Turns out I'm surrounded! | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

Turns out I'm surrounded!

I find INTJs delightful but emotionally very challenging.

If it's ok with you, please do explain, I would love the insight and giving insight as well.

My dad is an INTJ, also my son, and one close friend, and my ex was an INTP. In those relationships, it often seems that the other person thinks my feelings are an uncomfortable liability that should not be brought into the relationship. Just a feeling I got. Maybe I'm a particularly "strong" F?? I don't know. So I feel emotionally challenged because I'm feeling like the other person is wishing my emotions did not exist or could be swept under the rug or gaslighted away. Not all of the time, not small emotions, but big emotions that are an essential part of who I am and how I process things. With all of these people, I frequently feel friction between my F and their T. I'm guessing they are far less aware of it than I am. But I know I make them uncomfortable when I bring feelings into the conversation. I make a lot of decisions based on intuition, not reason, and my general experience with Ts is that they fundamentally believe this is a flawed approach to decisionmaking. It puts me on guard, always defensive about my position, and that is not a comfortable place for me to always be in.

Granted, my test pool of close relationships is limited here, but for much of my 20s and 30s, my social group was full of Ts, and I felt that friction there as well. Things have shifted for me socially in the last 10 years, which is something of a great relief. Having more Fs in my life feels more comfortable.

I should add that I "speak T" well and can get along with INTJs and INTPs, but doing so usually means I'm repressing my F needs, and that is what feels uncomfortable.

I would love to hear your insights on how I may have gotten this wrong or how better to work with these relationships in a way that allows me to remain congruent with my F but not make the INTJ uncomfortable.
 
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Great story @worthy it sounds like my type of party! I've been itching to get my friends back together to have my own recharge party.

What kind of consulting do you do?

Thank you for asking, @Daustus. I know, it's interesting to me that I can both be an introvert and need recharge parties! I'm an administrative consultant. I work with small business owners to help them get organized, increase their efficiency and productivity, and feel less overwhelmed by the admin responsibilities of their business. It's perfect for me -- I meet with clients weekly one-on-one, then work at home the rest of the time, processing what they've thrown at me into clear bullet points, helping them identify and work toward goals, and problem-solving for them. So I get to work alone AND one-on-one...both satisfying...and I have a lot of flexibility. It's a surprisingly creative job; I love problem-solving and helping people feel better about their work.
 
Was there something in the air in your town, @worthy? I was in your town the other night and had an amazing experience with people I love and music. I almost sent you a message so we could meet up, but I didn't think you would be checking the forum at prime non-computer time on a weekend night, and I'm not sure I'm ready to take the plunge with meeting forum people face-to-face just yet. LOL! (Still, I kept thinking, "I hope Worthy is here!" LOL! I didn't think you would be. Not your type of music.)

It was an inspiring, soul-touching experience. The performance by my friend was phenomenal.
Your town is lovely. I liked visiting so, so much. The people were so nice and supportive at the event.

In any case, I'm so happy you feel surrounded by your people and deeply connected, 'soul connected' to some of them. Who cares if some are mistyped? Even sharing a type doesn't guarantee we'll always feel deeply connected to a person, and what matters is that you do feel this connection with others. <3
You are so lucky to share type and/or dominant functions with your kids.

Regardless of type, all types go through times where we feel misunderstood and alone, too. I guess that is when we need to remember there are people who want to understand us, even when they don't. :)

LOL about your son's girlfriend. Yes, INTJs can have a bit of a barrier around their emotions. I love that. :) Haha.

How fun that you were here! So glad you enjoyed the concert. I'm guessing there was something at the Stone Church? As I'm sure you know, there are always multiple conflicting arts events happening here. It's a burden of riches. We probably have people in common.

I am feeling very lucky, especially now that it has really hit me that I am not actually alone.

I would be open to meeting sometime. Maybe this summer (July/August). Check in with me then if you feel up for it!
 
My dad is an INTJ, also my son, and one close friend, and my ex was an INTP. In those relationships, it often seems that the other person thinks my feelings are an uncomfortable liability that should not be brought into the relationship. Just a feeling I got. Maybe I'm a particularly "strong" F?? I don't know. So I feel emotionally challenged because I'm feeling like the other person is wishing my emotions did not exist or could be swept under the rug or gaslighted away. Not all of the time, not small emotions, but big emotions that are an essential part of who I am and how I process things. With all of these people, I frequently feel friction between my F and their T. I'm guessing they are far less aware of it than I am. But I know I make them uncomfortable when I bring feelings into the conversation. I make a lot of decisions based on intuition, not reason, and my general experience with Ts is that they fundamentally believe this is a flawed approach to decisionmaking. It puts me on guard, always defensive about my position, and that is not a comfortable place for me to always be in.
Well, my 'best-fit' type is INTJ and I positively encourage deep emotional conversations, and would consider myself very emotional and sentimental in general, which is probably why I initially mistyped as INFJ. I was just yesterday out with my INTJ friend (M; 61) and I thought he was INFJ 'like me' because of how emotional and sentimental he was, how much he emoted and talked about 'love', &c. Nope, he's INTJ, too.

