6w5 vs 5 enneagram type

[Princess Zucchini]

Sorry if I didn't see the enneagram tab, but I did look! So, I'm pretty sure my instinct stack is sx/sp (I'm an INTP), but either 6 or 5 could apply to me. I think I come across more 5w4, but my goals/sins/needs/fears lean more 6. I don't really have a need for greed and don’t really experience sensations like envy or shame. I think having no close friends would be very difficult, unless I inherited a pile of money from a distant aunt, which is more 6. I'm very investigative and strategic by nature. My emotions are either entirely intellectualized and somatic or I cry during those Ethel and Ernest clips on YouTube. Anybody want to take a crack at it??

 

[John K]

@Princess Zucchini I think the way that the faults associated with each Enneagram type are expressed can be rather misleading. All the head Enneagram types have problems with anxiety. Type 5s typically find their self-worth in childhood and adolescence through their ability to know things deeply. This can be a blessing in the most healthy folks, but it can be a fault if it becomes a way of establishing how we value ourselves over others. Type 5s can collect and hoard their ‘wisdom’ and use it to try to gain ascendancy at the expense of others. This is a subtle but unpleasant sort of greed. It’s rooted in a fear of being inadequate.

I often think that establishing our type, whether in MBTI or Enneagram, can be helped a lot by looking at the negative aspects of the type. I found that exploring inferior Se helped me to confirm INFJ as my nearest match. Looking at the insecurity and the use of knowledge to establish my social rank in my adolescence confirmed my E5 as most likely. The E5 was not an ideal by itself though and it’s only when I looked in depth at E5W4 that I found a plausible home in that type system.

I think that a major characteristic of E6 is that this type is a born follower. In its intermediate levels and below, in health terms, E6 folks go with the herd and feel dangerously exposed if they are socially out of place in terms of world view and opinion. E5 types will also go along with the crowd when things don’t matter, but their private views are anything but conventional, and they don’t give a damn about the crowd on things that matter to them. E6 will typically get their sense of identity from the crowd they attach to, E5s from what they know.

Incidentally, E4s have a problem with their identity - many of them don’t know who they are really. They try to find themselves in the eyes of others, but at the same time they are highly individualistic - so they can end up in an identity dilemma. I don’t think that E5 or 6 usually have any problems with their own identity - they may be wrong in who they think they are but they have no doubts in it, whatever they see themselves to be.

This is all steam of consciousness so I hope it makes sense.

 

[Princess Zucchini]

@Princess Zucchini I think the way that the faults associated with each Enneagram type are expressed can be rather misleading. All the head Enneagram types have problems with anxiety. Type 5s typically find their self-worth in childhood and adolescence through their ability to know things deeply. This can be a blessing in the most healthy folks, but it can be a fault if it becomes a way of establishing how we value ourselves over others. Type 5s can collect and hoard their ‘wisdom’ and use it to try to gain ascendancy at the expense of others. This is a subtle but unpleasant sort of greed. It’s rooted in a fear of being inadequate.

I often think that establishing our type, whether in MBTI or Enneagram, can be helped a lot by looking at the negative aspects of the type. I found that exploring inferior Se helped me to confirm INFJ as my nearest match. Looking at the insecurity and the use of knowledge to establish my social rank in my adolescence confirmed my E5 as most likely. The E5 was not an ideal by itself though and it’s only when I looked in depth at E5W4 that I found a plausible home in that type system.

I think that a major characteristic of E6 is that this type is a born follower. In its intermediate levels and below, in health terms, E6 folks go with the herd and feel dangerously exposed if they are socially out of place in terms of world view and opinion. E5 types will also go along with the crowd when things don’t matter, but their private views are anything but conventional, and they don’t give a damn about the crowd on things that matter to them. E6 will typically get their sense of identity from the crowd they attach to, E5s from what they know.

Incidentally, E4s have a problem with their identity - many of them don’t know who they are really. They try to find themselves in the eyes of others, but at the same time they are highly individualistic - so they can end up in an identity dilemma. I don’t think that E5 or 6 usually have any problems with their own identity - they may be wrong in who they think they are but they have no doubts in it, whatever they see themselves to be.

This is all steam of consciousness so I hope it makes sense.

There's a lot here that's really well thought-out, so sorry if this is an oversimplification, but based on what you're saying, my beef with both 4 and 6 is their dependence on reputation, which I see as a fleeting and not very important thing. I see the public eye as ephemeral and unreliable, and ultimately, unimportant. If I show up my best, I get targeted for criticism, whereas downplaying my strengths makes me charming: therefore, it doesn't matter. If I have a group of friends, I'll try to make 1 or 2 good friendships before I know the group will eventually combust. The people I do form attachments to embed themselves into me in the way a bullet wound would: I could pull it out and survive without it, but it would be painful. This is unless someone has actually encroached too much into my boundaries, in which case, I have no trouble cutting them off and forgetting them. I don't have trouble knowing who I am, but what I am to others, probably because my life experiences are very different from most people. Maybe a little worse, not totally, but definitely very different from and hard to relate to for others. In that regard, I have to wear a simple mask to seem relatable: only talk about experiences that I know people will understand. This is one reason why I have to trust myself, because there's no social mirror for my life, experiences, or many things I've gone through, only my memory. If I was easily gaslit, I'd probably go insane.