What if people had inalienable property and assets instead/aswell as rights?

Lark

Lark

Rothchildian Agent
MBTI
ENTJ
Enneagram
9
What if everyone had a legacy and wages were not the source of subsistence and everyone were practically independently wealthy?

Like you had individually some assets or property which you could use to generate further income but which you could not destroy or permanently dispose of?
 
Impossible. Someone would always have something that someone else wanted and someone would always be willing to sell it.
 
You could put all the land and means of production into a trust for all the people...common ownership

The fruits of which would be available to all

Private ownership could be confined to small portable items
 
If everyone is wealthy then no one is wealthy.
 
the said:
If everyone is wealthy then no one is wealthy.
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No, I was thinking more in terms of something like a stock of shares which you could invest in whatever public services or other firms you choose but which you couldnt permanently dispose of for a profit, ie you make decisions about how to get maximum return but you cant get a final settlement by dumping them.

Its not about everyone being wealthy but everyone having the same opportunity to make investment decisions and exercise some kind of financial responsibility, it'd be a total alternative system of welfare and possibly independent of government social policy altogether, ie cant be cut or increased by tax and spend decisions.
 
Lark said:
No, I was thinking more in terms of something like a stock of shares which you could invest in whatever public services or other firms you choose but which you couldnt permanently dispose of for a profit, ie you make decisions about how to get maximum return but you cant get a final settlement by dumping them.

Its not about everyone being wealthy but everyone having the same opportunity to make investment decisions and exercise some kind of financial responsibility, it'd be a total alternative system of welfare and possibly independent of government social policy altogether, ie cant be cut or increased by tax and spend decisions.
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So if some people make bad investments then we will be back to where we are today. What exactly are you getting when you invest here? What would be the point besides a slightly different form of capitalism?
 
Would there be a catalyst for working harder?
 
the said:
So if some people make bad investments then we will be back to where we are today. What exactly are you getting when you invest here? What would be the point besides a slightly different form of capitalism?
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I think different forms of capitalism might be a good idea, to see what works best, I think it would be good because it would make the decisions about investment in public services less of a political football or hot potato, it would also empower citizens as investors over service managers who would have to pursue funding from the public directly rather than politicians or ministers, I can think of a bunch of reasons.

Although the best would be that while really successful investors would get max returns everyone would have their own source of income other than benefits supplied from taxes, that pool of money is shrinking, it looks set to continue to do so because of politics, ie libertarianism is popular and taps a lot of the confused zeitgheist, and power, ie bankers could give a shit about anything other than return and that includes the available taxable money for circulation of money in the economy.

Unless there's a plan be soon the economy is just going to be subject to worse and worse crisis with Biff Tannon/John Galts watching rome burn with the full conviction that more of the same poison is needed to correct things.
 
just me said:
Would there be a catalyst for working harder?
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What's the catalyst now?

There is ALWAYS going to be more people who are convinced that not enough is more real than too much and of the remaining population who arent motivated, well, who cares? Seriously, I think the moral panics about that population do a more harm than good, you dont nix the entire system because of the few abusing it, surely that's a big part of the reason we still have capitalist societies.
 
Doctors working 80 hour weeks do so for the money and retirement, travel and general enjoying life, would not work 80 hour weeks any longer.


Research and development: why work countless hours to make something work? Medicines and cures: why spend the money to go to college and learn how to work the brain 100 hour weeks for a warm feeling?

The majority of the infj would most likely continue to satisfy their hearts and minds, knowing they were helping to make a better world for people to live in. Others that "get it" would most likely help. There are a lot of freeloaders out there that would eventually cause disrespect for one's actions. People have the abilities to make things work, but the few are far outweighed by the many.
 
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I think we need incentives to make things work. For example, the government pays people not to work at times. People take advantage of that and stay home. People get lazy. People start expecting someone else to care for them. Helped a man make $750 last week in two days to finish a job. His answer when offered the job? "I won't have to work for another two weeks."
 
just me said:
Doctors working 80 hour weeks do so for the money and retirement, travel and general enjoying life, would not work 80 hour weeks any longer.
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And if you had more Drs because the availability of subsistence guarantees permits more people to train as doctors and none of them have to work the eighty hours a week?

I kind of think its a good idea not to have overworked Drs, whatever their motivations, because thats when mistakes are made.

