The H5n1 Controversy | INFJ Forum

The H5n1 Controversy

slant

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In mid February a small conference of scientists will meet in Geneva to discuss what to do about the H5N1 situation.

Two colleges, one in Michigan and one in the Netherlands, have announced (or perhaps the information was leaked given the circumstances) that airborne infections of the h5n1, a variant of h1n1, have been observed between ferrets in their experimentation. It took ten manual infections from ferret to ferret for it to become airborne. The information we know about this is limited because nations globally, including leading scientific minds, have urged that the release of the Scientific Journals based around this study be suppressed and not released. Some have argued if they are released, the information only be given to a small group of trusted individuals.

The conflict is very complex, predominantly there is a fear that this sort of thing will spark bioterrorism. Some argue that this virus could be harvested and potentially used by terrorists. It's really difficult to say whether the concerns are accurate or not because from all the research I've done to it, no one can agree for sure on the facts so it is difficult to determine which is right.

On one hand, some will argue that what we have observed of h1n1 and variant stages as a result of the Bird Flu that broke out a couple of years ago is that it has a kill rate of 50%, meaning that if 600 people go to the hospital with this strain, no matter where it was, 300 of them would die in the hospital. However some will argue that the reason this kill rate is inaccurate is that it does not factor in the possible number of infected people who never went to the hospital.

Then there is the conflict between the ferrets themselves. Some will argue that the ferrets, which after 10 infections from ferret to ferret the virus mutated to be airborne, demonstrate just how quickly and dangerous that this could be. These scientists explain the reason ferrets are used for experimentation is because they behave in similar ways to human more so than traditional lab rats when it comes to influenza- ferrets cough, sneeze and such forth just like humans do. Others will argue that ferrets are not an accurate model for how this will transfer with humans because of important fundamental differences in biology between humans and ferrets.

Even the decision of not publishing the findings of these studies is multifaceted. There are some scientists who argue that these studies cannot be release because of the risk of people duplicating the experiments, including terrorists who might replicate it to use it as a bioweapon. The other side of this issue will argue that not to publish the findings is a crime to the Scientific Community, in turn partially because of the inability for it to be reproduced to prove it's merit. It has also been argued that with the current information that has been leaked, an individual could reproduce the virus without the study being released for the only thing missing is the genetic sequence to do so, which could be guessed.

I personally can't say I have an opinion on this because I am not a scientist and I just don't think I have enough information- and even if I did have enough information, I'm not sure if I'd have the capacity to see all areas of this issue and what could potentially erupt from it. But I find this fascinating.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue?
 
Mass hysteria is something I don't give in to easily. Think of the timing of these flu pandemics, especially in the US. The economic depression was spreading quickly ... people out of jobs and out of health insurance. I honestly think the antagonist in these instances were pharmaceutical companies only b/c they were losing money.
 
Mass hysteria is something I don't give in to easily. Think of the timing of these flu pandemics, especially in the US. The economic depression was spreading quickly ... people out of jobs and out of health insurance. I honestly think the antagonist in these instances were pharmaceutical companies only b/c they were losing money.

So what you are saying is that you believe that the concern over releasing the paperwork of these studies is hysteria and that they should be released to the public in the medical and Science journals?
 
I feel like the world needs a good epidemic to
control human overpopulation.


Poor ferrets though ):
 
I feel like the world needs a good epidemic to
control human overpopulation.


Poor ferrets though ):

So then you are in support of releasing the papers?
 
I think that if terrorists want to engage in that sort of behaviour- releasing viruses and the like- that they'll find their own way of doing so and don't necessarily need these papers released to them. They could be doing studies all their own for all we know. If they're going to do it, they're going to do it whether or not these scientists post their findings in medical journals or not.

The flu kind of sucks from what I've heard from other people. I've never experienced a flu before and I've never been vaccinated for it. I've seen the whole SARS, Swine Flu, Avian Flu, etc through and have never known anyone to get them and have never experienced them myself. But I do see how insane people get when they start fearing that they're going to catch something and die from it. Total hysteria. I tend to ignore it.

I guess I can see why some would think it's a problem to release all this information but viruses are able to mutate all on their own anyway whether or not it occurs in a lab or elsewhere. Who knows, maybe the cold virus will transform and we'll all die.
 
So what you are saying is that you believe that the concern over releasing the paperwork of these studies is hysteria and that they should be released to the public in the medical and Science journals?

I honestly don't care if the message is delivered or not. I can't control how the population perceives this information.
 
