Social scapegoats | INFJ Forum

Social scapegoats

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by wolly.green, Oct 9, 2019 at 8:57 AM.

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  1. wolly.green

    wolly.green Community Member

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    What do you think of this womans perspective on scapegoats? If you've ever been a scapegoat for you social group, which kind were you?
    1. You accepted your role because its the only way you feel safe.
    2. You start to resented the people in your life and felt intense hatred.
    3. You idolize the idea of "being responsible". So you accepted the role of "responsible citizen" out of a fear of not feeling good enough.

     
    #1 wolly.green, Oct 9, 2019 at 8:57 AM
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 11:37 AM
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  2. Ren

    Ren Pin's android and co-founder of Stoic Café

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    Who is the "woman" you're referencing as the author?

    Sounds like a dangerous false trilemma. Those three options don't seem to be collectively exhaustive at all.
     
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  3. OP
    wolly.green

    wolly.green Community Member

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    Oops my bad, I posted the video I was referring too.

    Please explain. Why is it dangerous?
     
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  4. sassafras

    sassafras Well-known monster
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    I can see someone with very poor self-awareness or covert narcissism fully embracing this identity. I’m not doing anything wrong, it’s the people who are wrong. I’m just a social scapegoat! It’s my spiritual lesson!
     
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  5. Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    Nothing against this thread...by all means carry on.
    Just FYI....Teal Swan (the gal in the video) is effing crazy.
    I wouldn’t trust much of what she has to say...she is also the very definition of a “spiritual bully”.


    Teal Swan (born June 16, 1984) is an American spiritual teacher, author, and social media personality.[1]
    Critics of Swan have called her a cult leader and, due to her unorthodox methods, have nicknamed her "The Suicide Catalyst".[2]
    Swan was born in Santa Fe, New Mexico on June 16, 1984.[3]
    According to her, she was born with extrasensory abilities such as clairvoyance, "clairsentience", and "clairaudience".[4]
    She has claimed to be an alien from the star Arcturus.[5]
    She claims to have been a victim of Satanic ritual abuse from the ages of 6-19, in order to cure her of her supposed extrasensory abilities.[6][4]
    Part of this alleged abuse included being sewn into a corpse.[7]
    In particular, she has had TV interviews in 2014 regarding her ritual abuse conducted by Chris Oswalt and sent to Fox9, Kivi 6 and Idaho News.[8]
    Swan claims that she has memories of these events which were repressed, until a Salt Lake City based therapist helped her uncover them.[7]
    An investigation was opened into her claims before being ultimately shut down due to several accusations being made against her therapist, Dr. Barbara Snow, who incited Satanic Panic.[7]

    Teal Swan is a cult leader “spiritual guru” with some dangerous ideas about mental health. She claims to be part alien and to have extrasensory abilities which she uses to “heal” others’ psychological ailments, communicating with her large following via YouTube videos, speaking tours, and at her “spiritual retreat” in Costa Rica. She has made some troubling comments about suicide, and at least one of her followers has committed suicide shortly after a conversation with Teal about it.

    Gizmodo recently launched a highly recommended six-part podcast — called ‘The Gateway’ — all about Swan, her upbringing, her pseudoscientific methods, her supernatural beliefs, and her followers.

    Swan perpetuates the concept that symptoms of mental illness are necessarily rooted in repressed memories of childhood abuse. While traumatic events undoubtedly contribute to and cause mental illness, the idea that someone who, for example, suffers from depression but remembers a normal childhood must have repressed memories of traumatic events is extraordinarily harmful. The traumatic events were so horrendous, the narrative goes, that the brain must prevent the conscious recollection of them — a debunked concept of memory that runs contrary to the state of cognitive science today.

    This is more than reminiscent of the Satanic Panic — the period during the 80s and 90s when it was believed, based on “memories” of abuse “recovered” by mental health practitioners, that nonexistent roving groups of satanists were kidnapping and abusing children — it’s quite literally the same thing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teal_Swan

    https://web.archive.org/web/2018101...l-swans-therapist-instigated-a-satanic-panic/
     
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    #5 Skarekrow, Oct 9, 2019 at 7:17 PM
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 7:40 PM
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  6. OP
    wolly.green

    wolly.green Community Member

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    Oh im not doing this because Im emotionally damaged. Im asking from an entirely theoretical perspective. I just want to know what INFJ's think about her perspective on scapegoating. Thats it.

    Anyway, I followed your links. And I can't find any videos of her directly saying what shes accused of saying.

    Edit: Nevermind I found some of it. God she is a little nutty. But still, im not really asking about her.
     
    #6 wolly.green, Oct 9, 2019 at 8:35 PM
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 8:48 PM
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  7. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    What are her credentials? I've watched about half of this and it seems like she is talking about herself a lot in this (indirectly). It comes off as very personal. But I'm going to finish watching.
     
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  8. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    Ah, ok.
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Wyote

    Wyote ○●○
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    Scapegoats are the worst
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. OP
    wolly.green

    wolly.green Community Member

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    I don't think she has any... Besides being the victim of an actual cult.
     
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  11. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    I can't help but listen to her and hear that she is talking about herself. It is clear to me in every awkward angry laugh. I don't find her credible. I think she might be targeting vulnerable people who aren't ready to truly seek therapy. She's building an empire doing it, as she invites you to watch her many many other videos in the end and to purchase her books.
     
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  12. OP
    wolly.green

    wolly.green Community Member

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    What do you think about her theory in particular though? What is a flaw that you see in it?
     
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  13. sassafras

    sassafras Well-known monster
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    This video and this Teal Swan person aside, I think there is some merit to social scapegoating. My kneejerk reaction to this post was specifically to the video and this recent spiritual trend that has a lot of people barreling head first into narcissistic martyr behavior. I think most people can cite examples of contemptible people in their lives who revel in their social pariah-status without realizing that their own behavior is to blame (see: covert narcissists, passive-aggressives, socially awkwards mistaking arrogance for confidence, etc).

    That being said, I do not deny that there are perfectly mild-mannered individuals out there who, for some reason, are social losers. No matter how kind or outwardly well-adjusted they first seem, they always end up bullied, outcast and ridiculed wherever they go. It's like it IS an energy thing; like these people quietly think they're bad or pathetic, and unconsciously broadcast those feelings outward and then have people reflect it back at them.

    I do wonder why this happens. Any thoughts?
     
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    #13 sassafras, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:48 PM
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 11:29 PM
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  14. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    I do not agree that the vast majority of children seeing therapists are taken by parents who are scapegoating them. Kind of a wild claim. I think it's a way for her to subtly disparage the profession.

    It does make sense that people who are scapegoated will live out a pattern of guilt and internalize that there is something wrong with them. But I don't think that's a new concept. People with poor self concepts attract exploitive people. This all reminds me of codependency.
     
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    #14 acd, Oct 10, 2019 at 1:02 AM
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  15. OP
    wolly.green

    wolly.green Community Member

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    Alot of this is new to me. Most of it is very much centered around extraverted decider problems. For example, this idea of taking responsibility for others is really new to me. I'm Ti, so I never had this problem with wanting to save everyone and not knowing what I want.
     
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  16. Hostarius

    Hostarius Level 10 Cynical Optimist

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    It sucks.
     
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  17. BritNi

    BritNi Perceptive Optimist

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    You can't be a social scapegoat or know a social scapegoat if you're not social.

    Problem solved.



    But, if isolation isn't possible, just hug everyone. That solves everything.



    I really have no idea what I'm talking about.
     
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    #17 BritNi, Oct 10, 2019 at 4:04 AM
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019 at 1:35 PM
  18. Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    Sorry it’s taken a couple days to get back to you, I wasn’t online much. ;)

    The links in the article as reference numbers are from Wikipedia so I didn’t check all the citation links.
    It isn’t hard however to find lots of information on her.

    Please keep in mind I’m not attacking you at all Wolly.
    :<3white:

    I have to agree with @acd on this one.
    I would encourage you to watch a few more of her videos or try to listen to her meditations.
    I’ve never heard someone scream angrily during a guided meditation until I listened to one of hers...I turned it off at that point. ;)

    Her stories of Satanic ritual child abuse that were “recalled” under hypnosis by a therapist who has been discredited are unfounded and is very hard to believe most of what she says as there is so much ambiguity in her stories.