I'm detecting the underpinning idea that the stick is more important than the carrot in incentivisation here.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Impossible. Someone would always have something that someone else wanted and someone would always be willing to sell it.
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Hmm, if you're saying people will try to defraud it then sure, there's great stories about people behaving as con artists already, catch me if you can is a great one, but it doesnt mean that people dont have inalienable rights are those rights really illusionary somehow?

The idea that they are illusionary or at least empty when you compare them to the availability of assets or property or wealth was part of the reason I hit upon this idea.
 
just me said:
I think we need incentives to make things work. For example, the government pays people not to work at times. People take advantage of that and stay home. People get lazy. People start expecting someone else to care for them. Helped a man make $750 last week in two days to finish a job. His answer when offered the job? "I won't have to work for another two weeks."
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And he worked after that two weeks?

Anyway, the allegorical stories about people refusing work are popular these days, I know of about a dozen real examples of people taking work for every one I hear though.

The government that pays people not to work is a strange one, here that would be an abuse of the benefits system, fraud with malintent and you'd lose your benefits, maybe its different where ever you happen to be.

Personally, I say good luck to them, if they want to live on a low income and scratch together an existence then leave them to it, provided they are not intefering with anyone else. I'm not envious of that kind of existence, I make it a point not to be envious of others per se. However what motivates me is not making ends meet its some sort of prosperity, otherwise I'd settle for bread and water instead of the coffee and finer foods I enjoy.

If seriously tested I would bet that the novelty of inertia would wear off pretty quickly.
 
Man shall live by the sweat of his brow. I do not think our culture is ready to take on such noble ways of living. Look at Missouri: people from every political group in the country are rushing in to show they do not believe in equal rights' implementation. They are asking for what they have already. People are selfish. They use excuses to show their true colors, then hide behind a color they believe in when the excuses die down. This is true everywhere in the world.


What about minorities? Elderly? Maimed? Sick? We have programs to help those in need. Destroy that which is, and one had best have a way to replace it all. When the minority groups come expecting better treatment, what would one do?
 
Where I live, they will sell your property at the courthouse steps if you fail to pay your total taxes due at the end of the year. The older people get, among many other scenarios, the more difficult it is to just keep up with daily chores, work, and living expenses; then the tax bills come. What legacy?

Knew a woman who had to sell her deep water property in a small community near here because of property taxes. When people see someone in trouble, the vultures in the area go to work. She was lucky to have sold her property before it was taken. It was a third generation home of great magnitude in a historic area on the Intracoastal Waterway. She moved into a cheap trailer outside the county. Legacy.
 
Lark said:
Hmm, if you're saying people will try to defraud it then sure, there's great stories about people behaving as con artists already, catch me if you can is a great one, but it doesnt mean that people dont have inalienable rights are those rights really illusionary somehow?

The idea that they are illusionary or at least empty when you compare them to the availability of assets or property or wealth was part of the reason I hit upon this idea.
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Partly. Look at it this way. Give me a piece of land say in.. New York. I say I really want a piece of land on the pacific coast. In fact there is a specific piece of land I want. Why does the person who has it now get to have it? Does someone think they are more deserving than me that they get to have that land? The same with the area in which I live. The amount of stores I have to choose from etc. There will always be something that someone else wants that they dont have. To include people and possessions. This is human nature fact.
 
just me said:
Where I live, they will sell your property at the courthouse steps if you fail to pay your total taxes due at the end of the year. The older people get, among many other scenarios, the more difficult it is to just keep up with daily chores, work, and living expenses; then the tax bills come. What legacy?

Knew a woman who had to sell her deep water property in a small community near here because of property taxes. When people see someone in trouble, the vultures in the area go to work. She was lucky to have sold her property before it was taken. It was a third generation home of great magnitude in a historic area on the Intracoastal Waterway. She moved into a cheap trailer outside the county. Legacy.
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This is the type of thing that used to upset me a great deal. However the government counts on people saying so long as it doesnt happen to me I am fine with it. And they are until its on their doorstep. The judges etc who pro ess these things also say "hey I didnt make the law, I just uphold it" and wash their hands as well. But somewhere is there person(s) who actually enacted the law to begin with. Always behind the scenes never in the spotlight.
 
Just saying, take a group of people and the news media to the courthouse and they will still sell your property for the taxes owed. If someone pays ten times what is owed, you have lost your property to the system who cares about nothing more than more money. Realtors make their millions. Buyers make their hundreds of thousands. Older people get the screw in the back.

I'd also bet if someone did not come up with some money, those bankers still came and took the property later.
 
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