Why Socialism According to Einstein | Page 4 | INFJ Forum

Why Socialism According to Einstein

Just because you don't currently understand it Jim, doesn't mean that its' nonsense!

"Just because you don't currently understand it Jim, only means that it is nonsense to you." This is a more factually accurate statement; what you said previously would be factually incorrect. He correctly used the word 'nonsense' by your own admission; you are clearly disagreeing about its inferential meaning.

I happen to agree with Jim's implication. You communicate vaguely and lack clarity.
 
"Just because you don't currently understand it Jim, only means that it is nonsense to you." This is a more factually accurate statement; what you said previously would be factually incorrect. He correctly used the word 'nonsense' by your own admission; you are clearly disagreeing about its inferential meaning.

I happen to agree with Jim's implication. You communicate vaguely and lack clarity.

I understand it fine; it's just diatribe and lacks understanding of reality.
 
Yes I'm very used to the approach of the political right which is to shy away from the issues and to instead insult and ridicule the person they are debating with; very predictable

Einstein had a grasp of the issues, i have a grasp of the issues but you two seem to be too busy spending your time trying to launch personal attacks rather than trying to gain a grasp of the issues

The reality is simple.

The corporations have usurped the political system. They are forcing 'austerity measures' on the public which is driving society towards a state of neo-fuedalism

ACD posted a very good interview with the journalist Chris Hedges on the government doesn't work thread. He has a wealth of experience in the areas he discusses and as a writer of numerous books is clearly a clear and coherent communicator

To pour more light on these issues i also recommend that you watch any clips on youtube of the US economist Michael Hudson that you can find. Hudson is a professor in a university in the US and acts as an advisor to governments; as well as the pulitzer prize winning Chris Hedges, Hudson also uses the term 'neo-fuedalism' to describe the state that we are drifting into.

I mention these illustrious commentators because they will no doubt prove a little harder for you to brush off as 'crazy', 'stupid', 'absurd' etc than a random person on the internet

However you have already tried to discredit the world renowned scientist Einstein so i wouldn't put anything past you!
 
Last edited:
What a great tragedy and irony that a genius like youself, muir, on par intellectually with Einstein can't manage to convince a corporate sheep, such as myself, of the reality of its situation. O muir, whatever fate shall befall me now without your guidance to prevail upon me!?!?

“Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.” - Albert Einstein

In George Gamow's autobiography, My World Line (1970), he says of Einstein: "Much later, when I was discussing cosmological problems with Einstein, he remarked that the introduction of the cosmological term was the biggest blunder of his life."

•Einstein emigrated to the U.S. in 1933 because of his concerns about the rise of the Nazi regime in Germany.
•He wrote a letter to Pres. Roosevelt in 1939, warning him that Germany might be developing an atomic bomb and suggesting that the U.S. should start its own research.
•It's thought that his letter to Roosevelt was the catalyst for the Manhattan Project, which produced the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
•Einstein never actually worked on the Manhattan Project.
•He later said that writing the letter was "the single greatest mistake" of his life.
 
What a great tragedy and irony that a genius like youself, muir, on par intellectually with Einstein can't manage to convince a corporate sheep, such as myself, of the reality of its situation. O muir, whatever fate shall befall me now without your guidance to prevail upon me!?!?

You're still trying to attack my character by portraying me as grandiose enough to compare myself with Einstein instead of dealing with the issues! You're also attacking Einstein instead of dealing with his points about socialism!


I've made some arguments and i've been ridiculed and insulted for making those arguments so i've pointed out how other people who are highly considered in their fields have also made similar points

What is the point you are now making about Einstein? Are you saying that because he considered some of his actions as blunders that his arguments about socialism are not credible?

At what point do you stop insulting and attacking on a personal level and actually try and discuss the thread?
 

You're still trying to attack my character by portraying me as grandiose enough to compare myself with Einstein instead of dealing with the issues! You're also attacking Einstein instead of dealing with his points about socialism!


I've made some arguments and i've been ridiculed and insulted for making those arguments so i've pointed out how other people who are highly considered in their fields have also made similar points

What is the point you are now making about Einstein? Are you saying that because he considered some of his actions as blunders that his arguments about socialism are not credible?

At what point do you stop insulting and attacking on a personal level and actually try and discuss the thread?

But muir, I have simply come to my senses about how reasonable you are, especially in discussion. Why is it now that you do not enlighten me further on how we accomplish the glory of the socialist era with a brilliant essay?
 
But muir, I have simply come to my senses about how reasonable you are, especially in discussion. Why is it now that you do not enlighten me further on how we accomplish the glory of the socialist era with a brilliant essay?

Well i can see that you're just itching to learn about socialism so may i humbly suggest that you watch the clip that ACD posted of the interview with Chris Hedges? It's pretty long but they question him on a range of topics and some of the more difficult issues of today

The OP has some interesting views on the subject from Einstein

It might be worth a look on the OWS website as well seeing as it is one of the most potent efforts by the public to challenge corporate fascism and lets face it its a phenomenon....certainly one of the most defining actions of our times

There are many different groups calling themselves 'socialist' but they vary in their views. I have some sympathies with the views of a group affiliated with the World Socialist Movement. This page on their website explains their view on socialism: http://www.worldsocialism.org/articles/what_is_socialism.php

What is Socialism?