    To answer your questions, I don’t feel like I’ve been socially scapegoated in my life in any significant way that had any sort of detrimental effect.
    IMO Teal has an severe lack of empathy, sympathy, compassion, or even kindness toward other people.
    In one particular video a clearly distraught young woman tells her while crying that her sister just committed suicide two weeks prior.
    Teal’s reaction?
    “Good, just in time for my talk.”

    A normal person doesn’t respond like that.
    She openly promotes suicide to those who are suicidal, and even suggests it to those who are not - claiming that with her ESP powers she can see that they really want to, they just don’t know it.
    Not surprisingly her first client killed herself -
    “I actually, interestingly enough, lost my first client to suicide this last year. And this was a woman who was absolutely miserable. I’m talking every moment of her life was a nightmare. And so we had that very serious sit-down talk where we had to say, alright, we’re either committing or not committing to life because every time I gave her a suggestion she’d stop in two days doing the suggestion. So then we have to ask the question do we really want this to work. And what’s interesting is that when she asked herself that question the answer was, “No. I’m done.” There’s nothing that any healer could ever do for that type of vibration which is totally fine. From source energy there’s nothing wrong with death from that perspective. So, she chose to commit suicide.”

    First she talks mad shit about this lady who was suffering and came to her for help.
    Then, according to Teal...if she couldn’t heal/help her, no one could help this lady.
    Just kill yourself right?
    Sick.

    “What suicide is, is pushing the reset button. It’s not a good or bad decision in and of itself.”

    She has taken the teachings of various others like Abraham Hicks and other new age-type beliefs and ideas...put her own oftentimes incorrect spin on them and espoused them as her own.
    Which is fine if you are legitimately helping people or have training to help people in such ways - but one can argue that she is espousing dangerous ideas often to depressed and vulnerable people...again with zero compassion or kindness in the way she speaks to people.
    Ultimately, she wants people to pay her for her services or books...and that money is not the problem so it’s okay to monetize it all...earning her the name the “Gucci Guru".

    "Teal has plagiarized many authors. The list includes psychologist and author John Welwood, Robert Agustus Masters, the website of SOAS University of London, Dr. Joel Isaacs, an article on Recoveryranch.com, Mayo Clinic’s website, a Collective-Evolution writer named Vanessa Petronelli, Wikipedia, and the show Fullmetal Alchemist.

    Teal has also plagiarized Michael Brown, author of The Presence Process and Alchemy of the Heart. The post Teal wrote defending herself against these accusations is full of half-truths and misinformation. For example, compare her vague summary of Week 9 of TPP to the section in this post titled “Core Negative Patterns.”

    The section titled “Mining for Gold” in Teal’s book Shadows Before Dawn was taken from a blog post by Steve Pavlina."

    She has videos where she talks about how wrong people are who question her “powers” - which she claims are as great as the Siddhi (water to wine, levitation, walking on water, etc.) but cannot show you lest people worship her and not the teachings.
    But then goes on to talk about how she was created by the “greenpeace of the universe” to be extra attractive and beautiful so people would pay attention to what she has to say...okaaay.

    The more you watch her in videos and interviews the more like a cult leader and sociopath she comes of as.
    She claims she was subjected to electroshock brainwashing by said satanic cult leader and that she cannot plug electronics into the wall now lest she get shocked???
    Also...sewn into a corpse at age 8?
    Impossible.
    Literally physically impossible.
    Even if you took out all the organs.
    Keep in mind that her claims were investigated and dismissed for having no merit.
    This was even discussed with medical examiners.
    Not saying that ritual abuse doesn’t happen to people or children in rare cases, just that she has a definite credibility problem.

    Oh...that client of her’s that killed herself...she ended that story by saying - “It was only two days before she reincarnated, hahaha”
    Audience....”Hahaha”
    Fucking hilarious.
    She’s fine...ignore that I encouraged her to do it.

