Pushing Buttons...
- Thread starter Cait Takara
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- Aug 21, 2015
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Could you please include some context, @Cait Takara?
Well I was on reddit and I got a suggestion for a community r/narcissist and this user posted and said she was diagnosed as narcissistic by a therapist, and her friends held an intervention because she thought her behavior was normal.
So when she started to explain behavior patterns such as using people to her advantage friend relationship or otherwise and their emotions following discarding them didn't matter because they will "eventually get over it." I had to ask some probing questions.
I was curious because she wasn't interested in getting help to control her behavior, moreso that continuing it would bottom out her ability to use these people. Mind you she stated she was born into money and very successful, I didn't understand why she had to use others if she was well off. Though very successful supposedly it seemed rather important that the attention and adoration she received from those around her continued despite how she treated them in return. So I questioned her on how she could have remorse for a prior toxic behavior then immediately do it again. It doesn't seem logical if she truly had remorse and thought about her actions. She couldn't answer that. Then I asked "Why do you need to employ others to give to you what you can give yourself?" In reference to having self-esteem you know? She couldn't answer that either. She did say that if it weren't for the fact that everyone would think negatively about her and it would cause the people she needed and refused to live without would leave. Later she must have got annoyed with my questions that slowly contradicted her OP and she switched gears from kinda feeling shitty to gloating for lack of better words about the destruction she had brought to others lives.
I asked "So even if someone has no intention and would not do the same to you, you have no problem using them or lying to benefit yourself?" She finally got to a point of annoyance that led to "Look I don't NOT like receiving gifts or attention, and if I have to use someone to get them then so be it. They allowed me to do it so it's not on me. Their emotions following that is not my problem."
Her answers the whole way through didn't convey to me whatsoever that she was concerned with her behavior and how it negatively impacted those around her. Moreso that she needed those people to benefit her whether by flattery, gifts, or love. She stated she was loaded it's not like she needed a handout.
The last question from me was...
"Who the f*ck do you think you are?! To treat people as if they are a mere tissue you can dispose of after you use or abuse them to obtain from them that of which you cannot obtain yourself. So enjoy life now. You may get this brief time to continue your maltreatment in denial and without consequence whilst alive, but only because your eternity will be vastly different."
And so that is the WWIII you see above.
So when she started to explain behavior patterns such as using people to her advantage friend relationship or otherwise and their emotions following discarding them didn't matter because they will "eventually get over it." I had to ask some probing questions.
I was curious because she wasn't interested in getting help to control her behavior, moreso that continuing it would bottom out her ability to use these people. Mind you she stated she was born into money and very successful, I didn't understand why she had to use others if she was well off. Though very successful supposedly it seemed rather important that the attention and adoration she received from those around her continued despite how she treated them in return. So I questioned her on how she could have remorse for a prior toxic behavior then immediately do it again. It doesn't seem logical if she truly had remorse and thought about her actions. She couldn't answer that. Then I asked "Why do you need to employ others to give to you what you can give yourself?" In reference to having self-esteem you know? She couldn't answer that either. She did say that if it weren't for the fact that everyone would think negatively about her and it would cause the people she needed and refused to live without would leave. Later she must have got annoyed with my questions that slowly contradicted her OP and she switched gears from kinda feeling shitty to gloating for lack of better words about the destruction she had brought to others lives.
I asked "So even if someone has no intention and would not do the same to you, you have no problem using them or lying to benefit yourself?" She finally got to a point of annoyance that led to "Look I don't NOT like receiving gifts or attention, and if I have to use someone to get them then so be it. They allowed me to do it so it's not on me. Their emotions following that is not my problem."
Her answers the whole way through didn't convey to me whatsoever that she was concerned with her behavior and how it negatively impacted those around her. Moreso that she needed those people to benefit her whether by flattery, gifts, or love. She stated she was loaded it's not like she needed a handout.
The last question from me was...
"Who the f*ck do you think you are?! To treat people as if they are a mere tissue you can dispose of after you use or abuse them to obtain from them that of which you cannot obtain yourself. So enjoy life now. You may get this brief time to continue your maltreatment in denial and without consequence whilst alive, but only because your eternity will be vastly different."
And so that is the WWIII you see above.
Sorry I posted the other response in the wrong reply area. Something weird though, I'm still unsure of how I was in the wrong for questioning her on what she admitted was a complete lie in the first place. In one fail swoop I'm a child molester, predator, neurotic, and overall need to commit suicide?? Lol
- Sep 28, 2008
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Definitely a key marker and ideology of a textbook narcissist.
Sadly, you provided them with exactly what they wanted by engaging with them in this way.
Narcissistic supply can and will be obtained through both positive and negative means.
