the power of god
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Skarekrow
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Well, if God created all…and has power over all…then He also created Hell (which is why I don’t believe in it) and has the power to stop the torture of any soul at any time.
If torture in Hell is eternal as many churches teach then Hell becomes unjust immediately because the punishment will eventually (no matter how bad) outweigh the sin.
Plus…okay….I own a pit in my land…with signs that say “warning watch out for the pit” so, some dumbass, wanders through my land, and because I am playing the role of God here…let’s say I have alarms and cameras in the deep pit full of sharp rocks.
So I know…some idiot, has wandered off the path through my land….and has ignored my signs or missed them and fell in….what is the right things for me to do?
Leave him to suffer and die? No. I help him out because that is right.
Even if someone said to me “Fuck you, I am going against you” and throws themselves bodily into the pit…I may roll my eyes…but the moment they hit the rocks and are suffering in pain with broken limbs, they will most likely change their mind. I would help them out even if they didn’t want me to…because once again…it is the RIGHT thing to do.
The concept of Hell is the melange of Tartarus, Sheol, Gehenna, and Hades ( all words that had different meanings combined into one they never did)….even the name “Hell” never ever ever was in the Bible.
It is a Norse niece of Odin who ruled over the underworld named, yep, you got it - Hel.
It’s a fairy tale to scare people strait.
TinyBubbles
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there is a blog by an ex prisoner called Ben Gunn, he wrote about how he killed a friend of his when he was 14 years old, and how in the aftermath there was nothing but silence. and that scared him. that total lack of consequence for his actions, after doing such a terrible thing..
he later turned himself in for murder, and got something like 10 years, but actually stayed for 30+
my point? people usually create their own consequences in the absence of a direct punishment by god, or any other authority figure. their own conscience and sense of meaning drives them to it. though it could manifest in a variety of ways...and what is wrong to one is not necessarily wrong to another, of course, so what registers as a sin would depend on the person's existing values.
he later turned himself in for murder, and got something like 10 years, but actually stayed for 30+
my point? people usually create their own consequences in the absence of a direct punishment by god, or any other authority figure. their own conscience and sense of meaning drives them to it. though it could manifest in a variety of ways...and what is wrong to one is not necessarily wrong to another, of course, so what registers as a sin would depend on the person's existing values.
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just me
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God gave everyone a way out from the punishment for sin, so why blame Him for being unjust?
Right and wrong, good versus bad; people that are trying to rid society of the mere thoughts of these are way out in left field without a glove, not even on a team, and do nothing more than try to destroy religion so their self-righteousness can be validated.
Why take something as small as the straw that broke the camel's back and give it credence?
Right and wrong, good versus bad; people that are trying to rid society of the mere thoughts of these are way out in left field without a glove, not even on a team, and do nothing more than try to destroy religion so their self-righteousness can be validated.
Why take something as small as the straw that broke the camel's back and give it credence?
just me
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One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. copied Romans 14:5
and verse 13
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
and verse 13
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc
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Even without any religion, the same could be said about morality if there were no consequences.
It is merely a mechanism of denial and self-righteousness to think morality comes from within, and without external influence.
It is merely a mechanism of denial and self-righteousness to think morality comes from within, and without external influence.
Oscillation
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I'm not sure I understand the question.
Is it God that throws people in hell?
Why is he doing that?
Sin is what's making you find yourself in "Hell", since sin is what's keeping you away from God - your very existence! As being an image of God, you cannot live without Him, as the reflections in the mirror cannot be without an reality. But sin has the nature of making that image blurry, making you lose your true identity. Losing your identity (as an existing being) is going to make you experience the so called "Hell" - just as individuals could experience it already in life.
That's one way of looking at it anyway. It may or may not be the way I look at things. Anyway I have difficulties seing God throwing us in Hell just because "we did sin". That's not my way of experience God.
Skarekrow
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So even though we have a SEVERELY incomplete and altered view of who or what God actually is.
In the old testament he’s like a child who got his lolly taken away.
Then in the new…it’s all love and roses and inner peace.
Then at the end is some twisted drug induced dream of the end of the world with some pretty bizarre imagery.
You’re supposed to follow this but not that…the bible tells us to stone witches or kill them at least, and yet when the Muslims in Saudi Arabia do it, it brutal and OMG Sharia Law is coming to Texas or some other southern state it isn’t.
I feel the Bible has very good aspects to it…but it has also been used in some nasty ways, people still think the abortion Doctors who have been shot, were shot by heroes.
They can’t be both.
The bible specifically says - Jesus was sent to “save the WHOLE world” not the portion that choose to follow a specific religious interpretation….the whole world (period)
Then I suppose He failed then right?
Churches don’t teach that…they teach that only through them (the churches who have the right interpretation) can you be saved…at least a good majority of them do.
Sorry…I got a different message from the Bible.
Oscillation
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Even Jesus were fed up with the religious leaders and teachers, and the most harsh teachings he brought in the bible are towards them - the very ones that eagered the most for Messiah! (but they missed the point)
Skarekrow
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For sure…but that isn’t what is being taught to the majority.
They also ignore the fact that Jesus spoke in parables…many of which He flat out says they won’t understand.
Jesus is not the only way to reach God…it is fine for some, but not all of us…and that’s okay…I’m not trying to disprove shit here.
Just stating some relatively overlooked facts.
Oscillation
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You should move to Sweden, hearing the teachings I have heard.
