NT vs NF social anxiety

[Aliyen]

Hi,

I am a recently confirmed INFJ. For a while I identified as INTP until I read a site that made it clear that my NiFe dynamic was more pronounced.

In the past, I had serious social anxiety issues which I now realize were heightened in certain situations. I live in New York City, which is flooded with people, so as an introvert, I always felt a bit awkward in large gatherings. In college, this got really bad, because I'd be sitting in a lecture hall or classroom and feeling extremely isolated from those around me. I mistook this for NT isolation for a long time, so I was wondering if anyone had any insight on differentiating between the two.

I've read other threads on here and other forums that describe INFJ social anxiety as being 'flooded' with others' emotions, which created an Fe overload. I admit I never had this problem, and don't understand what it means. Basically, I would just observe peoples' behavior around me and think that they carried on conversations, made friends, and behaved far more 'human' than I did. Whereas I felt like an alien and sometimes was too shy to even speak up. Or I'd have this fear that I'd say something to someone next to me, and they wouldn't understand me, because it was like we were speaking two different languages.

Do you think I might be an NT, or just an INFJ who is judging myself too harshly? I did read that INFJs are extremely self-conscious of how they come off, so even when they are being perfectly normal in social situations, they are cognizant of every possible mistake, and fear not being as polite and 'proper' as they should be.

Can anyone relate?

 

[Reason]

I relate, have no idea if you're an NT or an NF though, insufficient information.

You said you think your NiFe dynamic is more "pronounced" could you elaborate please?

 

[Ren]

Hi,

I am a recently confirmed INFJ. For a while I identified as INTP until I read a site that made it clear that my NiFe dynamic was more pronounced.

In the past, I had serious social anxiety issues which I now realize were heightened in certain situations. I live in New York City, which is flooded with people, so as an introvert, I always felt a bit awkward in large gatherings. In college, this got really bad, because I'd be sitting in a lecture hall or classroom and feeling extremely isolated from those around me. I mistook this for NT isolation for a long time, so I was wondering if anyone had any insight on differentiating between the two.

I've read other threads on here and other forums that describe INFJ social anxiety as being 'flooded' with others' emotions, which created an Fe overload. I admit I never had this problem, and don't understand what it means. Basically, I would just observe peoples' behavior around me and think that they carried on conversations, made friends, and behaved far more 'human' than I did. Whereas I felt like an alien and sometimes was too shy to even speak up. Or I'd have this fear that I'd say something to someone next to me, and they wouldn't understand me, because it was like we were speaking two different languages.

Do you think I might be an NT, or just an INFJ who is judging myself too harshly? I did read that INFJs are extremely self-conscious of how they come off, so even when they are being perfectly normal in social situations, they are cognizant of every possible mistake, and fear not being as polite and 'proper' as they should be.

Can anyone relate?

Hi @Aliyen,

There is nothing in what you described that indicates non-INFJness. The self-consciousness is indeed a common trait, but not only that: you're opening up about it here. I think this might be a significant clue to what your type is.

Your feeling of extreme isolation might come from being very introverted, as well as from Ni. Ni dominants (particularly those who spend most of their time "bathing" in Ni) often experience this feeling of alienation, because the way they relate to the world - introverted intuition - is simply very rare. Something like 3% of the population are Ni users, it's by far the least common dominant function. For this and other reasons you're likely to often feel misunderstood and alienated. It's almost normal for an INFJ, to be honest.

As for not experiencing the Fe overload... I don't think that proves you're not INFJ. Maybe you are unconsciously trying to protect yourself from people's emotions by using Fe only very selectively, and relying on Ni and Ti instead. I am a bit like that - and coincidentally, I also toyed with the idea of being an INTP for quite some time. @Reason's right, we can't tell as yet, and interacting with you more would shed more light on your type. But you being INFJ sounds totally plausible.

 

[Reason]

@Reason's right

ALWAYS

 

[JennyDaniella]

Hi,

I am a recently confirmed INFJ. For a while I identified as INTP until I read a site that made it clear that my NiFe dynamic was more pronounced.

In the past, I had serious social anxiety issues which I now realize were heightened in certain situations. I live in New York City, which is flooded with people, so as an introvert, I always felt a bit awkward in large gatherings. In college, this got really bad, because I'd be sitting in a lecture hall or classroom and feeling extremely isolated from those around me. I mistook this for NT isolation for a long time, so I was wondering if anyone had any insight on differentiating between the two.

I've read other threads on here and other forums that describe INFJ social anxiety as being 'flooded' with others' emotions, which created an Fe overload. I admit I never had this problem, and don't understand what it means. Basically, I would just observe peoples' behavior around me and think that they carried on conversations, made friends, and behaved far more 'human' than I did. Whereas I felt like an alien and sometimes was too shy to even speak up. Or I'd have this fear that I'd say something to someone next to me, and they wouldn't understand me, because it was like we were speaking two different languages.

