White Knight Narcissism (Pro-Social NPD) | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

White Knight Narcissism (Pro-Social NPD)

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by Hostarius, Feb 1, 2020.

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  1. ruji

    ruji Well-known member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Pin

    Pin "Magnificent Bastard" / Ren's Counterpart

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    For the past week I've been waking up at around 5 or 6 am to study. I start clinicals on Monday. And... I'm doing well for myself, especially for the person I was a few years ago.

    Today is my rest day.
     
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  3. Pin

    Pin "Magnificent Bastard" / Ren's Counterpart

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    That would be me if I didn't have other priorities. :cry:
     
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  4. OP
    Hostarius

    Hostarius Your Kryptonian BFF

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    Good news, man. Keep going.
     
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  5. OP
    Hostarius

    Hostarius Your Kryptonian BFF

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    :neutral:
     
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  6. ruji

    ruji Well-known member

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    Jesus has given you a righteous duty to stay away from that booty
     
  7. Pin

    Pin "Magnificent Bastard" / Ren's Counterpart

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    I'm grateful for it because I'm not really missing out on anything. The fantasy doesn't come until you've made a place for yourself in the world.
     
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  8. ruji

    ruji Well-known member

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    The fantasy is an illusion
    Illusions are easier than you think
     
  9. Pin

    Pin "Magnificent Bastard" / Ren's Counterpart

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    Illusions are easier than I think? What?
     
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  10. ruji

    ruji Well-known member

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    Yeah, like the one you're creating for yourself
     
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  11. Pin

    Pin "Magnificent Bastard" / Ren's Counterpart

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    Huh?
     
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  12. Maikl Jexocuha

    Maikl Jexocuha Space Cowboy
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    I don't think so. I'd just call it "survival"
     
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  13. Peppermint

    Peppermint Well-known member

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    Gonna have to translate from ruji here

    He's referring to your belief that once you're successful and made a place for yourself you will have access to to things like prosperity and women. That's not necessarily true. That's why he's calling it an illusion.
     
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  14. dragulagu

    dragulagu Galactic Explorer

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    Having gone through the topic over and over again, it seems the whole White Knight Narcissism blog post is a misinterpretation of another form that is Vulnerable Narcissism, that one is an actual official form of NPD.

    I've added a paper that will give some light on it in regards to the correlation with Empathy. The original articles have mixed up 2 different disorders, as the OP and other people already have noticed. And only a clinical diagnosis will do a proper diagnostic and I doubt any of you here are Narcissistic.

    @Hostarius , check the spoiler.


    I'm adding this post because I do see these characteristics in myself and while I'm not officially clinically diagnosed either I see these traits as important to resolve.

    Being someone who has bonding and self-esteem issues myself through my whole life and using the white knight method to seek self-healing when in a depth point, which I am aware of and hate doing. When empathy is used for selfish or rather destructive reasons to others or oneself, it is bad.

    And let me state that I don’t have a need to exploit friends or people that i care about in real life, and if anything when I would be hurt/mad I rather direct that anger somewhere else than at them. Sometimes it is directed to this forum and that’s why I put a block on my general attitude here. Again, I am aware of that. And I don't want this.

    This is not a request for support or understanding, I don't need that. It's just my expression and apology to this forum to say I'm working on it and doing my best to focus on both my boundaries as well as anyone's on this forum, that matters. I don't want to focus this thread on me either, thats not the intention with this post. I just hope that this paper will at least give some light on the subject.

    When you asked me to make a thread on this subject, I wasn't aware of the implications on the forum, neither that it had impacted you, I'm sorry for that. You are a good person and got clear reasoning all over the forum. Keep at it man.
    Does it matter though? If Pin is focused on a good future for himself, all the better. Builds character.
     

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  15. StanleyBarBaDoS

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    Pretty absurd concept IMO. Everyone needs some small amount of healthy narcissism. This is the same as self-esteem. You build this up with real actions and accomplishments. How else?
     