Are you sure you aren't just imputing a type based upon whether that person 'seems' emotional or not? In my experience, there seems to be little correlation between the emotionality of the N-types, and F-types are just as likely to repress emotion or emotional subjects (again in my experience). In fact, the only correlation I can find is with attachment styles; avoidants of any type are more likely to shun emotion, and it's the Sensors who seem just flat-out unemotional.

This 'friction' you describe between 'your F and their T' should only really arise if you expect them to make (irrational) decisions based upon 'your F'; that is, you expect them to take action in the real world based upon a feeling, when logic dictates another course of action.
 
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How fun that you were here! So glad you enjoyed the concert. I'm guessing there was something at the Stone Church? As I'm sure you know, there are always multiple conflicting arts events happening here. It's a burden of riches. We probably have people in common.

I am feeling very lucky, especially now that it has really hit me that I am not actually alone.

I would be open to meeting sometime. Maybe this summer (July/August). Check in with me then if you feel up for it!


Yes. I looked for video to share. (I've seen some, but only on private FB accounts so far.) We probably do have people in common, which makes me happy. :)
And yes, we will see if we can have a meeting of INFJs this summer.
 
My dad is an INTJ, also my son, and one close friend, and my ex was an INTP. In those relationships, it often seems that the other person thinks my feelings are an uncomfortable liability that should not be brought into the relationship. Just a feeling I got. Maybe I'm a particularly "strong" F?? I don't know. So I feel emotionally challenged because I'm feeling like the other person is wishing my emotions did not exist or could be swept under the rug or gaslighted away. Not all of the time, not small emotions, but big emotions that are an essential part of who I am and how I process things. With all of these people, I frequently feel friction between my F and their T. I'm guessing they are far less aware of it than I am. But I know I make them uncomfortable when I bring feelings into the conversation. I make a lot of decisions based on intuition, not reason, and my general experience with Ts is that they fundamentally believe this is a flawed approach to decisionmaking. It puts me on guard, always defensive about my position, and that is not a comfortable place for me to always be in.

Granted, my test pool of close relationships is limited here, but for much of my 20s and 30s, my social group was full of Ts, and I felt that friction there as well. Things have shifted for me socially in the last 10 years, which is something of a great relief. Having more Fs in my life feels more comfortable.

I should add that I "speak T" well and can get along with INTJs and INTPs, but doing so usually means I'm repressing my F needs, and that is what feels uncomfortable.

I would love to hear your insights on how I may have gotten this wrong or how better to work with these relationships in a way that allows me to remain congruent with my F but not make the INTJ uncomfortable.

Hey @worthy , let me give you my experience. I've just been door-slammed by an INFJ colleague whom I was getting close with for this reason. It took me a couple hours to push through this emotionally and thank God i was alone at work, but it also gave me a lot of reflection. The problem with INTJ's (and T in general) is that we should understand that expressing your feelings is a way of going through a situation, trying to process it. The same as we INTJ's process our thoughts verbally. And as @Wyote said, your feelings are surprisingly private and expressing them to whom you trust is something very important to you.

I did not get to understand this in time...Instead I tried to solve the issues that were causing her emotional pain, as if it they were a project, so she would't be hurt anymore. This in return put her in more emotional stress because I made it a problem instead of trying to understand what she was going through, let her process it, hell even making the situation more bearable by joking. Eventually i tried to push her away so she would not be emotionally hurt anymore through my actions...and I though it was the most fair. And I was so so wrong...

This was the first time I ever felt the door slam...and it's cold and grieving. But after my reflection I understood where it went wrong and why she did it, so in a sense it is also fair. I cannot blame her as this one is my fault alone and an important lesson to learn from it. Had to steam this off for a second. And hopefully we can mend our relationship just a bit to make the situation somewhat comfortable...but knowing the door slam it'll be very hard...

This is something T's in general need to understand, that these feelings are important and should be respected instead of being waved off. Now from my experience with INFJ's now and in the past is that you tend to ooze your emotions to those that you trust, it's a lot of raw emotion (which I find beautiful) but I do understand that for heavy T's this will be overwhelming, it's a lot of emotion at once and T's do not have the quick emotional baggage to quickly and properly react upon it. I'd say try make them understand that it's part of how you process emotions (assuming they know what MBTI typology and the types are) and to just take a bit of time to hear you out first and listen. You do well to express your feelings to other F friends, they will understand it easier. Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.

Anyway, I got some more reflection/sobbing to do and going to train a bit...best way to steam of my emotional energy. Hope this helps you a bit.
 
Hey @worthy , let me give you my experience. I've just been door-slammed by an INFJ colleague whom I was getting close with for this reason. It took me a couple hours to push through this emotionally and thank God i was alone at work, but it also gave me a lot of reflection. The problem with INTJ's (and T in general) is that we should understand that expressing your feelings is a way of going through a situation, trying to process it. The same as we INTJ's process our thoughts verbally. And as @Wyote said, your feelings are surprisingly private and expressing them to whom you trust is something very important to you.