Do you think I might be an NT, or just an INFJ who is judging myself too harshly? I did read that INFJs are extremely self-conscious of how they come off, so even when they are being perfectly normal in social situations, they are cognizant of every possible mistake, and fear not being as polite and 'proper' as they should be.

Can anyone relate?

I can relate, especially when it comes to isolation and especially, very bad loneliness. It's not that I do not have any friends, I just cannot relate to them whatsoever. Also it doesn't help that I am private, I built this wall that only very certain people can get through. My friends enjoy small talk and brief conversations--- I don't. I want to talk about the origins of the universe, Carl Sagan's work, aliens, etc. Very profound topics, and I could go on and on.

I never liked big cities due to how overwhelming it can be. Thank god I do not live in the very hectic parts, and when I do visit, I get very bad social anxiety; however as a difference to you, I do get with "flooded" with other people's feelings, and sometimes if I ever interact with someone who is in a terrible mood or if they are sick, I return home with a bad headache or stomach pains. I will say that not every INFJ is truly the same though! Every INFJ brings beautiful, unique, amazing traits to the world

I will also say that over-thinking is a trait that INFJs do carry, so I do think that's whats happening to you.. Lots of ideas and insecurities can rummage through our heads, even worse if you are a perfectionists like many INFJs are lol, including myself!

Don't worry too much about it! Also welcome to the forum!

 

[Wyote]

I'd be sitting in a lecture hall or classroom and feeling extremely isolated from those around me

I built this wall that only very certain people can get through

 

[JennyDaniella]

LMFAO hahahaha

 

[Reverist]

I can relate, though I'd say my sense of social anxiety isn't just about feeling flooded with the emotions of others (though that can happen). For me, it is more about worrying that I won't say or do the right thing and will feel like an outsider or just look awkward.

What did you read about the NiFe dynamic that made you feel confirmed as an INFJ?

Do you think I might be an NT, or just an INFJ who is judging myself too harshly? I did read that INFJs are extremely self-conscious of how they come off, so even when they are being perfectly normal in social situations, they are cognizant of every possible mistake, and fear not being as polite and 'proper' as they should be.

Many types can be self-conscious about how they come off and worry they show up wrong in social situations. Is it possible you are an NT who is judging yourself too harshly about your feeling function?

 

[Vienna]

Basically, I would just observe peoples' behavior around me and think that they carried on conversations, made friends, and behaved far more 'human' than I did. Whereas I felt like an alien and sometimes was too shy to even speak up. Or I'd have this fear that I'd say something to someone next to me, and they wouldn't understand me, because it was like we were speaking two different languages.

Mmm, I can relate to this...and I can tell you, it is not a paranoid idea, people do tell me they don't get what I say...if they don't, I can see that in their expressions...I have to remind myself to talk in the common language...it is tiring and boring but one has to do what one has to do...
This could also be linked to another condition that I have, but I'd say it's basically because of Ni.
I can't tell if it is also your case, that people do not understand you...but I would advise to find out.

Do you think I might be an NT, or just an INFJ who is judging myself too harshly?

Naaa, NTs are nice people, it's not thinking bad of yourself to think you might be one

 

[Aliyen]

I relate, have no idea if you're an NT or an NF though, insufficient information.

You said you think your NiFe dynamic is more "pronounced" could you elaborate please?

I was identifying as an introverted thinker user for a while until I read this page...

https://www.typeinmind.com/nife/

...and realized that I identified much more with those descriptions.

I basically learned that Ti was a more impersonal, mathematical, straightforward function, and it became clear from reading that particular page that I was using Ni first.

It also became clear to me why Fe was auxiliary.... I always figured INFJs were somewhat social and more socially appropriate by default because of Fe, until I read about the particular NiFe combination. The jist of it is that we care about people and are interested in people, but more from a distance. This description matched me more than the INTJ, INTP, or INFP descriptions on that site, because I realized that Ni-doms can definitely have trouble showing that they care even if Fe is their second function. We first and forthmost study people from a scientific and detached point of view before connecting them with Fe, which is probably why I mistakenly identified as an NT for all this time.

Hi @AliyenAMaybe you are unconsciously trying to protect yourself from people's emotions by using Fe only very selectively, and relying on Ni and Ti instead.

Yeah, I figured that too. The page that I linked to talks about that, and I realized that I probably was using Ni-Ti both to protect my Fe (as you suggested) but also because I read there are many different types of INFJs, and some are more Ti-oriented than others.

 

[Ren]

I read there are many different types of INFJs, and some are more Ti-oriented than others.

Oh yes. I can't help it if Ti is so delicious

(I'm glad if my answer was in any way helpful.)

