[INFJ] NSFW - ISFJ male trying to understand impact of intimate acts

[kkstevens]

Trigger warning: includes detailed discussion of consensual sexual acts

I'm a 40-something INFJ male. Never been attracted to men, but at a young age discovered my prostate and enjoyed manual stimulation during masturbation. More something I did when I was younger, but I've had the desire to have anal play with a partner for some time. My wife (ENFJ) is kind of conservative and a neatnick so, while I softly tried to get her to play with my backside, she never did and I just let it lie. I think relevant to the rest of the story is that I superficially appear as an alpha out in the world, in a big fish/small pond kind of way: I'm 6'4" and conventionally handsome, given keynotes around the world in my area of specialty, and own a smallish company providing services to many clients. My wife is intelligent and accomplished but she prefers to run the house and family, even though she is one of the top people in her field, too. She is also a Controller and Stickler from a PQ Saboteurs perspective, for those who know what that means; I'm a Restless Stickler.

Maybe two weeks ago we had a huge argument. One of the things I brought forward was my unhappiness with her not engaging in anal play. She, fairly, was surprised by that complaint: I had been indirect or subtle in trying to push her toward my bottom out of fear of rejection or humiliation. But, OK, coming out of that argument one of the things she said was she wanted to give that a try. Great!

Fast forward to today. It has completely changed our relationship. She is enjoying sex more - which is fabulous! - but it is impacting my psychology and brain chemistry in ways I don't understand. Sex, for decades now, has been highly enjoyable but not particularly bonding. My wife just isn't that into sex; my previous long-term girlfriend's parts didn't fit with mine leading to injuries and anxiety...I don't remember sex being something that made me feel truly bonded and intoxicated with a partner other than my first couple of years of sex as a teenager/early 20s. But now, with my wife, everything is different. I'm attracted to her so much more. I'm more affectionate, trying to make more time with her, and just closer in every way. And unlike when I was young, when those sort of feelings for my partner were accompanied by horniness - so, yes, I was besotted with her but I also wanted to be bonking 24/7 - now I'm just sort of blissful and totally into my wife without wanting more sex or orgasms. I feel drunk or high or something but I've never felt this way before in my life. We've been married for 13 years, so this is not a new relationship.

I don't think these feelings have to do with the prostate stimulation. They have to do with some combination of her mounting me and "doing" me like a man in every way, and/or how incredibly turned on and enthusiastic she is in doing so. Seeing her, she looks so beautiful and sexy and just sort of dominating me and taking me and doing things to me like a man would typically be expected to do to a woman. I am a man; I'm happy being a man; I'm not fantasizing about either of us being regendered. But I feel like I've found my sexual happiness in a way I never have before, and have these unbelievable feelings toward and about her that I can't even explain much less understand.

I guess I just want to try and understand it better. What we're doing is so "weird" from a cis perspective, so I don't feel like I can really talk about it even with my few incredibly close and trusted friends. I want to understand why my being the receiver both feels so completely like my home and happy space - I never really liked pitching but I was the man so...yeah - and leaves me thinking I really never want to top again! This has revolutionized the way I feel about my wife, and am soso much happier about my life.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

 

[mintoots]

Hi @kkstevens

I don't think you should feel conflicted about being happy. In my humble POV, you sound like you're in a wonderful place and that your partner feels the same. At that, I believe convention ceases to matter. What's more important is that your marriage is working, which is surely something a lot of people would like to be on.

Are you, however, nursing other fears about it?

 

[kkstevens]

Hi @kkstevens

I don't think you should feel conflicted about being happy. In my humble POV, you sound like you're in a wonderful place and that your partner feels the same. At that, I believe convention ceases to matter. What's more important is that your marriage is working, which is surely something a lot of people would like to be on.

Are you, however, nursing other fears about it?

Thanks for responding.

