Society Today versus 5 years ago

[CosmicINFJ]

I had a discussion about this today with a friend and thought I would post some questions here. Do you think that Society is Kinder and Gentler now or Harsher than it was 5 years ago? Why do you think this? Or is it a feeling that you have? Please feel free to elaborate. Thank you.

 

[James]

I had a discussion about this today with a friend and thought I would post some questions here. Do you think that Society is Kinder and Gentler now or Harsher than it was 5 years ago? Why do you think this? Or is it a feeling that you have? Please feel free to elaborate. Thank you.

Here in the UK ? Sadly it is definitely harsher and worse. It is the accumulation of "austerity" cuts to public services, and cuts in support to the sick and unemployed. Also i think a very cynical attempt to stigmatize those people as undeserving and lazy etc. Stagnant wage growth and an equally nasty ploy of blaming all the problems the UK has, on immigration.

A toxic brew of issues, which is making the country a worse place to live in for everyone, rich or poor.

 

[CosmicINFJ]

Here in the UK ? Sadly it is definitely harsher and worse. It is the accumulation of "austerity" cuts to public services, and cuts in support to the sick and unemployed. Also i think a very cynical attempt to stigmatize those people as undeserving and lazy etc. Stagnant wage growth and an equally nasty ploy of blaming all the problems the UK has, on immigration.

A toxic brew of issues, which is making the country a worse place to live in for everyone, rich or poor.

Thanks @James for the context with your answer

 

[Gaze]

Harsher and less forgiving, more exploitive, and divisive. Mostly because of fierce competition and social darwinism, and similar to what @James said, less social protections or safety nets. The push is towards working harder and faster with fewer gains and less income to show for it. Productivity is more important than humanity. A person's use value is more important their individual wants or needs. Less social accountability or social support, and fewer or no expectations of community support. More "independence" and isolationism or segregation leads to elitism and separatism. More focus on conflict rather than resolution, and more emphasis on rights rather than protecting what we do have. Less patience and more demand (in attitude and commerce) but fewer resources to spread around without the cash to fund it. Less "need" for others because everyone is supposed to be Independent (a very misunderstood and misused word) and more focus on self sufficiency leading to "I take care of me" and "you take care of you", and never the twain should have to meet. Less safety and loss of privacy. Technological determinism and social manipulation valuing personal needs above social or societal benefits. Less certainty and more dependency. Less stability and fewer options for social mobility. Social manipulation focused on means to end, rather than the health of people in all areas being an end in itself. Oh, and want or need for social support diminishes the value of affection and puts more emphasis on satisfying physical desires. In other words, you the person is not as important as what you can give me or what I can get from you. Using each other is no longer something to be ashamed of, it's a SOP. Yeah. Not sure I covered it all, but I think I came close.

 

[James]

@Gale @CosmicINFJ

I hope I haven't given a "there's no hope" type post above, I just wanted to be honest about how things are. In spite of that, I have a great deal of hope that things will change and improve. I think it's sometimes the nature of things, that stuff has to go wrong, before it can change and get better again. On a personal note, I am determined to do all I can to push back, and I am not alone in that. By any means.

I am very lucky. I live in a country where I can get free medical attention, there is a stable govt (though I don't support this current govt at all) and it is mostly a safe and good place to live. In the last 5 years, things have gotten worse, but I want my focus to be on what can be done to turn that around, over the next 5 years, and more. And not just in my country. Everywhere.

Life can be harsh and cruel and difficult to take, but it can also be beautiful at times.

 

[Gaze]

@Gale @CosmicINFJ

I hope I haven't given a "there's no hope" type post above, I just wanted to be honest about how things are. In spite of that, I have a great deal of hope that things will change and improve. I think it's sometimes the nature of things, that stuff has to go wrong, before it can change and get better again. On a personal note, I am determined to do all I can to push back, and I am not alone in that. By any means.

I am very lucky. I live in a country where I can get free medical attention, there is a stable govt (though I don't support this current govt at all) and it is mostly a safe and good place to live. In the last 5 years, things have gotten worse, but I want my focus to be on what can be done to turn that around, over the next 5 years, and more. And not just in my country. Everywhere.

Life can be harsh and cruel and difficult to take, but it can also be beautiful at times.

I think I went a tad bit too negative. Agree. Not good to have so negative a picture that we don't look at the good.

 

[James]

I think I went a tad bit too negative. Agree. Not good to have so negative a picture that we don't look at the good.

I think you just gave your honest opinion. Things never improve if we don't do that. I see in the art and graphics you post, a lot of expression and beauty. It's those things that uplift and inspire people to work and make life better. That's the power of art.

I always enjoy seeing them.

 

[CosmicINFJ]

Harsher and less forgiving, more exploitive, and divisive. Mostly because of fierce competition and social darwinism, and similar to what @James said, less social protections or safety nets. The push is towards working harder and faster with fewer gains and less income to show for it. Productivity is more important than humanity. A person's use value is more important their individual wants or needs. Less social accountability or social support, and fewer or no expectations of community support. More "independence" and isolationism or segregation leads to elitism and separatism. More focus on conflict rather than resolution, and more emphasis on rights rather than protecting what we do have. Less patience and more demand (in attitude and commerce) but fewer resources to spread around without the cash to fund it. Less "need" for others because everyone is supposed to be Independent (a very misunderstood and misused word) and more focus on self sufficiency leading to "I take care of me" and "you take care of you", and never the twain should have to meet. Less safety and loss of privacy. Technological determinism and social manipulation valuing personal needs above social or societal benefits. Less certainty and more dependency. Less stability and fewer options for social mobility. Social manipulation focused on means to end, rather than the health of people in all areas being an end in itself. Oh, and want or need for social support diminishes the value of affection and puts more emphasis on satisfying physical desires. In other words, you the person is not as important as what you can give me or what I can get from you. Using each other is no longer something to be ashamed of, it's a SOP. Yeah. Not sure I covered it all, but I think I came close.

As harsh as your description sounds, I appreciate that you put it into words.Thank you.

 

[CosmicINFJ]

@Gale @CosmicINFJ

I hope I haven't given a "there's no hope" type post above, I just wanted to be honest about how things are. In spite of that, I have a great deal of hope that things will change and improve. I think it's sometimes the nature of things, that stuff has to go wrong, before it can change and get better again. On a personal note, I am determined to do all I can to push back, and I am not alone in that. By any means.

I am very lucky. I live in a country where I can get free medical attention, there is a stable govt (though I don't support this current govt at all) and it is mostly a safe and good place to live. In the last 5 years, things have gotten worse, but I want my focus to be on what can be done to turn that around, over the next 5 years, and more. And not just in my country. Everywhere.

Life can be harsh and cruel and difficult to take, but it can also be beautiful at times.

Thanks James

 

[Asa]

Harsher, shallower. I'd give similar reasons to those already stated. Aside from those issues, people treat each other like we're online all the time and act like there are zero consequences to disrespectful or hurtful behaviors.

 

[Sandie33]

Harsher and less forgiving, more exploitive, and divisive. Mostly because of fierce competition and social darwinism, and similar to what @James said, less social protections or safety nets. The push is towards working harder and faster with fewer gains and less income to show for it. Productivity is more important than humanity. A person's use value is more important their individual wants or needs. Less social accountability or social support, and fewer or no expectations of community support. More "independence" and isolationism or segregation leads to elitism and separatism. More focus on conflict rather than resolution, and more emphasis on rights rather than protecting what we do have. Less patience and more demand (in attitude and commerce) but fewer resources to spread around without the cash to fund it. Less "need" for others because everyone is supposed to be Independent (a very misunderstood and misused word) and more focus on self sufficiency leading to "I take care of me" and "you take care of you", and never the twain should have to meet. Less safety and loss of privacy. Technological determinism and social manipulation valuing personal needs above social or societal benefits. Less certainty and more dependency. Less stability and fewer options for social mobility. Social manipulation focused on means to end, rather than the health of people in all areas being an end in itself. Oh, and want or need for social support diminishes the value of affection and puts more emphasis on satisfying physical desires. In other words, you the person is not as important as what you can give me or what I can get from you. Using each other is no longer something to be ashamed of, it's a SOP. Yeah. Not sure I covered it all, but I think I came close.

Well said @Gale

@CosmicINFJ
This is such a sore and thorny topic for many.
It seems balanced here. No more harsher than 5 years ago, yet a struggle to move towrd better. After all I come from a small farming town and I'm certain it does not compare to life in a city or Metro area.

Around my small orbit, (for lack of better analogy), in the local community many have the same ideology as I. That there is hope. At least locally, on a smaller scale. The individuation, materialistic, greedy, cynicism of "Horray for me and to hell with you" mindset is few and far between here. Yes, there are still cliques of people herding up as protective measure against the unknown. However, as a community we are all working to assist each other and share resources so we all may continue to live well.

I just flow along, because in reality, what will be will come, whether we are happy, or some other feeling about it.

 

[Littlelissa]

Around my small orbit, (for lack of better analogy), in the local community many have the same ideology as I. That there is hope. At least locally, on a smaller scale. The individuation, materialistic, greedy, cynicism of "Horray for me and to hell with you" mindset is few and far between here.