O boy, I love it when people say they are in favor of an epidemic wiping out a large portion of the population.
Hey, why not start with yourself? Or should everyone else just die to make room for you?


Other than that... no opinion.
 
I have an issue with humans poking their noses around places it was never meant to be in the first place. Avian Flu originated in avian species. Had they not been mass-produced for slaughter, cross-species contamination would not have occurred to begin with. In that sense, and for those reasons, I'm all in favor of it spreading across the human race and seeing what happens. Call is species-targeted karma if you will.
 
O boy, I love it when people say they are in favor of an epidemic wiping out a large portion of the population.
Hey, why not start with yourself? Or should everyone else just die to make room for you?


Other than that... no opinion.

Where have I implied that I should like to be excluded?


And @slant I will address you later. Releasing information
about diseases to the population around the world seems
pretty okay to me. If someone uses that for bad well alright.
Just because someone might do something bad doesn't
mean we should have some sick kind of lock down on everything
that could be used to harm. If you're that worried about it
start building your bomb shelter.
 
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I think that if terrorists want to engage in that sort of behaviour- releasing viruses and the like- that they'll find their own way of doing so and don't necessarily need these papers released to them. They could be doing studies all their own for all we know. If they're going to do it, they're going to do it whether or not these scientists post their findings in medical journals or not.

The flu kind of sucks from what I've heard from other people. I've never experienced a flu before and I've never been vaccinated for it. I've seen the whole SARS, Swine Flu, Avian Flu, etc through and have never known anyone to get them and have never experienced them myself. But I do see how insane people get when they start fearing that they're going to catch something and die from it. Total hysteria. I tend to ignore it.

I guess I can see why some would think it's a problem to release all this information but viruses are able to mutate all on their own anyway whether or not it occurs in a lab or elsewhere. Who knows, maybe the cold virus will transform and we'll all die.


Sandra I'm glad you're intelligent. Sincerely.
 
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1. Pandemics are bad. It is grossly disrespectful to those who have and will suffer and die because of them, and their bereaved loved ones, to suggest otherwise.

2. Viruses must be understood at a fundamental level in order to eliminate their ongoing threat to humanity.

3. Letting nature take its course is irresponsible.

4.Dangerous techniques can and must be kept out of the public domain for as long a possible.
 
1. Pandemics are bad. It is grossly disrespectful to those who have and will suffer and die because of them, and their bereaved loved ones, to suggest otherwise.

2. Viruses must be understood at a fundamental level in order to eliminate their ongoing threat to humanity.

3. Letting nature take its course is irresponsible.

4.Dangerous techniques can and must be kept out of the public domain for as long a possible.

Ahem, don't forget that we are nature. We come from nature and everything we do relies on nature. Disconnect yourself from nature and you have chaos on your hands, like we already see on a global scale - factory farming, deforestation, ice cap melting, extinctions, etc.

Nature will always win in the long run. We need a wake-up call every once in a while to remind those of us who have a blatant disregard for nature by doing things like building civilizations along fault lines, settling near active volcanoes or building cities below sea level.
 
We need a wake-up call .

One man's wake up call is another man's genocide (or do you not know how 90% of the Native populations of North and South America perished from European transmitted Pandemics in the fourteen hundreds).

Just because shit happens doesn't mean we shouldn't try do something about it

Fatalism is crap.
 
One man's wake up call is another man's genocide (or do you not know how 90% of the Native populations of North and South America perished from European transmitted Pandemics in the fourteen hundreds).

Just because shit happens doesn't mean we shouldn't try do something about it

Fatalism is crap.

Call it whatever you want, but nature will win. If you think otherwise, all it takes is a chunk of space rock to end this planet in a fraction of a second.
 
You are absolutely right, Lerxst!

But you are forgetting that it is in our nature to figure things out (e.g., now we know exactly where those fault lines are and how to predict earthquakes --- erm, somewhat.... sort of... -- which unfortunately we didn't when those cities were built) and it is in our nature to use our brains to help each other survive, and survive ourselves (e.g., humans were able to effectively eradicate smallpox, which killed so many people.)

I've never seen another species running a "Save The Humans" campaign, so while I agree we are a part of nature and should -- must! -- respect it, that alone is no excuse for sitting back and doing nothing. Humans have never done that and we never will. It is not in our nature.
 
.................it is in our nature to use our brains to help each other survive, and survive ourselves................

Hence the moral imperative to...
A. ...Do so
B. ...Not pretend that since all is void, accepting millions of deaths as
"targeted karma".
insults the moral precepts you cavalierly invoke.
 
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