Central to the meaning of socialism is common ownership. This means the resources of the world being owned in common by the entire global population.
But does it really make sense for everybody to own everything in common? Of course, some goods tend to be for personal consumption, rather than to share—clothes, for example. People 'owning' certain personal possessions does not contradict the principle of a society based upon common ownership.
In practice, common ownership will mean everybody having the right to participate in decisions on how global resources will be used. It means nobody being able to take personal control of resources, beyond their own personal possessions.
Democratic control is therefore also essential to the meaning of socialism. Socialism will be a society in which everybody will have the right to participate in the social decisions that affect them. These decisions could be on a wide range of issues—one of the most important kinds of decision, for example, would be how to organise the production of goods and services.
Production under socialism would be directly and solely for use. With the natural and technical resources of the world held in common and controlled democratically, the sole object of production would be to meet human needs. This would entail an end to buying, selling and money. Instead, we would take freely what we had communally produced. The old slogan of "from each according to ability, to each according to needs" would apply.
So how would we decide what human needs are? This question takes us back to the concept of democracy, for the choices of society will reflect their needs. These needs will, of course, vary among different cultures and with individual preferences—but the democratic system could easily be designed to provide for this variety.
We cannot, of course, predict the exact form that would be taken by this future global democracy. The democratic system will itself be the outcome of future democratic decisions. We can however say that it is likely that decisions will need to be taken at a number of different levels—from local to global. This would help to streamline the democratic participation of every individual towards the issues that concern them.
In socialism, everybody would have free access to the goods and services designed to directly meet their needs and there need be no system of payment for the work that each individual contributes to producing them. All work would be on a voluntary basis. Producing for needs means that people would engage in work that has a direct usefulness. The satisfaction that this would provide, along with the increased opportunity to shape working patterns and conditions, would bring about new attitudes to work.

Here's their suggestion on what to do: http://www.worldsocialism.org/articles/revolution_or_reform.php

Revolution or Reform?

Given all that we have said so far about capitalism, it seems obvious that something must be done. But what? Can capitalism be made to work differently? Or must there be a social revolution to replace capitalism with some other society? This is a debate that has raged for over a century.
The route of trying to change capitalism, or 'reform,' is the one that has been taken by most people who have wanted to improve society. We do not deny that certain reforms won by the working class have helped to improve our general living and working conditions. Indeed, we see little wrong with people campaigning for reforms that bring essential improvements and enhance the quality of their lives, and some reforms do indeed make a difference to the lives of millions and can be viewed as 'successful'. There are examples of this in such fields as education, housing, child employment, work conditions and social security. However, in this regard we also recognise that such 'successes' have in reality done little more than to keep workers and their families in efficient working order and, while it has taken the edge of the problem, it has rarely managed to remove the problem completely. What we are opposed to is the whole culture of reformism, the idea that capitalism can be made palatable with the right reforms, By that, we mean that we oppose those organisations that promise to deliver a programme of reforms on behalf of the working class, often in order that the organisation dishing out the promises can gain a position of power. Such groups, especially those of the left-wing, often have real aims quite different to the reform programme they peddle. In this, they are being as dishonest as any other politician, from the left or right. The ultimate result of this is disillusionment with the possibility of radical change.
If you are convinced, however, that groups or parties promising reforms deserve your support, we would urge you to consider the following points.
  1. The campaign, whether directed at right-wing or left-wing governments, will often only succeed if it can be reconciled with the profit-making needs of the system. In other words, the reform will often be turned to the benefit of the capitalist class at the expense of any working class gain.
  2. Any reform can be reversed and eroded later if a government finds it necessary.
  3. Reforms rarely, if ever, actually solve the problem they were intended to solve.
This was summed up by William Morris over a century ago: "The palliatives over which many worthy people are busying themselves now are useless because they are but unorganised partial revolts against a vast, wide-spreading, grasping organisation which will, with the unconscious instinct of a plant, meet every attempt at bettering the conditions of the people with an attack on a fresh side." For more on William Morris, see William Morris: how we live and how we might live.
In other words, although individual reforms may be worthy of support, the political strategy of reformism—promising to win reforms on the behalf of others—is a roundabout that leads nowhere. Those wanting to improve society should seriously question whether capitalism offers enough scope for achieving lasting solutions to the vast range of social problems to which it gives rise. Of course, some improvements are made and some problems are alleviated. Yet new kinds of problem also arise in a society which is changing ever more rapidly, seeking new ways to make a profit.
Our website contains many examples illustrating the problems of reformism. As an introduction to some of the most important, see The problems of reformism.
Profit motive

The profit motive of capitalism is a major cause of the problems we face in today's society: ever increasing inequality, poverty, alienation, crime, homelessness, environmental degradation—the list could go on and on. There are countless ways in which the working class (and indeed the capitalist class) suffer as a result of the profit system. Unless we organise for an alternative, the profit system will continue on its blind, unswerving path.
But what is the alternative?
 
Last edited: