[INFJ] Nemesis Level Enemies

[invisible]

I'm curious about people's thoughts on the ways in which INFJs develop enmities with specific other individuals. Maybe the kind of person who you would want to "doorslam", and would be inclined to refuse speaking terms with. Particularly, I am wondering about whether anyone else thinks we may have a sort of need or compulsion to direct righteous anger at a target. Whether this is an impulse that is a sort of theme in our personalities that helps us to construct an understanding of who we are - or maybe that does not really help us exactly, but in any case just naturally exists as part of who we are. I'm also interested in disagreement with whether this is any sort of impulse that involuntarily rises from within; perhaps it is just a feature of the more difficult personalities among us.

 

[PintoBean]

Hmmm, good question. I can really only speak for myself, but I honestly don't really know the cause of enmity in my life. There have been multiple people from whom I have taken all kinds of bad treatment, then it is just one more thing, a small thing, the same thing that has been a dynamic of that person's behavior, and I am suddenly done with them. I just never speak to them again and that is it. It's not really a door slamming type thing, but more of a definitive shutting. I was recently looking back at the trail of closed doors I have created. I felt some regret in some cases, but overall not much even though I remember the positive traits of the people I have shut out of my life. I don't know why I am this way. I suppose I cannot stand to be disappointed by people after a certain point.

 

[invisible]

Hmmm, good question. I can really only speak for myself, but I honestly don't really know the cause of enmity in my life. There have been multiple people from whom I have taken all kinds of bad treatment, then it is just one more thing, a small thing, the same thing that has been a dynamic of that person's behavior, and I am suddenly done with them. I just never speak to them again and that is it. It's not really a door slamming type thing, but more of a definitive shutting. I was recently looking back at the trail of closed doors I have created. I felt some regret in some cases, but overall not much even though I remember the positive traits of the people I have shut out of my life. I don't know why I am this way. I suppose I cannot stand to be disappointed by people after a certain point.

Me too, but also, whether in conjunction or in fact sometimes quite separately, I have felt HATRED, and a need to define myself as representing something that is diametrically opposed to what that person represents to me.

 

[Scientia]

I'm curious about people's thoughts on the ways in which INFJs develop enmities...the kind of person who you would want to "doorslam", and would be inclined to refuse speaking ... we may have a sort of need or compulsion to direct righteous anger at a target. Whether this is an impulse that is a sort of theme in our personalities that helps us to construct an understanding of who we are -

This is a part of my personality that I have rarely seen. It is always a person I trusted and loved who somehow abused that love and trust over years, so I know what you mean by righteous anger. I try everything I can to repair the relationship but if they shut me down, I start to "build my case", so to speak. As [MENTION=13730]PintoBean[/MENTION] said, it is almost always a small thing that is the final straw and I close my heart.

As far as this being a theme, this might be true in that we INFJs have strongly held values and extraordinary talent for reading others and will go above and beyond to do things for those we love. If someone in our inner circle abuses that, it might take a while but we eventually stand up and kick them out to preserve our hearts. It is an odd combination of deeply loving others while maintaining our own self worth and preserving our inner selves.

 

[invisible]

Don't get me wrong, I definitely cultivate good, sound, meaningful reasons for why I detest most of my special objects of defection, such as that they have lied to me in some crucial circumstance for no apparent reason, or that they wantonly physically assault others. I am not exactly sheltered; I have been in close contact with some deeply ugly people in my life - and usually, I end up wanting these people as far away from me as possible.

But sometimes my reasons have seemed not quite good enough - for example, maybe as you touched on Pinto, but maybe not quite the same thing, inspiring a lingering sense of regret. I wonder whether I have sometimes loathed specific others for the simple purpose of giving expression to my sense of righteousness, like some sort of insatiable appetite for stomping on perceived evils, even to the point that my chosen evils are objectively not always very genuinely evil. I have wondered whether it sustains or supplements me emotionally to direct any idle "righteousness" that is harboured within me towards whatever sufficiently naughty object that happens to have wandered into my field of perception.

 

[invisible]

What I mean is - it's not really very mature to have a "nemesis", right? Someone to direct your rage at over the disappointments of the universe? Because people are usually not all "evil", all the way through - and those who are probably are more likely to actively avoid detection and slip under the radar in many cases. But still, there are those who arouse our righteous wrath. Is the wrath truly deserved in all cases, or is it sometimes an impulse of temperament?

I'm completely OK if this is just a quirk of my personality... just wondering whether it is something that anyone else has experienced or thought about.

 

[Scientia]

What I mean is - it's not really very mature to have a "nemesis", right? Someone to direct your rage at over the disappointments of the universe?

I have a really good frenemy I call Nemesis. She calls me Nemesis. We remember each other's birthdays and get together a few times a year. It's kind of awesome.

As for a true nemesis, nope. I don't see the world as black and white, or people as one thing or the other. I think even serial killers can have gentle aspects of their personae. That doesn't mean I want to be around serial killers but I understand what you mean. It is easier to blame someone who has treated you badly for all of the ills in your life. Still, I think if you can try to understand why they acted the way they did, it might help free you from having a nemesis because you might understand their motivations. The benefit in expanding your view of this nemesis is that it gives you more power.

