The Bitcoin Standard

[Enso]

We probably need a McKenna appreciation section, but back on the original topic. There is one aspect I probably do kind of agree with you on @philostam. The one thing that is insane about bitcoin is the power it uses, and the power the system holds as pure energy from the miners crunching numbers. According to the Law of conservation of energy, energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be transferred or changed from one form to another, I guess this also ties into @Sometimes Yeah conspiracy theories. There's a intense amount of pure energy going into the bitcoin network from the universe, that is very interesting from both a "value" standpoint of people claiming that btc has value like gold, and also just as an accumulation of energy on planet earth.

 

[philostam]

Crypto is just a boring topic. Basically gamblers pretending they're not gambling by calling bets "investments".

Frankly, the conspiracy theories about it are more interesting. My favourite is that the Bitcoin inventor, Satoshi Nakamoto is actually an artificial intelligence, using people's greed to supply it with disgraceful amounts of computing power and electricity.

Even if it was just gambling, which is not, it would be stupid not to be a part of it.

It's an asymmetrical bet. You can only lose 100%, but gain 10.000s%. There is nothing like it in the real world.

 

[Matty]

Even if it was just gambling, which is not, it would be stupid not to be a part of it.

It's an asymmetrical bet. You can only lose 100%, but gain 10.000s%. There is nothing like it in the real world.

That would be true, if greed is your principal motivator.

I own my home, I have an investment property (out of prudence regarding retirement decades down the track), I enjoy working, and I enjoy holidaying.

There's no gap to fill with a lot of money; I don't like shopping, I don't like hotels, and I dislike tourism. My biggest expense is an airline ticket once in a blue moon, followed by vehicle expenses.

Besides the disgust I have towards gambling, I have an aversion to materialistic lifestyles. In no way does the prospect of fiddling around on computers for untold hours, to make a bunch of monopoly money hold any appeal whatsoever.

 

[philostam]

That would be true, if greed is your principal motivator.

I own my home, I have an investment property (out of prudence regarding retirement decades down the track), I enjoy working, and I enjoy holidaying.

There's no gap to fill with a lot of money; I don't like shopping, I don't like hotels, and I dislike tourism. My biggest expense is an airline ticket once in a blue moon, followed by vehicle expenses.

Besides the disgust I have towards gambling, I have an aversion to materialistic lifestyles. In no way does the prospect of fiddling around on computers for untold hours, to make a bunch of monopoly money hold any appeal whatsoever.

That's fair and good for you. Many people share your opinion. There's no need to go into crypto if you're already happy with your life and have the conditions you want.

That's why I wrote in the beginning that crypto is tilted more towards millennials and younger. These are generations that are getting fucked with high student debt, rising home prices/rent, unstable careers, financial crisis etc.

It's not even greed. It's just common sense.

 

[Enso]

I guess my viewpoint differs from yours in exactly how you would expect it to (considering our slight differences in MBTI). I think the weakest link is humans. You're looking at it from a technological standpoint with optimism, which your more than welcome to. I look at it as just another social system to be corrupted. I'm not a total pessimist though, it's just when it comes to anything involving raw $$$$$$, people usually find a way to corrupt it one way or another.

From a social standpoint, things like the antiwork movement going on at the moment interest me more, because from a human standpoint, a large group of people are telling their employers to go fuck themselves for $8/hr. I feel this is an example where a social movement is actually influencing society, bitcoin not so much. - just one example though.

 

[philostam]

I guess my viewpoint differs from yours in exactly how you would expect it to (considering our slight differences in MBTI). I think the weakest link is humans. You're looking at it from a technological standpoint with optimism, which your more than welcome to. I look at it as just another social system to be corrupted. I'm not a total pessimist though, it's just when it comes to anything involving raw $$$$$$, people usually find a way to corrupt it one way or another.

From a social standpoint, things like the antiwork movement going on at the moment interest me more, because from a human standpoint, a large group of people are telling their employers to go fuck themselves for $8/hr. I feel this is an example where a social movement is actually influencing society, bitcoin not so much. - just one example though.

Yeah, all valid points. I am interested in that too.

Something is definitely changing, maybe the age of low payed bullshit jobs will come to the end soon.

 

[philostam]

This meme is really instrumental in understanding the future. The past belonged to well dressed corporate climbers that knew how to play the game. The present and futures belongs to quirky nerds that are leveraging the web.

Some would regret this. There will obviously always be space for a more old-school person climbing the ranks (like @Pin), but the new world opens up possibilities to different temperaments as well.

 

[philostam]

And yes, I am optimistic about the future. Pessimism is for academics, optimism is for entrepreneurs.

Academics are measured by engagement...Entrepreneurs get results from the real world.

Academics and scientists in 1900 were all saying humans will never fly. Entrepreneurs/engineers/tinkerers made it possible.

 

[philostam]

The older I get, the less I trust governments and Science (with a capital S). I think the way Covid is being handled by politicians and Scientists is a disaster.

These people are completely unaware of second order consequences of their actions. But that is a problem with politicians and government jobs in general. These people have no skin in the game, their paychecks will come no matter what. Real people in the real economy, on the other hand, have skin in the game and have to constantly weigh up their options, consider opportunity cost, consider 2nd order consequences of their actions etc.

