Ni values

[la boheme]

I am trying to assign values to each of the cognitive functions. For example, I would say Ti value is truth because that is the aim of its operations, to discover the truth of an idea or proposition. Te is efficiency, Si comfort and security, Se sensory experience, Fi authenticity, Fe harmony, and Ne freedom and possibilities. In this vein, what is Ni value to you?

 

[Radiantshadow]

Order/worldbuilding

 

[ThomasJ79]

Understanding.

 

[BrokenDaniel]

Clarity.

 

[sassafras]

Understanding.

This.

 

[la boheme]

Understanding.

I might have said understanding is a Ti value. What, if any, difference is there between understanding and truth? And what would you say Ti value is?

 

[la boheme]

Order/worldbuilding

Can you elaborate on this?

 

[la boheme]

Clarity.

Ni is a subconscious process and is often described as looking through a fog or haze, so it's somewhat surprising to hear you describe it this way. How do you reconcile these two ideas? Also, clarity is something Ti also strives to attain. What would you say Ti value is?

 

[BrokenDaniel]

Ni is a subconscious process and is often described as looking through a fog or haze, so it's somewhat surprising to hear you describe it this way. How do you reconcile these two ideas? Also, clarity is something Ti also strives to attain. What would you say Ti value is?

I was thinking about the bolded part actually. Thing is, that the fog needs to go away, to see it clearly, precision is very important, i think a lot of Ni users would say the same. Ti doesn't seem to be much concerned with clarity on these terms, although i see that there may be a confusion.

 

[sassafras]

I might have said understanding is a Ti value. What, if any, difference is there between understanding and truth? And what would you say Ti value is?

Ti is actually preoccupied with the conscious process of understanding, of individuating the parts that make up the whole. For Ti, the devil is in the details; you miss something and the whole structure is threatened. Ni already understands. It sees the whole as the holistic sum of its parts.

 

[la boheme]

Ti is actually preoccupied with the conscious process of understanding, of individuating the parts that make up the whole. For Ti, the devil is in the details; you miss something and the whole structure is threatened. Ni already understands. It sees the whole as the holistic sum of its parts.

Maybe this is a difference between INTPs and INFJs, but in the former Ti analyses the parts in order to reassemble them into a comprehensive and coherent understanding of the whole--ie, it builds theories to comprehensively explain observed facts. So to me, truth is what I understand and understanding is the process of knowing the truth.

 

[la boheme]

Ti is actually preoccupied with the conscious process of understanding, of individuating the parts that make up the whole. For Ti, the devil is in the details; you miss something and the whole structure is threatened. Ni already understands. It sees the whole as the holistic sum of its parts.

What happens to your Ni understanding when your Ti spots an inconsistency? Do you revise your Ni understanding or do you question your Ti analysis?

 

[la boheme]

I was thinking about the bolded part actually. Thing is, that the fog needs to go away, to see it clearly, precision is very important, i think a lot of Ni users would say the same. Ti doesn't seem to be much concerned with clarity on these terms, although i see that there may be a confusion.

Ti is not usually described as peering through a fog so that idea of a veil being lifted is not the most apt. However, Ti does have its own experience of not knowing that I would describe as a mix of confusion, annoyance, and compulsion. This is not an image like a fog, but a feeling or sense of discomfort. Ti is like Ni, though, in that it also strives for clarity, but for Ti clarity means understanding the underlying principles behind the facts and expressing these ideas precisely and concisely--ie, clarity of thought and expression.

 

[sassafras]

What happens to your Ni understanding when your Ti spots an inconsistency? Do you revise your Ni understanding or do you question your Ti analysis?

Ti and Ni don't contend head to head like that. Ni isnt a conscious process, so being introverted and perceiving it leans on the nearest extroverted conscious judging function to express and apply its findings. If Ti is in the stack with Ni, the function it would in fact be dealing with in such a scenario is Fe.

In which case, you revise or question analysis depending on the goals of Fe which is higher up in the stack.

 

[la boheme]

Ti and Ni don't contend head to head like that. Ni isnt a conscious process, so being introverted and perceiving it leans on the nearest extroverted conscious judging function to express and apply its findings. If Ti is in the stack with Ni, the function it would in fact be dealing with in such a scenario is Fe.

In which case, you revise or question analysis depending on the goals of Fe which is higher up in the stack.

I don't understand the bolded part since, to me, the criteria for judging Ti is impartial logic or facts, neither of which depends on goals--ie, they depend on objective and not subjective criteria. Can you give an example of how Fe would shape Ti using its goals? And how would Fe work with the Ti inconsistency to change the Ni conclusion? Or would it?

 

[sassafras]

I don't understand the bolded part since to me the criteria for judging Ti is impartial logic or facts, neither of which depends on goals--ie, they depend on objective and not subjective criteria. Can you give an example of how Fe would shape Ti using its goals? And when and how might the Ti inconsistency challenge your Ni conclusion?

I was thinking of function order in terms of the INFJ and ENFJ wherein Ti plays a supportive role in either the tertiary or inferior slot in an ENFJ or INFJ. It is therefore, very much dependent on Fe's findings more than say, Fe is dependent on Ti's findings. It does not feature as a preferred decision making model the way it would if Ti were dominant or auxiliary, such as ESTP or ISTP.

Again, Ti and Ni do not interact. Ti depends on Fe for its findings and Se for its expressions and Ni depends on Se for its findings and Fe for its expressions in INFJ, ENFJ, ESTP and ISTP. Function order dictates how each function is expressed and what goals a type has based on its leading function.

 

[Gaze]

My impression of Ni is that it's like having an epiphany. It just comes to you, and then you are aware. But you don't necessarily know how you got there or how you came to that truth or awareness. This is why it's difficult for those who have it to explain what it is. And if it's something that is naturally occurring and not derived from intentional mental or cognitive effort, it's not really something you can reason through via conscious effort. So, it's probably what should be described as true "intuition."

 

[sassafras]

My impression of Ni is that it's like having an epiphany. It just comes to you, and then you are aware. But you don't necessarily know how you got there or how you came to that truth or awareness. This is why it's difficult for those who have it to explain what it is. And if it's something that is naturally occurring and not derived from intentional mental or cognitive effort, it's not really something you can reason through via conscious effort. So, it's probably what should be described as true "intuition."

You hit the nail on the head about how Ni works. But what is the value of intuition? What is its goal? its not needing to break things down further to understand because it has already arrived.

 

[la boheme]

You hit the nail on the head about how Ni works. But what is the value of intuition? What is its goal? its not needing to break things down further to understand because it has already arrived.

But how do you know if you've arrived at your destination or reached a dead end? How do you know if your insight is right?

 

[SealHammer]

But how do you know if you've arrived at your destination or reached a dead end? How do you know if your insight is right?

Inferior functions, baby.

Ni doms are not pure Ni users. If they were, they'd essentially be vegetables. Ni gleans something, and the other functions (specifically Fe and Se in INFJs dealing with the external world) throw that something back into the mix to see if it works.