I did not get to understand this in time...Instead I tried to solve the issues that were causing her emotional pain, as if it they were a project, so she would't be hurt anymore. This in return put her in more emotional stress because I made it a problem instead of trying to understand what she was going through, let her process it, hell even making the situation more bearable by joking. Eventually i tried to push her away so she would not be emotionally hurt anymore through my actions...and I though it was the most fair. And I was so so wrong...

This was the first time I ever felt the door slam...and it's cold and grieving. But after my reflection I understood where it went wrong and why she did it, so in a sense it is also fair. I cannot blame her as this one is my fault alone and an important lesson to learn from it. Had to steam this off for a second. And hopefully we can mend our relationship just a bit to make the situation somewhat comfortable...but knowing the door slam it'll be very hard...

This is something T's in general need to understand, that these feelings are important and should be respected instead of being waved off. Now from my experience with INFJ's now and in the past is that you tend to ooze your emotions to those that you trust, it's a lot of raw emotion (which I find beautiful) but I do understand that for heavy T's this will be overwhelming, it's a lot of emotion at once and T's do not have the quick emotional baggage to quickly and properly react upon it. I'd say try make them understand that it's part of how you process emotions (assuming they know what MBTI typology and the types are) and to just take a bit of time to hear you out first and listen. You do well to express your feelings to other F friends, they will understand it easier. Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.

Anyway, I got some more reflection/sobbing to do and going to train a bit...best way to steam of my emotional energy. Hope this helps you a bit.
That sounds like a bit of an ordeal, @dragulagu, and a hurtful situation which isn't really anyone's fault. I hope you can feel better soon and resolve this.

I've got to say, though, that this isn't really my experience. When people confide in me I just listen and offer support, and occasionally articulate their feelings in words. When I was a teacher, students (of course), but especially colleagues, would spill their guts to me in long, emotional conversations, and afterwards they would feel cleansed and supported and very often stronger/happier. If they wanted/asked for a plan of action, only then would I give it to them, and even help them execute it if they needed the practical support or a hand-hold.

Supporting people like this must be a gentle process, whereby you first listen and understand them. If you can even get to the 'planning/action' stage of such a process in one conversation, it will come at the end. You might be able to feel this moment, but the outward signs will be a certain 'exhaustion' with crying/emoting/expressing - they need to fully complete their 'venting', 'shedding' or 'expressing'... and then they'll start taking deep breaths and saying words which serve as markers of the approaching shift in mindset, such as 'right', 'ok'. If you sense this caesura, and you feel that they would like a plan of action, only then do you suggest it to them. Sometimes they want someone in control, in which case you say something like 'right, this is what we're going to do'; other times you'll detect that they need to be in control of the resolution and just want to discuss ideas, or they might just want to run their idea by you, &c. &c. everyone's different. The point is that I cannot tell you a time when I've been in this situation where an emotional 'cleansing' phase wasn't first necessary before the person even wants to consider practical next steps. Vent - breathe - solve.

Now what I find difficult is when the person can't or won't go through this 'venting'; where they want to suppress, avoid, or run from any emotional expression of their problem. They'll tell you the issue, but might want to be distracted because it's too painful - this takes much more mental reserve on my part because I can't easily switch between emotional states. I can do it, but it's hard as fuck, and I'll often just be dwelling on their issue while trying my best to distract them. I think maybe Ne-types are better at this kind of fun/distracting support.
 
That sounds like a bit of an ordeal, @dragulagu, and a hurtful situation which isn't really anyone's fault. I hope you can feel better soon and resolve this.

Yeah, no worries, self reflection does most of the healing, already vented it out here and with friends and exercised + run everything through my mind again. It was no ones fault (although I do blame myself for not properly acknowledging her feelings) but rather an issue in communication between us. It happens, we are old enough to surpass it. We weren't too far yet after all. I'll focus a bit on my projects now, give it a rest and then go further again.
 
They're more comfortable with others' feelings I think.

INFJs are surprisingly private and not too comfortable discussing their own feelings.
Imho this depends on a few factors such as life experiences, traumas, and enneagram type. For instance, most 9 wings I have known have been very able to joke publicly but are very private about / slow to reveal actual emotions. Whereas a healthy four is all about exploring themselves and puking Fe every time they have a feel. 7's often are also expressive, whereas 6's are often most closed off from Fe due to their core essence - fear.
 
Following up as I figure people out...

My kids are definitely INTJ, INFJ, ENFJ, INFJ. Super cool to have such a compatible family.

My INTJ son's girlfriend is an INFJ.
My INFJ son's girlfriend is an INTJ.
My ENFJ daughter's best friend is an INFP.
My INFJ daughter's best friend is an ENFP.
My INTJ son's band (six years strong) is with another INTJ and an ENFP/J (straddles that line, though I see definite ENFP wildness in her).
My own bandmate (duo) is an ENFP. My two other close guy friends are INTJ and ENFJ.

There are patterns here!! I love it. (Oh, wait, INFJs adore patterns, don't we...) And of course, I love seeing the comfortable compatibility among these types, and I also love seeing the crazy creative sparks fly with the ENFPs in these relationships.

Super fun. Just started with a new therapist and haven't asked her yet if she's into MBTI typing, but I secretly hope so.