Wage Gap

[Apone]

Here's some extremely cheerful news about your salary!

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/average_after-tax_income.pdf

Wages (after taxes) for the top 1% have gone up over 400% in the past 20 years, the salaries for people in the top earners category have at least doubled. The highest quintile still makes more than double what the second highest quintile earns.

And yet wages for the middle middle class haven't even gone up 25%… and this was before the crash.

I don't even want to think about what it must be like to be in the bottom quintile-- wages have basically stagnated since the 1970s… and actually went down for 15 years before a tiny recovery and then an all-time high of less than 10% growth before the crash wiped them out completely. The second quintile isn't faring much better-- a reduction in wages under Reagan followed by a 15-year climb to recovery during the Clinton era, and finally an all-time high of less than 9% gain.

Here's another handy reference to figure out just how fucked you are when adjusted for inflation:

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

Enter the average middle middle class salary in 1985 ($43,200) and see how much it is worth in 2007 dollars.
It's $82,211.44.

Now compare that to the average middle class salary in 2007

82,211-
55,300

That's $26,911 that your parents had every year, and you don't (assuming you're in the middle class).

Have a nice day!

(Any comments before muir gets here?)

 

[the]

The chart is talking about income, not wages. I don't think the top 1% even works for a wage the same way middle class does: Investments vs. actual labor.

 

[Apone]

^Right, sorry… it's the income gap.

 

[Lerxst]

Nice to know where I stand in that bottom category for the past 8 years.

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

Research the "2 income trap". It's a big contributor to why this has happened. It might not be what some of you want to hear but sometimes the truth is hard to swallow. I know I've posted this before but oh wells I'll post it again.

[video=youtube_share;akVL7QY0S8A]http://youtu.be/akVL7QY0S8A[/video]

 

[Apone]

Oh wait-- ignore all of that stuff about the inflation-- it actually does say at the top of the chart that it's in 2007 dollars.
The rest is okay though.

EDIT: In the excellent video that [MENTION=5375]chulo[/MENTION] posted she says that wages have mostly stagnated/gone down-- and it makes sense, because the figures in the chart are actually household incomes, which would account for households with two earners… I really have to wonder what the average worker's wage would be if they were single income households as opposed to dual-income ones.

I really have to wonder why it's so hard to get this data… I suppose that there are a lot of conflicting sources and such but it would be great if someone knew of a site to go to that was a definitive authority on earnings statistics and how salaries have changed.

Also [MENTION=5375]chulo[/MENTION]-- I didn't see that video when you posted it before… it is pretty scary.

I know that this isn't really the point of the video, but the first thing I saw when she showed those graphs was why so many Americans want to resist public health care… if that's one of the big expenses that's constantly driving people into debt, why would anyone in their right mind be against it? I don't fully understand how it is working in the US right now, but it would seem that if they made child care and health care public that end up solving a lot of the debt problems. Taxes might go up, but I'd imagine that the amount that they would go up by would still more than compensate for how much they would have to otherwise spend on insurance or things that aren't covered. It would also mean less brain drain from Canada…

 

[Kgal]

Research the "2 income trap". It's a big contributor to why this has happened. It might not be what some of you want to hear but sometimes the truth is hard to swallow. I know I've posted this before but oh wells I'll post it again.

[video=youtube_share;akVL7QY0S8A]http://youtu.be/akVL7QY0S8A[/video]

Why do you think the collapse is "coming"? It's here...

I'll go download the movie and watch it.

 

[muir]

I think Bill Still has some interesting things to say about it all (he correctly predicted the 2007-8 crash back in his 1996 film ''the money masters'')

Here's his latest film:

[video=youtube;swkq2E8mswI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI[/video]

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I would rather live in the bottom 20% of a first world society, than the top 20% of a third world society. The former enjoys various protections, while the latter is subject to constant threat.

It is precisely the top 2% in our society that make our society first world. They cannot exist in the developing world, like they do here. If one considers our society somewhat symbiotic, the benefits reaped by the bottom 98% are far more substantial than the advantage to the top 2%. Obviously this is not something which is measured in dollars, but in standard of living.