You may feel as though you've won something here, by getting a reaction.
But the reality is, they still got their drama supply.
- Aug 21, 2015
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I do agree with @Wyote that ignoring people with NPD is the best option. Their behavior is not based on ethics or logic. If arguing with people on the internet entertains you, I guess this is a win, though.
Very true, I just find it odd and interesting that when asked direct questions, or poking holes in their story that nice person they claim to be falls to the wayside QUICK. Evading the question and tossing insults that aren't answers. I do know it bothers them when insults fail, when you act unphased. Its impossible to insult someone when they know who they are and what isnt applicable. I did consider it a small victory after she announced she lied and everyone there replied "wtf?" or "why would you even lie?". I said "Look EVERYONE can now SEE who you truly are." Narcs hate that. She deleted the entire post in less than a minute, she couldn't handle it lol
- Sep 28, 2008
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Nobody really likes being called out/shamed publicly, narc or not.
The difference is that narcs make no attempt to restore anything, unless it serves to gain them more supply.
So you engaged a narcissist, suggested everyone could see them, and did so without body armor and a class 5 blaster.
And yet, you live still.
Their psychology is resistant to introspection, whether of the grandiose or fearful prrsentation. As was said, avoid them.
They are in a kind of hell, and doing the best they know how. That said, my charity ends when they look at me and see a feed bag. Fuck that.
Take Care of Yourself,
Ian
And yet, you live still.
Their psychology is resistant to introspection, whether of the grandiose or fearful prrsentation. As was said, avoid them.
They are in a kind of hell, and doing the best they know how. That said, my charity ends when they look at me and see a feed bag. Fuck that.
Take Care of Yourself,
Ian
I figure if the general consensus here is that no attention=no supply, I think it preemptively combats their ability to do that once people see what who they are. I'm on the same page as most here I just have a different approach as an individual versus another individual. There's more than one way to skin a cat kind of thing? Assuming I'm an argumentative pos who seeks to entertain themselves by arguing via a backhanded compliment or suggesting I'm wrong because I don't handle them the exact same way another individual chooses to isn't wrong. Plus if asking questions is the same as arguing then idk. What's the difference if I'm supposedly arguing on the internet versus another who indirectly shames another for not handling a situation the exact way they would themselves? As if to suggest being an individual is wrong..
So you engaged a narcissist, suggested everyone could see them, and did so without body armor and a class 5 blaster.
And yet, you live still.
Their psychology is resistant to introspection, whether of the grandiose or fearful prrsentation. As was said, avoid them.
They are in a kind of hell, and doing the best they know how. That said, my charity ends when they look at me and see a feed bag. Fuck that.
Take Care of Yourself,
Ian
I would like to say in my experience they don't generally come back once they are read. At least it hasn't happened to me yet. So in a roundabout way that cuts off their supply at least from me. I guess I don't mind one interaction I know I can handle if that deters them from ever coming back around. They will unfortunately manage to get it from another, this I know.
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I think you are conflating things a bit.
Idk why you're being defensive but nobody here is trying to take a dig at you or anything.
It's just very important that people understand the best way to deal with these circumstances, which is to disengage.
A lot of people think they can "handle" a narcissist but until you've dealt with one first hand you won't grasp how critical it really is.
Lots of nuanced things can be done to navigate towards that direction (away from them), which it sounds like is what you aim for.
Keep in mind, they exercised their agency and autonomy and chose to leave. They used you, and when they had extracted enough blood from your would-be stone, they abandoned you.
What did they take from you? Your attention, your focus, and your persistence. Your choice to engage was to them another proof that they were not just worthy, but special, and deserving of your choice. In becoming supply, you unintentionally hardened and strengthened the shell surrounding their true self, thereby relieving them, for a while, of the profound self-loathing which is their suffering.
One does not handle a narcissist...a narcissist handles you. Of course, thatʼs polite... the reality is more like Shelob discarding a dried out husk.
Fuck around and find out. You will lose.
How do I know? I was reared by one, and later in life, I dated one.
My language is perhaps not the best when it comes to being serious, so I will say it plainly.
Avoid them, lest you suffer and be grievously wounded.
Best to You,
Ian
There's something about this which seems like making fun of a person's disability.
On the one hand, of course you can't expect/trust a person with narcissistic personality disorder to be kind or compassionate. Similarly, you cannot trust a blind person to safely drive a vehicle. On the other hand, it seems pointless or gratuitous to point out to a narcissist that they're narcissistic, just as it would be to yell at a blind person that they can't see anything.
