30,000 gather for prayer and fasting. Is this the American response? | INFJ Forum

30,000 gather for prayer and fasting. Is this the American response?

Troisi

Troisi

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Jun 27, 2011
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[video=youtube;Yt5ZmHxdNWY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt5ZmHxdNWY&feature=related[/video]

"I would vote for [Rick Perry]. I would vote for him out of all the Republican candidates," said Buzz Park amid an audience which included youth groups, soccer moms and Christian bikers. "He is not afraid to say this is a problem and this is how to fix it [prayer and fasting]. Obama is not a leader."

Perry's previous attempts to invoke a higher power suggest that there are limits to the power of prayer. In April, he declared a three-day vigil for rain in Texas. But those prayers have so far gone unanswered, and the state is still suffering its worst drought since 1895

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/07/rick-perrys-call-to-prayer

Yesterday's 30,000 demonstration has sparked some questions in my mind about the psyche of the American population. In moment's of crisis we seem to buckle our knees and cry out to a higher power, fervently expecting a hero to bail us out of our troubles. During the 9/11 tragedy we had a similar reaction. What does this say about us?

This demonstration does worry me quite a bit. In moments of fear our nation seems to willingly unite in mass hysteria, look upon the lord and his chosen leader to guide us through the valley of darkness. Fear, deindividualization into masses, followers fueled by religious zeal, a chosen leader: why are we priming ourselves for something terrible?

I'm not saying the U.S. is headed down an inevitable road of fascism but I do wonder if we're gathering the ingredients for it.

What do you make of this demonstration? What does it say about us and where do you think we're heading as a nation?
 
Personally, I think he had every right to do this; I mean, i know people would be upset, but so much for freedom.

The funding was private, and aside from the fact that he is a political figure, i don't think it outright violated any separation of church and state. If Americans such as myself feel that the nation needs prayer, why not let Perry do this?

He's just exercising his American rights and Christian beliefs.
 
RememberWhenItRained said:
Personally, I think he had every right to do this; I mean, i know people would be upset, but so much for freedom.

The funding was private, and aside from the fact that he is a political figure, i don't think it outright violated any separation of church and state. If Americans such as myself feel that the nation needs prayer, why not let Perry do this?

He's just exercising his American rights and Christian beliefs.
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I'm sure they all dotted their i's and crossed their t's with this and I don' think there has been any violation legally.

My question is: How healthy is it for a nation to unite together zealously under an ideology? Are we a nation headed that direction? Furthermore, isn't our war on terrorism, at the root of it, an effort to overcome a group of zealous idealist? Where do we draw the line?
 
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how healthy? that depends on what you view as healthy. For me personally, i think the closer we get to Judeo-Christian principles as a nation, the better, but i know most people don't share this opinion. If your talking about true freedom, than i suppose you could view this as a threat to other religious freedoms (focusing on one more than others.)
To look at where are nation is headed, that would require more of a long-term view that i don't have.

As far as the war on terrorism, yes, partially, i think it is.
 
Troisi said:
Furthermore, isn't our war on terrorism, at the root of it, an effort to overcome a group of zealous idealist? Where do we draw the line?
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At violence and coercion, I'm quite sure (at least that's the idea).


Heh, this makes me wonder if regimes of the past have gone passive and turned to God for help, only to find later that their problems did indeed get alleviated, although for reasons completely different from what they concluded.
 
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I was recently told it was in the American constitution that the church and state should be separate and was completely shocked. In the UK, we don't have a constitution, I guess we depend on laws, legislation and tradition. But although I guess we don't have anything written down to say the church and state should be separate, and we have a high population of Christians (though admittedly not as high as the US) there has been one mention of religion by a political leader in my memory (Tony Blair saying he would be judged by God for the Iraq war) at which there was a public outcry.

It's not my country and not my culture and I realise things are very different in the US. People actually probably have a similar psychological reaction to the UK - when threatened we are irrational. A friend of mine has studied parts of US culture and introduced me to the term agrarianism. This tends to be a US reaction, although obviously I'm looking at this from thousands of miles away. It is what some people may call a degressive reaction (though what is a progressive reaction anyway?) in that it is clinging to tradition. The one topic my friend was looking at was the reversal of some states of the legalisation of abortion - suddenly making it illegal again. This was theorised to be in connected to 9/11 - when under threat, seeking tradition makes people feel comfortable.

Christianity has maybe been a larger part of US tradition than the UK, although obviously its traditional here too. It seems to hold a lot less sway though. We also tend to hold on to our own during stress. Under threat, Britons become EVEN MORE xenophobic than they already are. I see this as just being the same thing. It's a run to tradition - to something that feels homely and safe. In the US, this means prayer. In the UK, we try to push out any threat from the others to regain what the BNP and EDL may call "native Britain" (or something), which, of course, never existed. There isn't one indigenous person in Britain, we're all immigrants, just like the US. But we've been around longer so we fool ourselves that there is such a thing as an indigenous British person and that's what Britons cling to under stress - they try to make things "as they were" and scapegoat the most recent wave of immigrants (in 1800s it was the Irish but you never hear about that anymore!)