 

[muir]

I would rather live in the bottom 20% of a first world society, than the top 20% of a third world society. The former enjoys various protections, while the latter is subject to constant threat.

That's a sweeping generalisation; i've been to many majority world countries and the richest people there live like kings and queens behind ample protections

The top 20% of majority world countries have the wealth to go where they please and they do

'Threats' can take many forms. In the minority world we are facing unemployment, home repossessions, failing businesses and an attack on our civil liberties by the corporatocracy

It is precisely the top 2% in our society that make our society first world.

No it isn't...its a whole host of factors throughout history including imperialism

I strongly recommend the film i posted above to get some history behind banking in the west. The wealth has always been created by the economy of production and consumption.....the bankers don't produce anything they just extract interest

They cannot exist in the developing world, like they do here.

No there is wealth disparity there as well

If one considers our society somewhat symbiotic,

It is not 'symbiotic' the bankers are PARASITIC as they suck liquidity out of the economy causing it to recede ('recession')

the benefits reaped by the bottom 98% are far more substantial than the advantage to the top 2%. Obviously this is not something which is measured in dollars, but in standard of living.

That doesn't make any sense. If the top 2% had such a hard time they wouldn't work so hard to hoard all the wealth

 

[Flavus Aquila]

'Threats' can take many forms. In the minority world we are facing unemployment, home repossessions, failing businesses and an attack on our civil liberties by the corporatocracy

First world complaints.

 

[muir]

First world complaints.

No, food, work, shelter, education, security etc these are pretty universal

 

[Lerxst]

Oh wait-- ignore all of that stuff about the inflation-- it actually does say at the top of the chart that it's in 2007 dollars.
The rest is okay though.

EDIT: In the excellent video that @chulo posted she says that wages have mostly stagnated/gone down-- and it makes sense, because the figures in the chart are actually household incomes, which would account for households with two earners… I really have to wonder what the average worker's wage would be if they were single income households as opposed to dual-income ones.

I really have to wonder why it's so hard to get this data… I suppose that there are a lot of conflicting sources and such but it would be great if someone knew of a site to go to that was a definitive authority on earnings statistics and how salaries have changed.

Also @chulo-- I didn't see that video when you posted it before… it is pretty scary.

I know that this isn't really the point of the video, but the first thing I saw when she showed those graphs was why so many Americans want to resist public health care… if that's one of the big expenses that's constantly driving people into debt, why would anyone in their right mind be against it? I don't fully understand how it is working in the US right now, but it would seem that if they made child care and health care public that end up solving a lot of the debt problems. Taxes might go up, but I'd imagine that the amount that they would go up by would still more than compensate for how much they would have to otherwise spend on insurance or things that aren't covered. It would also mean less brain drain from Canada…

Thank you!!!

Until someone can actually prove otherwise, I'm going to have to say it's because we're a nation of a bunch of retarded f***ing idiots! We spend on our military, what most countries spend on their healthcare and vice versa. It's not like the money isn't there.

I work with a bunch of elderly people and each one of them complain about "Obamacare" and socialized this and that, but each one of them turns around and bitches about the cost of their medications and doctors' visits. And these are people who fit well in to that first column of (fixed) income.

No one has ever once provided for me a single, logical argument against a universal healthcare system in the US. They spew the same bullshit over and over again like "Doctors are going to run away from the country" etc etc etc, which has all been proven to be absolute crap by simply looking at the countries that already have this system in place (Canada, UK, Germany, France... and half the fucking world!).

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

I'm not sure what would work best for health care but I have a couple of doctors in my extended family. One is retired, he claims there is too much regulation and it brings the cost of health care up to unaffordable levels. The other, his daughter, recently finished her residency and tried to open a private practice but went out of business because she couldn't pay all the taxes and fees. She doesn't work as a doctor anymore because she refuses to work for a big corporation, so she is essentially a wasted doctor.

Both of them express anger about the amount of bureaucracy in the health care system driving up the cost for everyone and forcing it to become socialized. They both prefer the free market over socialism.

I've also heard compelling arguments for socialized healthcare but none from an actual doctor.