 

[niar]

Fe-Ne loop is essentially by definition social anxiety, which explains to a degree the rep Ntps have for social ineptitude.
It's a cycle of being hyperaware of others and guessing (wrongly!) their judgments. In intps specifically (and ISTP) there's also the fluctuating between ti and fe. Ignoring fe for Ti often manifests as wilfully ignoring fe conventions i.e. calling people out on their shit when it's not polite. Ignoring ti for fe is literally the opposite, ignoring the problem or action that needs to be taken, and instead passively placating.

 

[Ginny]

Fe-Ne loop is essentially by definition social anxiety, which explains to a degree the rep Ntps have for social ineptitude.
It's a cycle of being hyperaware of others and guessing (wrongly!) their judgments. In intps specifically (and ISTP) there's also the fluctuating between ti and fe. Ignoring fe for Ti often manifests as wilfully ignoring fe conventions i.e. calling people out on their shit when it's not polite. Ignoring ti for fe is literally the opposite, ignoring the problem or action that needs to be taken, and instead passively placating.

Interesting premise, though either imprecise or confusingly articulated in differentiating concepts. Do you think there is more than just a tertiary loop for every cognitive stack?

 

[pzl2lxie81mc]

INTPs are pretty different from INFJs, though I agree maybe both seem to share a sense of detachment/alienation.

In terms of the difference between Ne/P and Ni/J, I think for a given situation, if you tend to think of a lot of ideas, meaning ten or twenty, instead of just a few, like two, then you’re more likely an INTP. If you think ten or twenty ideas is not a lot of ideas, then you’re definitely an INTP.

 

[Wyote]

ten or twenty ideas

 

[Aliyen]

INTPs are pretty different from INFJs, though I agree maybe both seem to share a sense of detachment/alienation.

In terms of the difference between Ne/P and Ni/J, I think for a given situation, if you tend to think of a lot of ideas, meaning ten or twenty, instead of just a few, like two, then you’re more likely an INTP. If you think ten or twenty ideas is not a lot of ideas, then you’re definitely an INTP.

From what I understand, that may apply more to Ne-doms than INTPs, because from what I read about INTPs, their Ti forces them to examine one idea for months, or even years, but from different angles (which is where I believe the Ne comes in).

Ni looks at things more hostilically, and instead of thinking about one theory (say, relativity), Ni doms proceed to build an entire world view based on many different facets of whatever field they studied. So in the case of INFJ philosophers, they'll use Ti to examine their ideas on morals, upon which the foundation was initially laid by Ni-Fe. And INTJs will depend on Ni for their insights, and instantly find a practicable application for them with Te, using Fi as their moral support.

 

[pzl2lxie81mc]

for a given situation, if you tend to think of a lot of ideas,

examine one idea...but from different angles

You’re saying what I’m saying, using different words...I don’t mean they’re going to think about a theory and then erratically think about becoming a ballet dancer. I mean for any given situation, INTPs will think of more than just a few possibilities for that situation. An INFJ would have already automatically filtered out most of the possibilities, or not have thought of them at all.

Just because INTPs are not Ne-dominant doesn’t mean their Ne isn’t strong. They just happen to be more logical about it because they’re governed by their Ti. Plus, Ne is what they extravert and should be the most noticeable thing about them.

 

[Elis]

Hi,

I am a recently confirmed INFJ. For a while I identified as INTP until I read a site that made it clear that my NiFe dynamic was more pronounced.

In the past, I had serious social anxiety issues which I now realize were heightened in certain situations. I live in New York City, which is flooded with people, so as an introvert, I always felt a bit awkward in large gatherings. In college, this got really bad, because I'd be sitting in a lecture hall or classroom and feeling extremely isolated from those around me. I mistook this for NT isolation for a long time, so I was wondering if anyone had any insight on differentiating between the two.

I've read other threads on here and other forums that describe INFJ social anxiety as being 'flooded' with others' emotions, which created an Fe overload. I admit I never had this problem, and don't understand what it means. Basically, I would just observe peoples' behavior around me and think that they carried on conversations, made friends, and behaved far more 'human' than I did. Whereas I felt like an alien and sometimes was too shy to even speak up. Or I'd have this fear that I'd say something to someone next to me, and they wouldn't understand me, because it was like we were speaking two different languages.

Do you think I might be an NT, or just an INFJ who is judging myself too harshly? I did read that INFJs are extremely self-conscious of how they come off, so even when they are being perfectly normal in social situations, they are cognizant of every possible mistake, and fear not being as polite and 'proper' as they should be.

Can anyone relate?

Disclaimer: I don't care much for MBTI.

This sounds to a tee as what some of my INTP friends would describe. As one friend puts it he has come to realize that he is stuck in the thinking phase of things for too long. He might be kind of an extreme case, but take sports for instance, instead of playing he would still be stuck in thinking mode and not really engaging in the activity. Now I don't know if this is INTP behavior, or if he is even INTP. To be honest I wouldn't care about MBTI in this regard, but look to how you could overcome your anxiety.