 

[MrSquared]

No true nemesis for me. But I do find myself specifically blaming other individuals for their negative impact on a certain situation (never in public mind you).

 

[Ghoulia Yelps]

I have a nemesis, who is one of the people I have described on the forum in other threads. I think we are too similar to really hate one another, or maybe this is the reason why we do? I don't know, either way he is confusing and contradictory. He tried his best to make me into his enemy, but I have always tried to take the moral high ground and not stoop to his level. Problem is, he thinks he is doing exactly the same thing. I guess we could be described as frenemies.
We kind of door slammed each other, but I am the one more willing to build bridges. He suffers from an undefined mental illness and ME, so I kind of have pity for him. He doesn't really have the ability to know wrong from right and lives in a little bubble of self pity. There is a great guy in there some where, but he has to sort his shit out. I think he is dissapointed with people, especially women because he has it in his head that he deserves to have a supermodel for a girlfriend, and doesn't think anyone is up to his standards. He likes to put the blame on me for everything that's gone wrong in his life, he loves to scapegoat instead of looking at what he has done wrong, because he is above reproach and uses his illness as an excuse.

 

[0utofth3b0x]

I've never doubted my animosity toward someone because I'm confident that people receive from me exactly what they have earned. My frustrations with the evil floating around in the universe are, I believe justifiably, directed at more complex systems instead of individuals. I'm angry about ruthless human greed, for instance. I'm angry about the disintegration of moral value throughout society. Social injustice and political corruption, economic collapse as a result of stupid spending and horrible planning, these things that burn inside my soul have no direct outlet in reality. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but the way I'm reading you, these are the things you are dumping on individuals who maybe represent or embody such universal evils. I don't feel a need to do that, I'm more driven to take responsibility for the state of the world and I take action against the systems themselves. So maybe, in a way, I actually do feel a very similar need to direct some righteous anger at a target. Maybe the function is the same, but I can't relate to the concept of putting that sort of target on another human being.

 

[the]

Well Satya hasn't been here for a while so...

 

[invisible]

I've never doubted my animosity toward someone because I'm confident that people receive from me exactly what they have earned. My frustrations with the evil floating around in the universe are, I believe justifiably, directed at more complex systems instead of individuals. I'm angry about ruthless human greed, for instance. I'm angry about the disintegration of moral value throughout society. Social injustice and political corruption, economic collapse as a result of stupid spending and horrible planning, these things that burn inside my soul have no direct outlet in reality. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but the way I'm reading you, these are the things you are dumping on individuals who maybe represent or embody such universal evils. I don't feel a need to do that, I'm more driven to take responsibility for the state of the world and I take action against the systems themselves. So maybe, in a way, I actually do feel a very similar need to direct some righteous anger at a target. Maybe the function is the same, but I can't relate to the concept of putting that sort of target on another human being.

Surely people have to be responsible for their actions at some point? Life is not all just forces puppeteering us around, we have our own thoughts too.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Well Satya hasn't been here for a while so...

There's some truth in this.


I had a work nemesis a few years ago, who kind of had his own ideas about what our priorities should be. He was constantly undermining anyone who didn't share his priorities, which, if followed, would have required significant professional and ethical compromise. He was basically a politician in a completely non-political job, which caused constant tension and compromise. He often made it sound like I was completely at odds with the organisation and that I should be replaced. Eventually, he was removed and a number of idiots who had sided with him were forced to resign/retire and I was promoted. I wish I could say that the situation had been resolved, but his short stay had completely soured things for everyone including myself - I basically started working at making myself redundant from that time forward.

The most absurd situation arose a little over a year ago, where he tried to pretend that we had been good collaborators and friends - and that I would give my approval for his promotion in a small organisation in the U.S., where he ended up moving. He actually offered to fly me out there and give me the grand-tour and have me at dinner with some important guests. I wish I had had my wits about me just to laugh and hang up, instead I gave a polite excuse and suggested that perhaps it might work out some other time.

 

[0utofth3b0x]

Surely people have to be responsible for their actions at some point? Life is not all just forces puppeteering us around, we have our own thoughts too.

I absolutely agree with you here, which is why I've never questioned the loathing I have felt for individuals. Let me try to clarify my meaning. I think your original point was that you wonder if other INFJ typed people feel this need to target a nemesis out of a "compulsion to direct righteous anger". I was saying that, while I have experienced intense hatred for individuals for various reasons, I simply tend to focus on institutions when I seek a target for my "righteous" anger. I do tend to think I'm right when it comes to moral ideals, how people should behave, and what is important in life; but I've always been aware that most other people do not share my views. I've always known that I was quite different from the people around me and never saw a benefit in actively despising any one person because it seems that way of thinking would be toxic to me and change nothing about my surroundings. Even as a child I was more interested in identifying a problem and working against the system or institution that represented it. For example, I had a high-school principle who didn't believe females should participate in wrestling or football and she was backed by the board of Ed. I hated that principle, but I petitioned against the board of education to get a powder puff league authorized in my school district instead of just seething about my feelings toward a woman.