Sorting INFJ from INTJ | INFJ Forum

Sorting INFJ from INTJ

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by Flamethrower, May 18, 2009.

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  1. Flamethrower

    Flamethrower Regular Poster

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    Just wondering how you guys perceive INTJs and how you would know when you meet someone that they were INTJ and not INFJ.
     
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  2. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    INTJs are probably more confident in public and much more cynical of the people in their surroundings. I hesitate to say arrogant because I realize that's become somewhat of a stereotype.. but they don't make the best first impressions usually, because they don't care what you think about them.. Wheras infjs are a bit more accomodating, yet still cool and reserved. Maybe?
     
  3. WickedPod

    WickedPod Community Member

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    After reading about INTJs, I realize that I seem to lean more towards that direction when I'm wearing my "professional hat" - except I'm still always aware of the feelings of others.

    It seems that people seem to take INTJs and INFJs both as cold people off their first impression, so it's kinda' hard to say. While TJs may be forming their thoughts so they make sense to others, FJs are usually forming their thoughts into something that won't hurt anyone's feelings. I just figure TJs will be more outgoing and exude confidence, while us FJs generally are a bit more unsure of ourselves.
     
  4. slant

    slant Ruboobie

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    INTJ seem more logical than INFJ.
     
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  5. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    INTJs don't validate feelings unless they can make logical sense of them. They seem to dismiss emotions of themselves and others more when the emotions aren't practical.

    I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "I'm not having this argument/ conversation because it's not based on anything reasonable." I've literally heard, "When there's something real to argue/ discuss, then I'll discuss it."
     
    #5 acd, May 18, 2009
    Last edited: May 18, 2009
  6. slant

    slant Ruboobie

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    Well how do you discuss feelings, anyway? They don't make much sense. Why do people bring up feelings in the first place unless they are trying to explain a particular problem that has a very obvious solution?

    I'd say that the majority of time when people won't discuss something they say is illogical, it is because it is illogical.
     
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  7. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    Right, slant. That's exactly the typical intj response I get.
    For example, if they do something that offends you or irritates you or whathave you, they have a hard time understanding how what they did affected you if you explain to them how it made you feel. Seems they have a problem with subjectivity and limited empathetic skills. But doesn't mean that applies to all of them, just those I've encountered. Still, I love them dearly and they're probably the most interesting mbti type to me. In a way, I'm magnatized to them more than any other type in the theory.
     
  8. OP
    Flamethrower

    Flamethrower Regular Poster

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    Hmm maybe cool and reserved is a common thing. I have an INFJ friend that I thought was INTJ initially because we both seemed to be so good at going off into daydream mode and being aloof in a similar way. But he's a business owner so I always saw him organizing things for the business and assumed he was INTJ. That was until recently when a shareholder in his business upset him and now he seems to be making all his business decisions based on his emotions and on how the other person hurt his feelings and he's trying to pay them back for violating the relationship even though his business is in jeopardy. That really surprises me because as an INTJ I would just look for the quickest and most logically efficient way to sort out any business problem to preserve the integrity of the business even if some people got offended in the process. That is probably where the arrogant stereotype for us comes from.

    Actually we INTJs are not all that sure of ourselves either! We just don't want anyone to see that we have any insecurities in case we don't look competent!
     
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  9. gloomy-optimist

    gloomy-optimist Used to live here

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    Actually, it's difficult to explain how INFJs and INTJs differ...I can tell the difference in real life, but I can't really explain how :/
    INFJs usually become warmer in social situations quicker (and quicker for an INxJ type could mean the difference between three months and four). They tend to focus on the relationship aspects, the social parts of it.
    An INTJ will be social, but in a different way...they will have more of a cynical humor, a little less caring about how people "feel" about it. INFJs can have dark humor, but INTJs will show this part of themselves quicker than the INFJ will.
     
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  10. WickedPod

    WickedPod Community Member

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    Exactly. I think y'all can pull off false confidence better. They only time I've ever been seen as confident is when I actually was. :eek:)
     
  11. slant

    slant Ruboobie

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    The reason for that, I would assume, isn't because they don't understand how they affected you; it's that they don't understand how to solve the problem. I may not be an INTJ but my mode of thinking when someone brings up a problem is: how do I solve this? When someone brings up feelings as a problem I feel inclined to state: They are your feelings, control them. I know that it may sound harsh, but how am I supposed to fix someone else's feelings when I have no control over them? The best I can do is to ask what actions of my has caused those feelings and to avoid them, or to state that they need to figure out a way to make themselves feel differently when these actions occur because I am not responsible for their emotional wellbeing. Which response I use depends on the situation.
     
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  12. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    Haha, you know. You're right. They are more interested in solving the problem than understanding how a person was affected. Whereas I'm the other way around-- understand the effect of the action, then solve it...

    In a mild argument with my intj for example, he got frustrated and said if you make a list of what you want from me, I'll do it. Just tell me exactly what it is you want..(and not sarcastically.)

    Of course I'm not going to make a demand list on him, but I was baffled that instead of wanting to understand how I felt, he was more concerned with just fixing the problem. But your post helped to clarify that he's not callous, just approaches things differently than a feeling type would.
     
  13. OP
    Flamethrower

    Flamethrower Regular Poster

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    Bingo! This is true. I have terrible, explosive arguments with an ISFJ friend of mine sometimes because she starts going off on what appears to me to be some irrational emotional tangent that I can't make any sense of and then I try to end the argument as quickly as possible by being dominating because I can't see how we are going to be able to resolve anything while she is "hysterical". I have worked out that this is because she focuses on how my comments make her feel whereas I am focusing on trying to look impartially for reasonable, logical things to construct a solution from because I want peace and orderliness more than harmony. So we go around in a vicious cycle where me not acknowledging how she feels makes her feel misunderstood and then she reiterates her point to try to get me to see her side which just makes her more unintelligible to me and the less she makes sense to me the more I want to find that logical solution so I just become more blunt and so on and so on.... Most arguments end with me hanging up the phone in her ear (it is always on the phone for some reason). I've kind of learnt now to either avoid things that spark arguments in the first place or consider her feelings more when we are arguing.