I have a preconception about the US being a little doctrinal, and as a preconception it may or may not be true. Truth is both the US and Sweden sure are doctrinal in some cases, I would guess. Anyway, I'm not convinced that the majority are of that belief, rather your experience of church happens to be of that kind? (I'm having difficulties explaining my toughts here, so I hope you understand my bad english. Otherwise, ask me and I will try to explain myself).
I have a preconception about the US being a little doctrinal, and as a preconception it may or may not be true. Truth is both the US and Sweden sure are doctrinal in some cases, I would guess. Anyway, I'm not convinced that the majority are of that belief, rather your experience of church happens to be of that kind? (I'm having difficulties explaining my toughts here, so I hope you understand my bad english. Otherwise, ask me and I will try to explain myself).
Skarekrow
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No problem…I understand you fine.
We have a whole group of states…mainly in the south that are very religious…(what we call the “south” now are the former states we had a civil war with).
They are what I call “weekend Christians” they go to church and listen on Sunday, and pat themselves on the back…then turn around and elect leaders that make drastic cuts to social programs that feed the poor and the disabled. These are the worst kind of people, and yet, they will staunchly defend the Bible even though they are not living the teachings of Jesus who was very liberal minded…he fed the poor without asking for anything…he helped those society threw away…the thieves, the whores, the lepers.
These so-called “leaders” of ours who proclaim to be “Christian” also forget the parable about the rich man and the camel through the eye of the needle.
You view of our country is probably accurate.
Oscillation
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Good!
I know...
Not intending to be rude or so, but I would guess swedes know more about the US than americans know about Sweden. Hehe. But I do greatly enjoy hearing it from an american perspective, being it the first time for me.
Yeah, I would guess so... but you can never be too certain. The problem with swedes is that they believe they know everything about the world, and perhaps particularly the USA. It's always good to get an other perspective at things before making yourself too certain.
We have those "weekend Christians" here in Sweden as well, yet maybe a little less of them since the country overall is secular. Most of the individuals don't even know what the church is all about, but filled with prejudices against church. Some well-founded, but most not being true at all. I'm speaking from my own experience.
I'm starting to get too Off Topic, aren't I? Suppose I should stop writing...
Skarekrow
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I know your some of your music!!!Good!
I know...
Not intending to be rude or so, but I would guess swedes know more about the US than americans know about Sweden. Hehe. But I do greatly enjoy hearing it from an american perspective, being it the first time for me.
Yeah, I would guess so... but you can never be too certain. The problem with swedes is that they believe they know everything about the world, and perhaps particularly the USA. It's always good to get an other perspective at things before making yourself too certain.
We have those "weekend Christians" here in Sweden as well, yet maybe a little less of them since the country overall is secular. Most of the individuals don't even know what the church is all about, but filled with prejudices against church. Some well-founded, but most not being true at all. I'm speaking from my own experience.
I'm starting to get too Off Topic, aren't I? Suppose I should stop writing...
I have listened to Kent for years, although, it seems they may have lost their touch lately.
My favorite is Moto Boy aka Oscar Humeblo…he was a child opera falsetto…somehow he kept this amazing range…I LOVE his voice.
[video=youtube_share;HKhWP3FclHQ]http://youtu.be/HKhWP3FclHQ[/video]
How could you not love that?!
Oscillation
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Nice! Never heard Oscar Humlebo before. Liked it!
Kent is somewhat a favorite, even though it might be more of my brothers kind of taste. By the way he lived next door to their studio once.
Skarekrow
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I like Kent’s older stuff…plus, iIm probably closer to your brother’s age I would imagine.
Here…this is so totally off topic now I may as well haha.
This is one he did with Titiyo.
[video=youtube_share;AG6V2P_yvBs]http://youtu.be/AG6V2P_yvBs[/video]
Oscillation
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I am unconcerned with the hell and heaven written of in all religious texts. I am sure I sin in regard to the new testimant. Just choose the religious text of the day I am sure I sin.
The only person I have to live with is me. If I can sleep at night I good and I can sleep at night.
So does it matter if I sin? Im sure it does to other people.
The only person I have to live with is me. If I can sleep at night I good and I can sleep at night.
So does it matter if I sin? Im sure it does to other people.
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I am unconcerned with the hell and heaven written of in all religious texts. I am sure I sin in regard to the new testimant. Just choose the religious text of the day I am sure I sin.
The only person I have to live with is me. If I can sleep at night I good and I can sleep at night.
So does it matter if I sin? Im sure it does to other people.
The only person I have to live with is me. If I can sleep at night I good and I can sleep at night.
So does it matter if I sin? Im sure it does to other people.
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Good!
I know...
Not intending to be rude or so, but I would guess swedes know more about the US than americans know about Sweden. Hehe. But I do greatly enjoy hearing it from an american perspective, being it the first time for me.
Yeah, I would guess so... but you can never be too certain. The problem with swedes is that they believe they know everything about the world, and perhaps particularly the USA. It's always good to get an other perspective at things before making yourself too certain.
We have those "weekend Christians" here in Sweden as well, yet maybe a little less of them since the country overall is secular. Most of the individuals don't even know what the church is all about, but filled with prejudices against church. Some well-founded, but most not being true at all. I'm speaking from my own experience.
I'm starting to get too Off Topic, aren't I? Suppose I should stop writing...
please continue, I don't care if it goes off topic. Im Not a thread nazi.