On Disagreeing | INFJ Forum

On Disagreeing

Trifoilum

find wisdom, build hope.
Dec 27, 2009
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Related to this; it's the form my Ni feels more comfortable with (as opposed to Fe)

What do you think about disagreeing?

I know a lot of people who tries so HARD to convince someone with different ideas that they resorted to intimidation, ad hominems, dissections, long diatribes on why their argument was sound and yours weren't, so they are right, goddammit, and you should follow them otherwise you're an idiot (I hope the desperation and the weirdness was sent), and I'm sure a lot of you knows those people too. We live in a(n internet) society, after all.

On another hand, some people can be like, whatever dude; wave hands, face palm, a silent stare of disbelief, and then they were gone. Sometimes they screams indifference; deflecting at best, dismissively invalidating at worst.

I understand the concept of ego defense, in this context; acknowledging another valid points on some ideas you're disagreeing with = acknowledging the flaws and negative aspects of your own ideas >> equally invalidating your experience; as if what you'd had, what you've lived with, learned of, believed; was wrong. Worthless. That a significant part* of you were wrong; not good. Not everyone wants to dissect and reassembly their self again and again and again.....not to mention for the poor ego (MY EGO! MY EGO! MY EGO IS RED WITH NEED, NEEDS A GOOD STROKING TO RELEASE ITS JOY!).

But were this always the case?
What would be the ideal form of disagreeing? Agreeing to disagree? What would you do for the beliefs you're disagreeing with, and all their related values?
 
Disagreement is extremely important in terms of developing understanding and communicating it. If it wasn't for this we would still think the world is flat.

Some people seem to disagree in a helpful way and others in an unhelpful way.

Generally, it seems the more over-invested you are in an opinion, the more likely you will not be able to discuss it, because it is almost as if one is gambling an emotional fortune, instead of risking a minor opinion change. I think cool detachment, as much as that is possible at times, is the most likely disposition to make constructive points in a disagreement. (But you can expect even this to be critiqued).


I guess being very interested, but not very attached to a subject leaves you keen enough to think and debate, but cool enough to be able to modify/adjust your positions when it seems reasonable.




My particular weakness in disagreements is that often, unless I am being especially conscientious about it, people's emotions on a subject (including my own) have almost zero relevance to my opinion. This is an incomplete perspective on a subject, because how a subject is perceived, while not strictly part of the subject, is somehow important anyway. It's a strange dysfunction in me (given that I'm INFJ) - when I discuss/debate I somehow become a-sympathetic.
 
I think agreeing to disagree is sometimes what it has to come to. The focus should never be about trying to convince others you are right, or that you know best, or that others are wrong. As soon as we start having to defend and attack we can no longer communicate and learn. I think its possible for almost any two people to work through any disparity in beliefs and opinions through real communication. This means that you have to love and respect the other person, and not see them as an enemy. And as [MENTION=862]Flavus Aquila[/MENTION] said, cool detachment works best. No one can really hurt you or make you feel inferior without your consent. Your ideas and beliefs are not who you are. They are just a set of principles that you have come to at this present time based on the sum of your experience and knowledge. You own and wear your beliefs, they do not own you and should not control you. if our beliefs and opinions change, all that means is that we are adaptable, capable of learning and smarter than what we were before. As individuals our knowledge is limited, but together we have a much greater pool. It seems only wise and resourceful to utilise the information in the greater communal pool and add it to our own. No one knows everything- anyone that thinks they do know nothing. Once we become attached to something we can no longer see or learn. Beliefs are the eyelids of the mind. Once one can separate him/herself from ego and find grace, nothing else can threaten them again. Then we can stop worry about being right or superior, actually listen to people and learn mutually from each other.

I think you are already good at this [MENTION=2172]Trifoilum[/MENTION]. I like the way you disagree.

This is and article that ive been exploring lately. It is from a spiritual perspective. It is very hard to put it into practice but I am trying (and failing a lot!):

Here are seven suggestions to help you transcend ingrained ideas of self-importance. All of these are designed to help prevent you from falsely identifying with the self-important ego.

1. Stop being offended.

The behavior of others isn’t a reason to be immobilized. That which offends you only weakens you. If you’re looking for occasions to be offended, you’ll find them at every turn. This is your ego at work convincing you that the world shouldn't be the way it is. But you can become an appreciator of life and match up with the universal Spirit of Creation. You can’t reach the power of intention by being offended. By all means, act to eradicate the horrors of the world, which emanate from massive ego identification, but stay in peace. Peace is of God, you who are part of God are not at home except in his peace. Being is of God, you who are part of God are not at home except in his peace. Being offended creates the same destructive energy that offended you in the first place and leads to attack, counterattack, and war.

2. Let go of your need to win.

Ego loves to divide us up into winners and losers. The pursuit of winning is a surefire means to avoid conscious contact with intention. Why? Because ultimately, winning is impossible all of the time. Someone out there will be faster, luckier, younger, stronger, and smarter-and back you’ll go to feeling worthless and insignificant.