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  16. Ren

    Ren Pin's android / The Maker / ≅ INFP

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    I think your responses to these questions show good self-awareness, Hos. My external viewpoint (with its limitations of course) would align pretty much with your internal viewpoint. And given the alignment here, if we just look at your answers, then it's obvious that you don't showcase enough traits to count as a 'White Knight narcissist'.

    What is perhaps more interesting to look at is the 'tendency' you refer to here:

    Do you have an 'internal grid' of sorts where you first determine whether there is a risk of scapegoating?

    My honest opinion is that I've seen that risk appear very rarely on the forum. Most of the 'assholes' were deliberate in their intentions and got the spanking they deserved, imo. I guess based on that premise, your decision to stick up for the 'underdog' would seem arbitrary and even possibly counter-productive. So I'm interested to know if you disagree with my premise, and if you have evidence for that disagreement. Basically: do you have in mind concrete examples of scapegoating on the forum?
     
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  17. Fidicen

    Fidicen Community Member

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    I can think of instances when I've seen that, and I haven't even been on the forum that much lately. But I'll let Hos answer this himself in more detail if he wishes to. I've seen this forum be very quick to judge newcomers if one of the regulars feels offended, and established members are viewed more sympathetically even when they throw tantrums. I guess it's just human, but as Hos said, it's good to be aware of our biases.

    In recent years I've started taking more time choosing sides, because often indeed we judge situations hastily based on 'obvious' victims. Both arguing people are most likely behaving in a way that to them seems rational and justified, yet it's easier for us to side with the person who seems more sympathetic or vulnerable or just more offended, and think the other person is irrational and horrible. In real life it's rare (for me) to meet anyone who wouldn't have good intentions, even though they may behave in ways I don't understand. In MBTI terms you could say I'm becoming aware of how flawed the quick Ni judgement can be, and how it needs the support of the thinking function in particular. Some people are also very good at using vulnerability as social capital, manipulating others to take their side when no real harm has been intended. It quickly turns into a competition on who can most convincingly show how offended they are, and hence what an arse the opponent is.

    Also, especially when there's bitterness involved, people breaking up etc., they may disparage each other, even say things that clearly aren't true. It may be difficult for an outsider to determine who's the victim, if anyone, yet on account of friendships or gender bias we tend to draw conclusions very quickly. Narcissism is actually one of those labels that's often put on someone when relationships go sour, and the accusation is now so common that most people have learned to take a similar step back and reconsider whether it is actually true or just the post-breakup bitterness behind such judgements.
     
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  18. OP
    Hostarius

    Hostarius Your Kryptonian BFF

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    You'll forgive me for not mentioning names here and speaking in generalities, but yes:

    1. The clearest cases are when friends are being attacked in private without their knowledge, and in that case I'll adopt this role.

    2. With the 'public arseholes', it's a question of balance and proportion. My decisions aren't arbitrary, but based upon the community response to the level of the offense. I defended ClevelandINTP in public as well as in private, and he stuck around to keep adding value to the community - he could easily have been booted off the back of feeling like he had no allies and the runaway response of people calling him a dick.


    However, it's not simply about cases like this in isolation, but in carving a groove where one can adopt these positions and not have it affect preexisting relationships. If people can think to themselves 'oh that's just Hos doing his underdog white knight thing; it doesn't mean he's attacking me or hates me now, but that he's trying to balance this discussion. I'll listen, see if he has a point on this or not, and re-judge my take on this.' I think @Wyote got this very early on. I would like this kind of behaviour to be normalised, ideally, because it serves the purpose of 'the centre'; the public forum (again, ancient sense), and democratic mindsets.
     
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  19. Lady Jolanda

    Lady Jolanda Anti-glitch Bitch
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    Well ideally people always think "Oh that's just someone offering up a different point of view, let's think about that" regardless of who it is, rather than "someone's attacking me", but that's not very realistic I'm afraid.
     
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  20. OP
    Hostarius

    Hostarius Your Kryptonian BFF

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    It could be.

    Culture has the capacity to overwrite/bypass/rewire almost any aspect of 'human nature'. I'm convinced of this.
     
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