kindness and love in your life. If your SO and BF are ready to step up to that level they will be with you. I know it sounds a bit surprising....and believe me I was...but this is happening not only for me but for others as well.
As you allow your self to receive your own love energy for your from you... answers and love will flow to you.