    “So, here’s what I want you to try. Number one, you have to know that you can always kill yourself tomorrow. You can always kill yourself in five minutes in fact. And what does this do for us when we actually acknowledge that this is the case. It makes it so that suicide can be our safety net, or a reset button that’s always available to us.”

    Example of her great ESP powers in an interview with a client of her’s....Teal puts words in the guest’s mouth, make an unfounded assumption about her psychological state, and potentially exacerbates her problems by putting self-destructive thoughts into the guest’s mind.
    Additionally, Teal teaches the guest to not trust herself and exacerbates the followers’ problems by instilling these self-destructive thoughts.

    Guest: Because I want to be happy and I want to live?

    Teal: That’s also a cop-out. Because you don’t. I want to be happy and I want to live is not the real truth for you. Do you see that? You’re the kind of person who really doesn’t actually want to live yet. You haven’t committed to life yet. So, that’s just a lie. Sure, you would like it if life felt good but you don’t. But you don’t feel like it’s possible so you would rather die.

    WTF?
    She clearly thinks she knows better than this woman what she is thinking...and if you question this “ability” she goes off on people as do her other followers.

    "Swan was able to convince one follower he had been 'brutally sodomized' by a gray alien, and told another that her cat was a 'holographic soul projection from the planet Sirius' who was trying to warn them about their blood sugar."

    Very anti-vaccine...claims you get sick when your vibrations get too low that your cells die and the bacteria and viruses then eat the dead cells...derp.

    So yeah, in the video you posted Wolly...I think she is playing up the martyr role, again as was suggested.
    I’m sure that social scapegoating happens, but I don’t think so to the extent she claims....it’s fairly clear that she is talking about herself for the most part.
    Getting a child help who is having social difficulties is not wrong in and of itself...it can be done wrongly as can anything.

    I honestly think that Teal Swan has severe mental issues...if she isn’t full-blown psychotic....she was in fact diagnosed with schizophrenia at age 16.
    She has a child that was removed from her custody by the courts.
    She received a Cease and Desist letter threatened jail time for practicing therapy without a license and responded to this by moving to Costa Rica.
    She compares herself to Jesus, the Dali Lama, Socrates, etc.
    Claims Hitler was the best thing for world peace ever - “The person who added to peace more than anyone else on this planet was Hitler."

    Here is an interview with her alleged abuser for context:
    http://thetruthaboutcameron.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-complete-interview-of-teal-swans.html

    "Teal uses methods that have been proven to lead to false memories and confabulation. While guiding people through her processes and counseling them on stage during workshops, she has been recorded asking leading questions, using persuasive language, telling subjects how they feel and what they are perceiving, and attempting to convince them that they have repressed traumatic memories that must be recovered using her techniques. Here, she states that people “often need a bit of coaxing” from their therapists in order to recover repressed memories.

    Teal has demonstrated that she is willing to cause emotional and psychological distress in her followers to advance her own agenda. Here, she instructs her viewers to relive the greatest trauma from their past in vivid detail. She then instructs them to imagine her denying that the traumatic events had never happened to them, saying, “Do you feel like you’re going crazy yet?” This comment left below the video demonstrates how cruel and psychologically damaging the exercise is."

    I know your questions were on the context of what she is saying....but I feel it’s important to know where her ideas are coming from and how she twists legit teachings around.

    Perhaps she was molested and abused...I cannot say for sure, but to the extent of being sewn in a corpse - nope.
    She is pushy and downright cruel with the way she talks to people who come to her for help.

    Even before knowing all this, one can see by watching her that something is wrong - and now I’m socially scapegoating her too right?
    Poor Teal.
     
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    #18 Skarekrow, Oct 11, 2019 at 5:49 PM
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019 at 6:02 PM
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  19. Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    Her tactics seem to confuse the guest/client with “word salad” containing a jumble of legit features and many that are just confusing and seemingly make no sense....acting the whole time as if she has some superior knowledge you are lacking, and selling herself as the only one who can make sense of the nonsense and enlighten you otherwise.

    Cheers!
     
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  20. Lady Jolanda

    Lady Jolanda Perpetual state of doubt.
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    Ah, the good old Scientology method.
     
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