Not fears, surely. But I understand myself and the world incredibly well. And this doesn't make sense to me. Based on past studies of gender, both genetic and socially constructed, the closest thing that my feelings and the impacts on me seem to be like is how the sex act with men commonly leads women, through some mashup of nature/nurture, to super bond with male lovers. But I don't have the same psychoneuroendocinology of a female; the brain chemistry the drives that sort of response, to the best of my knowledge, isn't even possible in me as a man. If we assume that is largely a genetic response, which I do believe based on my research, then this must be something different. So, what is it?

Separately, beyond understanding what is happening with me, I guess I wonder if this is...predictable, common, somehow related to INFJ male even if not (obviously) universal to that gender-type experience. And/or to what degree my being INFJ may have impacted all of this. That's just a different flavour of understanding tho, I suppose.

 

[mintoots]

So, what is it?

What if it's simply preference? Are you considering whether there's a freudian thing that might explain it?

Separately, beyond understanding what is happening with me, I guess I wonder if this is...predictable, common, somehow related to INFJ male even if not (obviously) universal to that gender-type experience. And/or to what degree my being INFJ may have impacted all of this. That's just a different flavour of understanding tho, I suppose.

I see. It is somewhat curious as a phenomenon but I may not be one equipped to help you with the quest. I have my misgivings on it having to involve mbti though.

 

[kkstevens]

What if it's simply preference? Are you considering whether there's a freudian thing that might explain it?

Enjoying the act certainly may be preference. Being taken to some transcendent place that has significantly shifted my global mood and disposition while transforming my relationship to my life is that part I'm gaping at.

I'm not trained on Freud beyond sort of a uni 101 level so not qualified to speak to that. But it could be?

I see. It is somewhat curious as a phenomenon but I may not be one equipped to help you with the quest. I have my misgivings on it having to involve mbti though.

Yeah, I don't know either! I had to pick where to start: is all of this ultimately about the kink or is it about me? If it's about me, where can I find people like me in the right ways to help me get some insight? My MBTI was my first stab at it, because I'm trained in and quite knowledgeable about both it specifically and Jungian theory in general.

 

[mintoots]

Being taken to some transcendent place that has significantly shifted my global mood and disposition while transforming my relationship to my life is that part I'm gaping at.

Hmmm... what if it's about relief for having accessed a non-conventional aspect of the self, and yet still be accepted and even cherished for it? What if it's fundamentally about acceptance?

My MBTI was my first stab at it, because I'm trained in and quite knowledgeable about both it specifically and Jungian theory in general.

Interesting. So relative to MBTI, what are your initial takes on it?

 

[kkstevens]

Hmmm... what if it's about relief for having accessed a non-conventional aspect of the self, and yet still be accepted and even cherished for it? What if it's fundamentally about acceptance?

That's a really interesting take. At a minimum, that's in the mix. Because, yes, this is something I wasn't willing to even ask for directly, or at least not directly more than once, out of fear of embarrassment. Yes, acceptance is surely part of it. Thank you.

Interesting. So relative to MBTI, what are your initial takes on it?

Well, my auxiliary extraverted feeling is certainly on display. I am expressing my feelings to and about my wife. My inferior extraverted sensing may also be at work, here. This part of me is particularly underdeveloped in juxtaposition to all of the development work I have done on both my other three aspects, as well as negating my Big 5 Neuroticism issues. So discovering something like this that is explicitly sensorial and in the physical world would ostensibly act like a deep and wonderful massage on a misshapen and underdeveloped part of myself. In terms of type theory that's where I'm drawn to start.

The typical comportment of NF types generally, in my culture, align with social expectations of gendered females. Too, male INFJs are the least common gender-type combo of all 32 possibilities (assuming only traditional, binary genders). My Spidey sense felt like there might be answers in these type dynamics that could surface in a community like this, where many of the participants share my type and, even beyond the typical curios INFJ, may be more in tune and in touch with complicated dynamics of self and personality..

 

[April]

Lots of men enjoy being submissive in the bedroom even if not in life, I don't think it says anything about you other than that being a preference for you. You've found your happy place and that will definitely feel like home to you because it's where you feel the most loved and gratified.

Have you explored the topic of Dom/sub relationships? It doesn't mean what a lot of people think it does, but finding your "place" in it can be very very satisfying

Good luck!