    Also we INTJs feel odd about airing our emotions in public and hate talking about how we feel so this fuels this sort of thing even more because we don't like feeling vulnerable. Is that true for INFJs too or are you guys more comfortable with expressing how you feel about things to others? I find that F types can misunderstand my reluctance to talk about how I feel as some sort of hurtful thing to them.

    That is 'cause we have this special charisma.......

    No I'm kidding. :tongue1:
     
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    #13 Flamethrower, May 18, 2009
    Last edited: May 18, 2009
  14. slant

    slant Ruboobie

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    Hmm...yes. I find that INFJ's typically are very emotionally and need to express how they feel about a situation before being able to come to a conclusion. I guess what you are proposing is that this is an F trait, which I suppose it may be. I've found that a lot of people asking me questions about how I 'feel' about a situation are frustrated when I don't respond the way they expect me to; that's just not at the top of my priorities at the moment. In fact I'm often even felt void of having any feelings at all in certain situations.

    I think that most F types, espcially INFJ, have this deep desire to connect with someone else socially; F seems to function as a trait that makes a person more prone to relating experiences. T seems more prone to relating ideas. So the communication gap between T and F seems to be that one side wants to discuss their personal life happenings with a emphasis on 'personal', whereas the other side prefers to discuss things that are less centered around 1st hand encounters, perhaps detached from the actual person, and more focused on ideas.
     
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  15. Angelbabe2000

    Angelbabe2000 Regular Poster

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    INTJ's & INFJ's & love

    I have a friend who is INTJ, who I met on another forum. He approached me first in a PM saying how much he liked my post.
    I was very surprised. He is fierce and unapologetic and very, very smart! Didnt have a clue he was even aware of me.

    He kept up the conversation and later told me [when I asked what he saw in me] that he "liked" me. He wanted to "inter-act" with me.

    I am liking him very much, but i am unsure as how to proceed.
    I have read much on INTJ, and I feel there is a big similarity between us.
    I like that he is truthful and gives me NO drama.
    But my emotions seem to "bounce off" him.
    I can make him laugh. He pm's me several times a day.
    He's kind and patient with me.
    He's offered the Eagles song "One of These Nights" to me and I think of it as our song.
    I have NO idea where this whole non-relationship is going.
    He wont even tell me what color his eyes are!!

    All advice welcome.
    Thank you.
     
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  16. OP
    Flamethrower

    Flamethrower Regular Poster

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    Ah yes this is what I meant. I think I frustrate F types as well. I also have that void thing as well where sometimes something big will happen that I think I should have a strong emotional reaction too and nothing at all happens. Like family members dying even. I started wondering if I was strange until I read that INTJs often say something similar. Does this happen to any INFJs though?

    The few INFJs that I have met definitely seem better at connecting socially and understanding things like how people relate to each other as a group. And certainly they are better at getting around a room of people and making sure they interact with people than say I would be. I usually single out the people in a crowd I am likely to make a long term friendship with and spend more time with them than try to make sure I got to let others know I was thinking of them. If that makes sense. In an exaggerated way my ENFJ friend does that. I went to a party with her recently and I didn't see her all night because she wanted to make sure she had spoken to everybody in the room before the party was over, even if only for a few seconds. The thought of anyone being left out irked her I guess whereas I would feel like my interactions with people were vacuous if I didn't spend any decent length of time talking to them in depth. I would rather not meet someone and say nothing than meet them for a few seconds and only have time for some shallow conversation. So I think maybe INTJs don't get sometimes that people are OK with being acknowledged or acquaintances.

    Hmm, well my take on that as INTJ would be:

    IN_Js do have lots in common in terms of intuitive imagination and vision and are both rare. I enjoy visiting this forum because I find INFJs are fascinating. But also when I first joined the INTJ forum I felt a similar way about them (I think because I don't meet many in real life). And the thing I've noticed about INTJs as a group on that forum that I like is some of the stuff you've alluded to. Like they are generally very calm and level headed and if you want to discuss something serious or a problem they are very patient and they will take you seriously and listen carefully. And they always want to help if they think they can but won't offer any help they think is not genuinely going to make a difference. So they are very honest. They care about other people in a
     
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  17. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    I'm pretty sure my father is INTJ. The distinguishing thing between INFJ and INTJ is, of course, the absence of F in INTJ (yes, the way I phrased that was biased). My father and I operate fairly similarly, but at the same time we are very different on some things. He pretty much ignores his emotions and any question pretaining to meaning or purpose or anything philosophical or religious really. I'm the opposite in that regard. He is also a jerk a lot of times. Its annoying.
     
  18. Angelbabe2000

    Angelbabe2000 Regular Poster

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    Thanx Flamethrower

    Your insights are like nuggets of gold!
    I am very grateful.[​IMG]
    For me this is like getting it from the horses mouth.

    Now I am wondering if INTJ's are a bit like Spock, calm & rational on the outside, a cauldron of emo on the inside.

    *imagining it*
    [​IMG]
    Nah!
     
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  19. slant

    slant Ruboobie

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    I type spock as an ISTJ.
     
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  20. OP
    Flamethrower

    Flamethrower Regular Poster

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    Neigh! :deadhorse:

    Sorry! Couldn't resist.

    You're welcome. I hope it proves to be useful. You can grill me for INTJ stuff any time BTW. :)

    Let us know how you get on with Mr INTJ too.
     
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