Basically the root is sort of similar but not the same. The reactions are actually pretty far removed now I think about it, but I suppose what I'm saying is that the core is pretty similar - how can I feel safe?

To me, it seems that the US returns to the way it views itself - as a Christian nation, a place of purity and independence and freedom. To many, that includes a strong faith. I guess the UK is doing a similar thing - it's returning to the way it views itself - as an empire (superior to others).

Both reactions are crazy though I would argue that the US one is less immediately dangerous. Were it to get out of hand, well strong ideology like this can indeed be dangerous, but even though the UK reaction seems slightly less insane (to atheists anyway) it could do a lot more damage in the immediate future. When it comes to long-term - I don't know. It depends on how many people take the Godly view, and also on how many literally expect it to fix things. A recent study suggested 10 per cent need to believe in something for the rest of the population to follow suit (which is unbelievably small isn't it?) but you'd have to be under a lot of threat for that to happen. I guess you are, really. Let's see how the economy goes!

EDIT: An easier way to say what I tried to there, that is existent in, well all countries I imagine, is "If things hadn't got out of hand, this wouldn't have happened"

In the UK: If immigration hadn't got out of hand, the unemployment rate wouldn't be so high (it's actually the opposite by the way, the UK has a strong need for immigration and jobs aren't finite)
In the US: If we hadn't moved away from the Judeo-Christian rules we were supposed to be following, this wouldn't have happened.

Replace "this wouldn't have happened" to "things would be better" - either way. It's the feeling that the problems have been caused by getting too far away from "what is tradition/what is right/what is the US/what we're stand for" you know...that kind of thing.
 
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Who ever picked out that shirt collar needs to get fired.
 
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I live in Rick Perry's Texas....not too impressed. Frankly, I think it is another attempt to co-opt religious sentiment for political gain. Such manipulations have gone on for a long time...I suppose I am hyper-sensitive to any abuse in this regard. I do not mean this to judge him or his motives personally...but big media events of this sort creep me out.
 
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Just food for thought

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Trebuchet][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Trebuchet]"All mass movements, as one might expect, slip with the greatest ease down an inclined plane represented by large numbers. Where the many are, there is security; what the many believe must of course be true; what the many want must be worth striving for, and necessary, and therefore good.

In the clamor of the many there lies the power to snatch wish fulfillments by force; sweetest of all, however, is that gentle and painless slipping back into the kingdom of childhood, into the paradise of parental care, into happy-go-luckiness and irresponsibility. All the thinking and looking after are done from the top; to all questions there is an answer; and for all needs the necessary provision is made. The infantile dream state of the mass man is so unrealistic that he never thinks to ask who is paying for this paradise. The balancing of accounts is left to a higher political or social authority, which welcomes the task, for its power is thereby increased; and more helpless the individual becomes.

Wherever social conditions of this type develop on a large scale the road to tyranny lies open and the freedom of the individual turns into spiritual and physical slavery." [/FONT][/FONT]

Carl Jung-The Undiscovered Self
 
That seems like a small ripple from a drop of rain in an ocean of troubled souls.
 
<~~ an american


americans are fucking stupid.
 
Something a lot of people do not realize is that the U.S. is very conservative when it comes to religion relative to other developed countries.

I think this is just a political stunt. I think he is using religion to advance his political career.
 
To be honest the sentiment kind of pisses me off. The united states is an over privileged country, (and this is coming from an american.) To think our problems here are severe enough that we need to be calling out to an "higher power" is laughable at best. By trying to pray it all away so to speak it also takes our focus off of how to come up with positive solutions to the problems that we are having.
 
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Yes, the religious culture here is pretty tricky, potentially dangerous, and difficult to navigate, especially for the uninitiated. That's not to say there are not plenty of people of good-will and good-conscience about....it's just that there is also this mass-culture formed around religion that can make for some very tough sailing. Even moreso when the "group" flexes it's marketing muscle. Lots of murky business afoot.

I can see why some people turn against it, I surely can.
 
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Aaah, well. Human nature, I guess ? People want someone to rely on.... And it just so happens that for 30000 people, this one is the one that touches their heart.

Maybe they felt like they have tried and tried and it still gives nothing, so..... OH GOD SAVE US.

It has a taste of privileged people. A taste of laziness and waiting for the giant silver spoon from heaven to feed them all and rescue themselves for this hellhole, but eeh, I don't know their heart.
 
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To be honest the sentiment kind of pisses me off. The united states is an over privileged country, (and this is coming from an american.) To think our problems here are severe enough that we need to be calling out to an "higher power" is laughable at best. By trying to pray it all away so to speak it also takes our focus off of how to come up with positive solutions to the problems that we are having.
Click to expand...

To make it even funnier, the political elite also tend to be very wealthy.
 
hey look over there, is that religious tolerance? Wait, nope guess not.
 
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