 

[kkstevens]

Lots of men enjoy being submissive in the bedroom even if not in life, I don't think it says anything about you other than that being a preference for you. You've found your happy place and that will definitely feel like home to you because it's where you feel the most loved and gratified.

That may be the net out. I wonder if this is more common in INFJ males than other types? For example, ~70% of LGBTQ+ people type as N despite N's being ~30% of the overall population (source: The Myers-Briggs Company). I wonder if kinks, especially those that flip expected gender roles, are thus more generally pervasive?

Have you explored the topic of Dom/sub relationships? It doesn't mean what a lot of people think it does, but finding your "place" in it can be very very satisfying

I haven't. I dislike discomfort, much less pain, so the "branding" of that community has always been a huge turnoff for me. I do know there is more to it than pain and discomfort though, maybe I need to dig in a bit to learn.

Good luck!

Thank you!

 

[slant]

Trigger warning: includes detailed discussion of consensual sexual acts

I'm a 40-something INFJ male. Never been attracted to men, but at a young age discovered my prostate and enjoyed manual stimulation during masturbation. More something I did when I was younger, but I've had the desire to have anal play with a partner for some time. My wife (ENFJ) is kind of conservative and a neatnick so, while I softly tried to get her to play with my backside, she never did and I just let it lie. I think relevant to the rest of the story is that I superficially appear as an alpha out in the world, in a big fish/small pond kind of way: I'm 6'4" and conventionally handsome, given keynotes around the world in my area of specialty, and own a smallish company providing services to many clients. My wife is intelligent and accomplished but she prefers to run the house and family, even though she is one of the top people in her field, too. She is also a Controller and Stickler from a PQ Saboteurs perspective, for those who know what that means; I'm a Restless Stickler.

Maybe two weeks ago we had a huge argument. One of the things I brought forward was my unhappiness with her not engaging in anal play. She, fairly, was surprised by that complaint: I had been indirect or subtle in trying to push her toward my bottom out of fear of rejection or humiliation. But, OK, coming out of that argument one of the things she said was she wanted to give that a try. Great!

Fast forward to today. It has completely changed our relationship. She is enjoying sex more - which is fabulous! - but it is impacting my psychology and brain chemistry in ways I don't understand. Sex, for decades now, has been highly enjoyable but not particularly bonding. My wife just isn't that into sex; my previous long-term girlfriend's parts didn't fit with mine leading to injuries and anxiety...I don't remember sex being something that made me feel truly bonded and intoxicated with a partner other than my first couple of years of sex as a teenager/early 20s. But now, with my wife, everything is different. I'm attracted to her so much more. I'm more affectionate, trying to make more time with her, and just closer in every way. And unlike when I was young, when those sort of feelings for my partner were accompanied by horniness - so, yes, I was besotted with her but I also wanted to be bonking 24/7 - now I'm just sort of blissful and totally into my wife without wanting more sex or orgasms. I feel drunk or high or something but I've never felt this way before in my life. We've been married for 13 years, so this is not a new relationship.

I don't think these feelings have to do with the prostate stimulation. They have to do with some combination of her mounting me and "doing" me like a man in every way, and/or how incredibly turned on and enthusiastic she is in doing so. Seeing her, she looks so beautiful and sexy and just sort of dominating me and taking me and doing things to me like a man would typically be expected to do to a woman. I am a man; I'm happy being a man; I'm not fantasizing about either of us being regendered. But I feel like I've found my sexual happiness in a way I never have before, and have these unbelievable feelings toward and about her that I can't even explain much less understand.

I guess I just want to try and understand it better. What we're doing is so "weird" from a cis perspective, so I don't feel like I can really talk about it even with my few incredibly close and trusted friends. I want to understand why my being the receiver both feels so completely like my home and happy space - I never really liked pitching but I was the man so...yeah - and leaves me thinking I really never want to top again! This has revolutionized the way I feel about my wife, and am soso much happier about my life.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

What if you reframed it as not having anything to do with gender but being more about power dynamics?