You’re not your winnings or your victories. You may enjoy competing, and have fun in a world where winning is everything, but you don’t have to be there in your thoughts. There are no losers in a world where we all share the same energy source. All you can say on a given day is that you performed at a certain level in comparison to the levels of others on that day. But today is another day, with other competitors and new circumstances to consider. You’re still the infinite presence in a body that’s another day (or decade) older. Let go of needing to win by not agreeing that the opposite of winning is losing. That’s ego’s fear. If your body isn’t performing in a winning fashion on this day, it simply doesn’t matter when you aren’t identifying exclusively with your ego. Be the observer, noticing and enjoying it all without needing to win a trophy. Be at peace, and match up with the energy of intention. And ironically, although you’ll hardly notice it, more of those victories will show up in your life as you pursue them less.

3. Let go of your need to be right.

Ego is the source of a lot of conflict and dissension because it pushes you in the direction of making other people wrong. When you’re hostile, you’ve disconnected from the power of intention. The creative Spirit is kind, loving, and receptive; and free of anger, resentment, or bitterness. Letting go of your need to be right in your discussions and relationships is like saying to ego, I’m not a slave to you. I want to embrace kindness, and I reject your need to be right. In fact, I’m going to offer this person a chance to feel better by saying that she’s right, and thank her for pointing me in the direction of truth.

When you let go of the need to be right, you’re able to strengthen your connection to the power of intention. But keep in mind that ego is a determined combatant. I’ve seen people end otherwise beautiful relationships by sticking to their need to be right. I urge you to let go of this ego-driven need to be right by stopping yourself in the middle of an argument and asking yourself, Do I want to be right or be happy? When you choose the happy, loving, spiritual mood, your connection to intention is strengthened. These moments ultimately expand your new connection to the power of intention. The universal Source will begin to collaborate with you in creating the life you were intended to live.

4. Let go of your need to be superior.

True nobility isn’t about being better than someone else. It’s about being better than you used to be. Stay focused on your growth, with a constant awareness that no one on this planet is any better than anyone else. We all emanate from the same creative life force. We all have a mission to realize our intended essence; all that we need to fulfill our destiny is available to us. None of this is possible when you see yourself as superior to others. It’s an old saw, but nonetheless true: we are all equal in the eyes of God. Let go of your need to feel superior by seeing the unfolding of God in everyone. Don’t assess others on the basis of their appearance, achievements, possessions, and other indices of ego. When you project feelings of superiority that’s what you get back, leading to resentments and ultimately hostile feelings. These feelings become the vehicle that takes you farther away from intention. Special ness always makes comparisons. It is established by a lack seen in another, and maintained by searching for, and keeping clear in sight, all lacks it can perceive.

5. Let go of your need to have more.

The mantra of ego is more. It’s never satisfied. No matter how much you achieve or acquire, your ego will insist that it isn’t enough. You’ll find yourself in a perpetual state of striving, and eliminate the possibility of ever arriving. Yet in reality you’ve already arrived, and how you choose to use this present moment of your life is your choice. Ironically, when you stop needing more, more of what you desire seems to arrive in your life. Since you’re detached from the need for it, you find it easier to pass it along to others, because you realize how little you need in order to be satisfied and at peace.

The universal Source is content with itself, constantly expanding and creating new life, never trying to hold on to its creations for its own selfish means. It creates and lets go. As you let go of ego’s need to have more, you unify with that Source. You create, attract to yourself, and let it go, never demanding that more come your way. As an appreciator of all that shows up, you learn the powerful lesson St.Francis of Assisi taught:”…it is in giving that we receive.” By allowing abundance to flow to and through you, you match up with your Source and guarantee that this energy will continue to flow.

6. Let go of identifying yourself on the basis of your achievements.

This may be a difficult concept if you think you are your achievements. God writes all the music, God sings all the songs, God builds all the buildings, God is the source of all your achievements. I can hear your ego loudly protesting. Nevertheless, stay tuned to this idea. All emanates from Source! You and that Source are one! You’re not this body and its accomplishments. You are the observer. Notice it all; and be grateful for the abilities you’ve accumulated. But give all the credit to the power of intention, which brought you into existence and which you’re a materialized part of. The less you need to take credit for your achievements and the more connected you stay to the seven faces of intention, the more you’re free to achieve, and the more will show up for you. It’s when you attach yourself to those achievements and believe that you alone are doing all of those things that you leave the peace and the gratitude of your Source.

7. Let go of your reputation.

Your reputation is not located in you. It resides in the minds of others. Therefore, you have no control over it at all. If you speak to 30 people, you will have 30 reputations. Connecting to intention means listening to your heart and conducting yourself based on what your inner voice tells you is your purpose here. If you’re overly concerned with how you’re going to be perceived by everyone, then you’ve disconnected yourself from intention and allowed the opinions of others to guide you. This is your ego at work. It’s an illusion that stands between you and the power of intention. There’s nothing you can’t do, unless you disconnect from the power source and become convinced that your purpose is to prove to others how masterful and superior you are and spend your energy attempting to win a giant reputation among other egos. Do what you do because your inner voice always connected to and grateful to your Source-so directs you. Stay on purpose, detach from outcome, and take responsibility for what does reside in you: your character. Leave your reputation for others to debate; it has nothing to do with you

from http://spiritlibrary.com/wayne-w-dyer/seven-steps-for-overcoming-ego-s-hold-on-you