The "I" mentality of Trump

It seems to me that a lesson from history is that creating a government around a fundamental change to a prescribed and new constitution in one bound is almost always doomed. A society is just too complex for this to be successful - this has become an order of magnitude more complex and difficult in modern times. It seems to me to be a gross error to suggest that right wing / conservatives want only to preserve the past. There will be some who want that, but it's like wanting to go back to your childhood - I think it's much more that change needs to take place incrementally, a bit at a time. Precipitous change leads to all sorts of unanticipated problems, economic and political instability, even the chaos which destroys governments eventually and brings very great suffering to the people.

That's some real deep understanding of system thinking right there. Let's go set up a GoFund Me page so that John K from INFJ forum gets enough money to buy out Sam Altman from OpenAI and becomes our AI over-lord. I would trust you to navigate our society.
 
I didn't watch all the way through but
The main issue is that his conclusions are just wrong
The left is just as capable of violence and we've seen that play out today
Their frame of mind and justifications are just different
Violence in the name of progress/togtherness versus violence in the name of security/otherness
Both ends get bastardized until ultimately they are doing the same actions


Not that I agree with his conclusions, but I don’t think was denying that both sides aren’t capable of violence, but that the violence stats from the left is very inflated and not as factually accurate as we have been led to believe, and more actually comes from the right, which rarely gets discussed. Hence, they aren’t as similar as theorists claim, at least on a deeper level. I am not sure how much of that is true, but it is a different perspective.
 
Not that I agree with his conclusions, but I don’t think was denying that both sides aren’t capable of violence, but that the violence stats from the left is very inflated and not as factually accurate as we have been led to believe, and more actually comes from the right, which rarely gets discussed. Hence, they aren’t as similar as theorists claim, at least on a deeper level. I am not sure how much of that is true, but it is a different perspective.

In some sense I could see that as being true, probably.
But you have to also consider context and how humans have leaned and been lead throughout history.
It's a little more complex than one might see at face value.
 
I know it can feel like this is so, but if we look objectively over different parts of the world and over several thousand years, it looks very different to me. Pagan society in the BCE centuries was very often ruled at the whim of the overlords who did whatever they liked as long as they had military might behind them. The big civilisations such as the Roman Empire, and ancient China, were a huge step forward from this and as far as I can see both of them invented and implemented the first societies based on widespread rule of law. The major world religions that were founded in those days added codes of ethics that transcended the political structures of those days, and that was also incorporated into the formation of civil law - for example the principle of the relative primacy of the individual over any collective.

People are morally ambiguous, so of course these were not adopted in a clean sort of way. It's been a process of evolution, and a flowing and ebbing of tides over the following thousands of years. We can see the same sort of thing happening in the French Revolution I referred to earlier which started out by defining some of the great universal humanitarian principles of our times, then they blew it all. But then the American Revolution learnt from their experience and the American Constitution and State founded on principles derived from the French was much more successful and has resulted in a very stable society that has weathered storms that would have destroyed other states. And in many ways these were inheritors of the outcome of the English civil war and which changed forever the balance between monarch and Parliament.

Of course there will always be folks who try to use the institutions of state for their own gratification, in terms of power and wealth, and some of these will be evil people. But a well constituted democracy is better able to resist these that the other forms of government that we are familiar with. We only have to look at the quality of life in the major countries with governments that do not depend on the measured will of their people to see this. That doesn't mean that all's well in democracies - just that usually on the whole it's better than the alternatives. There's a good reason why half of the third world is trying hard to come and live in Europe and the USA. They don't seem to be queuing to get into Russia or China in the same way.

It seems to me that a lesson from history is that creating a government around a fundamental change to a prescribed and new constitution in one bound is almost always doomed. A society is just too complex for this to be successful - this has become an order of magnitude more complex and difficult in modern times. It seems to me to be a gross error to suggest that right wing / conservatives want only to preserve the past. There will be some who want that, but it's like wanting to go back to your childhood - I think it's much more that change needs to take place incrementally, a bit at a time. Precipitous change leads to all sorts of unanticipated problems, economic and political instability, even the chaos which destroys governments eventually and brings very great suffering to the people.

The EU is falling. The birth rates alone are the demise of the West. The US is going to fall next.

And I feel like you have conflated technological advancements with moral advancements. The morality in the West today is not better than it was in times past. In many ways, it is worse. This does not even discuss the issues that are very prevalent in our society, just underground and not discussed in the public eye. We have things like UFC that are public displays of grotesque violence, much like ancient Rome. We have Epstein Island, which is more or less the same thing that was happening in ancient Rome. We have the US being the biggest importer of human trafficking, even though slavery is officially outlawed, not to mention the porn epidemic, which is a worse thing than we have probably ever seen in any time in history. NVM, many of the LGBTQ+ issues that I will not talk about because they will offend many viewers here.

Things like life expectancy are due to technological advancements, not better morality.
 
And I feel like you have conflated technological advancements with moral advancements.
I don’t think I mentioned technical advancements. What I was proposing is that there has been progress over several thousand years in the evolution of ethics and the gradual incorporation of those ethics into the laws and the sense of natural justice embodied in our societies and the way they are governed.

There is a very big difference between the lot of ordinary people in, say, Gaul in the time of Augustus Caeser, and ordinary people in France today. It isn’t all down to technology - however people relate to Christianity today it has had a profound effect in the way we are governed in liberal societies. The way you yourself are safely able to look at our world through Christian spectacles is a manifestation of this.

I guess I’m concerned that saying our systems of government are intrinsically flawed is like saying Christianity is intrinsically false because some folks have misused it in order to oppress or take advantage of others.
 
I don’t think I mentioned technical advancements. What I was proposing is that there has been progress over several thousand years in the evolution of ethics and the gradual incorporation of those ethics into the laws and the sense of natural justice embodied in our societies and the way they are governed.

There is a very big difference between the lot of ordinary people in, say, Gaul in the time of Augustus Caeser, and ordinary people in France today. It isn’t all down to technology - however people relate to Christianity today it has had a profound effect in the way we are governed in liberal societies. The way you yourself are safely able to look at our world through Christian spectacles is a manifestation of this.

I guess I’m concerned that saying our systems of government are intrinsically flawed is like saying Christianity is intrinsically false because some folks have misused it in order to oppress or take advantage of others.

Christianity has had a positive effect on the world. Currently, the influence of Christianity is going down the drink, and the morals that go with it as well. As Obama pointed out, "We live in a post-Christian world." And in some sense, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. We could have a revival. That is what I am praying for. But the secular world is what I am talking about with all my critiques. Of course, people will deny that Christianity as such had any tangible effect on the world. They are wrong. But Christianity in the West has largely run its course, and the prevailing secularism has started to take over. So, unless we see a real act of God in the West (it's entirely possible this can happen), the West is completely doomed.
 
Christianity has had a positive effect on the world. Currently, the influence of Christianity is going down the drink, and the morals that go with it as well. As Obama pointed out, "We live in a post-Christian world." And in some sense, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. We could have a revival. That is what I am praying for. But the secular world is what I am talking about with all my critiques. Of course, people will deny that Christianity as such had any tangible effect on the world. They are wrong. But Christianity in the West has largely run its course, and the prevailing secularism has started to take over. So, unless we see a real act of God in the West (it's entirely possible this can happen), the West is completely doomed.
It really depends on whether we are looking from the river bank or in the water flow - both valid.
 
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