There are many sorts of disabilities, mental and physical around in the community. Some may make people more vulnerable, and some may make others more dangerous. Keeping everyone safe is a good objective, but it shouldn't involve bullying, mocking, criticising, etc for conditions people don't have a choice in. As for people with dangerous disabilities, like narcissism, one has to take into account every person's need for social contact with others, while accounting for the unreciprocal nature of the interactions due to their disability.
Personally, I think it's relatively safe and right for people to offer a limited kind of friendlyness/friendship to narcissists, sociopaths, addicts, paranoid people, people with ptsd, etc, as long as strict boundaries are enforced by the non-disabled (abled?) person.
Essentially, with some unwell people, one has to take on something of a carer role, instead of a friendship or critic role.
On the one hand, of course you can't expect/trust a person with narcissistic personality disorder to be kind or compassionate. Similarly, you cannot trust a blind person to safely drive a vehicle. On the other hand, it seems pointless or gratuitous to point out to a narcissist that they're narcissistic, just as it would be to yell at a blind person that they can't see anything.
There are many sorts of disabilities, mental and physical around in the community. Some may make people more vulnerable, and some may make others more dangerous. Keeping everyone safe is a good objective, but it shouldn't involve bullying, mocking, criticising, etc for conditions people don't have a choice in. As for people with dangerous disabilities, like narcissism, one has to take into account every person's need for social contact with others, while accounting for the unreciprocal nature of the interactions due to their disability.
Personally, I think it's relatively safe and right for people to offer a limited kind of friendlyness/friendship to narcissists, sociopaths, addicts, paranoid people, people with ptsd, etc, as long as strict boundaries are enforced by the non-disabled (abled?) person.
Essentially, with some unwell people, one has to take on something of a carer role, instead of a friendship or critic role.
- Aug 21, 2015
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This wasn't a judgment. We all engage in various activities on the internet for whatever reason.
We're all just cautioning you that the best course of action with NPDs is grey rocking or choosing a relationship with strict boundaries. If this conversation had been in person, I'd probably be pushy about staying clear of them for your own protection, but since it was Reddit, it's probably one of the safer ways to poke the hornet's nest.
What was your motivation for this interaction? Was it just a curiosity about how human brains work? Honesty, it is 100% better to get narcissist experience on an internet thread than IRL.
I think it's better to react to someone who has a narcissistic mental disorder a bit like we react to someone who has a possibly dangerous (to others) infection. By that I mean a mixture of concern and sympathy, but with precautions taken so that others including ourselves don't get hurt. In a way, it's rather like we treat large, potentially dangerous animals in the wild if we respect them. The trouble is that the behaviour of a narcissist treads on all sorts of ethical boundaries - sins in another terminology. How far is the person concerned culpable? It's hard to say! How far can they alter their behaviour to be acceptable in good society? Again it's hard to say - some will be more able than others and I doubt any of them can be argued into it. It's probably more like the way we help people who have defective superegos to construct a surrogate one by working through a voluntary rational process, but that takes a lot of time, effort and support from a therapist, a low emotion environment and a lot of commitment from the sufferer.
I was thinking as I read through the posts here that there are parallels with people who suffer from dementia. These poor folks too can be very unsociable in their behaviours and others can get hurt in the process - I've had to deal with dementia in both my parents and it's not easy. The problem if you engage with them in the wrong sort of way is that you become dragged into their worldview, and you start to argue with them on their own ground. It's futile, and you just come away drained emotionally, with no good outcome for the other. Trying to persuade my dad in the later stages that aliens were not beaming germs into his bedroom was a nightmare . At least this is not easy to mistake for a moral deficiency, which is why narcissist are thought of as bad people whilst folks with dementia are not. I suspect that trying to argue a narcissist into acknowledging their condition or to be empathic is as futile, and for analogous reasons.
I was thinking as I read through the posts here that there are parallels with people who suffer from dementia. These poor folks too can be very unsociable in their behaviours and others can get hurt in the process - I've had to deal with dementia in both my parents and it's not easy. The problem if you engage with them in the wrong sort of way is that you become dragged into their worldview, and you start to argue with them on their own ground. It's futile, and you just come away drained emotionally, with no good outcome for the other. Trying to persuade my dad in the later stages that aliens were not beaming germs into his bedroom was a nightmare . At least this is not easy to mistake for a moral deficiency, which is why narcissist are thought of as bad people whilst folks with dementia are not. I suspect that trying to argue a narcissist into acknowledging their condition or to be empathic is as futile, and for analogous reasons.
- Aug 21, 2015
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When you see a narcissist in the wild, raise your arms to look bigger and make loud noises. Do not turn your back on the narcissist and do not run. When traveling in areas where narcissists live, wear bells or sing as you walk to scare them away unless you're in grizzly narcissist territory, then those methods are ineffective.