To me it sounds like you are getting turned on by being dominated by your wife. I don't think there is anything particularly unusual about that. In most relationships there is a more dominant person sexually and a less dominant person.

I think you're reading too much into it because it's anal play and you're associating that with homosexuality but it's really not specific to homosexuality. We have different nerves in that region and it can actually produce a different/stronger orgasm in both men and women.

So I'm not sure if you really need to understand it as much as try not to put so much shame into it. You mention how other people might think about it but you don't really know the details of your friend's sex lives, do you? Even if it's not common, that's ok. There's no reason for people to be weirded out by it. You guys are having fun.

 

[aeon]

What we're doing is so "weird" from a cis perspective

If you say so. I mean, that’s a judgment you are placing on the behavior. That’s not an inherent quality of the activity itself. And you have no need to judge the behavior, or yourself, in that way, if you do not wish to, but nor is it wrong for you to do so.

Based on past studies of gender, both genetic and socially constructed, the closest thing that my feelings and the impacts on me seem to be like is how the sex act with men commonly leads women, through some mashup of nature/nurture, to super bond with male lovers. But I don't have the same psychoneuroendocinology of a female; the brain chemistry the drives that sort of response, to the best of my knowledge, isn't even possible in me as a man.

Your studies are well out of date in this regard. Men and women are different in this way, that is true, but they are far more alike than they are different, and the ways they are different are of little significance given your context.

And just a note, in the colloquial parlance regarding relationships, gender has no genetic component.

Regarding understanding your experience...what is there to understand? You are happy, in particular, sexually, more than ever before. It could be that you are simply discovering who you are, what you need, and what you like, and you are loved for those things. The happiness that results from that experience seems strange if you haven’t had that before, but there’s nothing complex about it, nor is there anything to understand. It is to be enjoyed, simple as that.

I bet you’re going to give some thought about the true worth of being forthright and transparent about advocating for yourself.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[Infjente]

I guess I just want to try and understand it better.

I get that. To me, sex is a peephole into my own unconsciousness. Very hard to resist taking a look when the opportunity presents itself.

I once talked to a guy that was into pegging. He was heterosexual and relatively masculine. His analysis was that his dad's lacking involvement in raising him, left him with a longing for fatherly love (clear, direct, firm and physical) that he later sexualized. I think NFs are highly relational people and it's logical that they sexualize parts of what occupies them the most.

 

[David54]

I think you are overthinking this. Enjoy what you enjoy. Hopefully your partner does too...

 

[acd]

You like what you like and she likes it too. So just enjoy it especially since it brings you closer together.

 

[Asa]

Congratulations, @kkstevens.

Enjoy it. This is a great time in your marriage to find a closer bond and have more interesting sex. Don't feel conflicted. Just enjoy this without overthinking it. It doesn't mean anything other than you're bonding, you're being attentive and open-minded partners, and you found something you enjoy.

I'm happy this is happening for you. I believe that, in a marriage or long-term relationship, you have to be open to the kind of sex your partner wants. It's cruel to make people live their whole lives with unfulfilled desires.

Also, read your relationships with your friends and their comfort levels before you bring this topic up with them.

 

[Wyote]

PQ Saboteurs

Sort of off topic but I thought this was a neat test
I got Stickler/Pleaser

 

[aeon]

I believe that, in a marriage or long-term relationship, you have to be open to the kind of sex your partner wants. It's cruel to make people live their whole lives with unfulfilled desires.

Much Respect,
Ian

 

[kkstevens]

Sort of off topic but I thought this was a neat test
I got Stickler/Pleaser

Pleaser is my #3. It seems a natural for INFJ.

 

[Wyote]

Pleaser is my #3. It seems a natural for INFJ.

Absolutely. I was surprised it was not my #1 but also I've been aware that I overdo it for a very long time so I've adjusted.

 

[Pin]

Sort of off topic but I thought this was a neat test
I got Stickler/Pleaser

Me....

1) Hyper-rational
2) Stickler
3) Restless
4) Overachiever