This definitely seems the best answer to the ills of society today. It's great that people are doing things like this. Where I am too there are various schemes and community initiatives that people are involved in that help people. An alternative bank and borrowing agency, allotments and a transition town project, a LETTS scheme where people can trade skills. The Scots are also quite socialist in their values so there also seems to be more help around generally. It definitely makes a difference. Where these things aren't in place the community can also get together, like Sadie33 described, and get something together themselves, quite inspiring really. Big organisations and governments can't stop people getting together and working together to create hope.

 

[CosmicINFJ]

If I subtract Government and Corporate and connect with People, I find that most people are generally kind. In the Corporate competitive world some people seem quite willing to step on other people to get what they want. Not sure if this is worse now, but probably. I also agree that Government support for less fortunate people worldwide has declined. It seems like Government for the Corporations instead of Government for the People has reached extreme levels. Also I think it's harder for people to succeed because technology is replacing people and there is this persistent pressure on inflation adjusted income. The wealth effect that technology was purported to engender has not happened for the majority of people. The income gap between the extremely wealthy and almost everyone else has widened. Everyone has become replaceable. I also agree that technology and social media has changed the way people behave towards each other. I think a combination of all of these things mentioned above has made people harder, less patient and less tolerant of others.

 

[Wyote]

I think it's generally the same, just more emotionally disconnected.

 

[CosmicINFJ]

Well said @Gale

@CosmicINFJ
This is such a sore and thorny topic for many.
It seems balanced here. No more harsher than 5 years ago, yet a struggle to move towrd better. After all I come from a small farming town and I'm certain it does not compare to life in a city or Metro area.

Around my small orbit, (for lack of better analogy), in the local community many have the same ideology as I. That there is hope. At least locally, on a smaller scale. The individuation, materialistic, greedy, cynicism of "Horray for me and to hell with you" mindset is few and far between here. Yes, there are still cliques of people herding up as protective measure against the unknown. However, as a community we are all working to assist each other and share resources so we all may continue to live well.

I just flow along, because in reality, what will be will come, whether we are happy, or some other feeling about it.

I like how you describe your community. I think perhaps that focusing more on our smaller orbits is healthy.

 

[Trifoilum]

oh boy, much harsher.

You don't even have to look far-- even this very forum feels much harsher these days than it was in 2012.

but the changes HAVE started before 2012. Much longer than that, really.

 

[CosmicINFJ]

oh boy, much harsher.

You don't even have to look far-- even this very forum feels much harsher these days than it was in 2012.

but the changes HAVE started before 2012. Much longer than that, really.

Thanks for your comment. I took a poll on twitter. Harsher or Kinder and Gentler? 38 people voted. 4 voted that Society was Kinder and Gentler than it was 5 years ago.

 

[Scientia]

I think it's generally the same, just more emotionally disconnected.

I think this.

 

[CosmicINFJ]

I think this.

and @Wyote

Please elaborate on emotional disconnection. Is it you or others? Do you disconnect to protect yourself from the harshness of the world or for other reasons? If it's others, why do you think people have increased their disconnection?

 

[Wyote]

and @Wyote

Please elaborate on emotional disconnection. Is it you or others? Do you disconnect to protect yourself from the harshness of the world or for other reasons? If it's others, why do you think people have increased their disconnection?

As far as how it relates to me, it's not that I have become disconnected (at least not by choice) but that I have found myself having a more difficult time in my attempts to connect in genuine ways. People have become less willing and less able to have "reasonable" discussion. Things have moved into a high alert and panic narrative. Everything is a catastrophe. If it's not a catastrophe then it is uninteresting and unworthy of discussion. That's not to say there aren't plenty of reasonable people out there still, there are. It's just that the grip of this emotionally escalated narrative has taken hold of a larger and larger number of people over my lifetime.

The internet has created a large mirror in effect, wherein people are constantly scrutinizing their own behavior, leaving less time for the openness of others as well as causing that smaller amount of time to be filled with a greater amount of judgment (often negative). People see the best and worst of humanity on a more regular basis and then compare peers on those extremes more than the reality, which is more comfortably somewhere in the middle for most people.

Overstimulation creates anxiety which leads to apathy. Apathy creates disconnection.
We aren't meant to live lives with so much sensory input and cognitive demand.
We are in the infancy of learning to live with the massive amount of technology that we have created.
There are other things as well, but this is a piece of it.

http://reset.me/story/overstimulation-taming-a-modern-problem-that-leads-to-anxiety/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_processing_disorder