 

[philostam]

A simple example of linear thinking that government officials like to use.

1. There is a lot of traffic jams on the way to the city
2. "Let's widen the highway by 50% and we will ease up the traffic by 50%".
3. Now road is 50% wider, but also more individuals decide to drive to the city whereas before they perhaps used public transport or stayed at home (second order consequence)
4. Traffic jams don't reduce by 50%. Maybe they don't reduce at all.

That's like engineers using only simple arithmetic to build complex systems. You will need calculus/advanced math to build anything complex.

 

[Enso]

Totally agree with all your posts. It's awesome how we all get side-tracked from the main topic. We went from bitcoin to Terrence McKenna to billionaires to politics. I'm all for innovation too. Academics is broken in my country, no one has the ability to critically think anymore. They told me they were forcing new COVID restrictions on campus like an authoritarian regime using apps and bullshit. I told them they have lost their minds and don't know what the fuck critical thinking is.

 

[Ren]

@philostam

Hi Phil. Which post did you want me to react to, sneaky boy

 

[Jexocuha]

View attachment 86104

This meme is really instrumental in understanding the future. The past belonged to well dressed corporate climbers that knew how to play the game. The present and futures belongs to quirky nerds that are leveraging the web.

Some would regret this. There will obviously always be space for a more old-school person climbing the ranks (like @Pin), but the new world opens up possibilities to different temperaments as well.

Lol. yeah...

 

[philostam]

Totally agree with all your posts. It's awesome how we all get side-tracked from the main topic. We went from bitcoin to Terrence McKenna to billionaires to politics. I'm all for innovation too. Academics is broken in my country, no one has the ability to critically think anymore. They told me they were forcing new COVID restrictions on campus like an authoritarian regime using apps and bullshit. I told them they have lost their minds and don't know what the fuck critical thinking is.

Bitcoin takes you down all kind of rabbit holes. If you dive deeply into Bitcoin, you'll learn about economics, history, engineering, computer science, history of science...It's hard not to get side-tracked for a while, and then emerging back wiser and stronger.

My thinking changed completely on many levels due to Bitcoin. I feel more empowered than ever.

Back to academia...academics still don't understand Bitcoin, they don't even try to understand it or take it seriously, even though it's a trillion dollar asset class. It's just a tulip mania, although it already last for 12 years. No intellectually honest person would ignore Bitcoin. But unfortunately academics still cling to their outdated models which will take another 5-10 years to update. And then I am sure they will write a good textbook about how obvious Bitcoin was from the very beginning.

And idiots like Paul Krugman still don't see a need for Bitcoin, when currencies of Argentina, Turkey etc are collapsing at 40% a year. He doesn't see a need for it, because he gets steady paychecks no matter how many things he gets wrong, and lives in a country with the most stable currency (although still debasing at huge rate).

The legacy finance world is so outdated it's hard to believe. Just think about it, the "security" for your Visa/Mastercard is a 3 digit number...written at the back of the card itself.

Bitcoin is inevitable.

 

[philostam]

"You get payed for being right first, and to be first, you cannot wait for consensus".

 

[Ren]

I'm one of those academics who are clueless about Bitcoin, but it's been very interesting to dive into this thread and learn more about it.

Any good academic textbooks on the topic? I'm joking.

 

[philostam]

I'm one of those academics who are clueless about Bitcoin, but it's been very interesting to dive into this thread and learn more about it.

Any good academic textbooks on the topic? I'm joking.

Watch anything from Michael Saylor, that man is...wow. INTJ imo. He is a true visionary for the space, he develops some great metaphors. He is super versed in technology, engineering (is an MIT engineer), but also has a philosophical bent to him.

Jordan Peterson also has some interesting podcasts on the topic, since you are already familiar with him.

Just some random video from Saylor...Everything you chose from him is great.

 

[philostam]

“If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible, he is almost certainly right; but if he says that it is impossible, he is very probably wrong.” - Arthur C. Clarke

 

[philostam]

My boss has 2 apartments in the center of the city. Together probably worth 800k euro. In one she lives, the other one she rents out and earns around 1000 euro a month.

That's 12k a year (let's ignore taxes etc.) on 800k of net worth. That's 1.5% a year. You can earn this in one day in crypto. I am gonna probably exceed her net worth by 2024 and I started with virtually nothing, while she inherited both apartments.

The rational thing would be to borrow against your real estate and invest into superior property, which is Bitcoin.

Not financial advice.

 

[Enso]

My boss has 2 apartments in the center of the city. Together probably worth 800k euro. In one she lives, the other one she rents out and earns around 1000 euro a month.

That's 12k a year (let's ignore taxes etc.) on 800k of net worth. That's 1.5% a year. You can earn this in one day in crypto. I am gonna probably exceed her net worth by 2024 and I started with virtually nothing, while she inherited both apartments.

The rational thing would be to borrow against your real estate and invest into superior property, which is Bitcoin.

Not financial advice.

The bitcoin markets are are pretty manipulated imo. I am hopeful that it will create a better world (there are documentaries showing this is already occurring) but I don't think it will be useful as an income.