It could be said that death itself is selfish because it eventually deprives all of us of life and of each other.
Morbid curiosity gone too far
- Thread starter Gaze
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It could be said that death itself is selfish because it eventually deprives all of us of life and of each other.
LOL. You don't find that a weird thing to say? Selfish = concerned in self benefiting. I don't think that people belong to each other, or "humanity". I think their lives are their own.
It could be said that that phrase itself is selfish...
+10 History repeats itself endlessly, people tend to ignore this or aren't even aware of it to begin with.
Here's a relevant song:
[video=youtube;kzgO0cI48Kk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzgO0cI48Kk[/video]
Yes, desensitization has been occurring through this medium for millennium.
One tribe falls, another rises accordingly. Power trips, humans love them.
In this "modern" age, it is morally reprehensible to enjoy killing and misfortune; however,
we would not be where we are, biologically, without it. This, I think,
is one of the greatest tragedies ever written. Would that it were not so.
I disagree with your definition of selfishness. Selfishness is excessive and disregards the welfare of others. It is self-benefit taken to extremes.
I agree that people do not belong to each other like property but we need each other as much as we do food or water, else we become depressed and eventually die of loneliness. In one sense our lives are our own but because we must interact and cooperate our lives are shared and in this way we form spiritual bonds. Bonds such as the parent with a child, the bond between friends and the bond between spouses come to mind. Even with strangers we can recognize this similarity between them and ourselves and as such can show respect for what we have in common. I don't expect we will necessarily be moved to mourning in the same way that loved ones would but that doesn't prevent us from showing respect for the process because we know that one day will walk that same path.
Then how does death itself fall under "selfishness"? It's just a process of nature.
Death itself is not literally selfish but many people experience its effects in the same way they would selfishness because they've been deprived of someone they love or admire. Death may be a process of nature but it stirs emotions in us in the same way that a beautiful sunrise does.
[MENTION=4498]willow[/MENTION] my point is that, when you say this
You must acknlowedge that aside from being kind and respectful to their family members, and to treasuring and respecting their memory the way that the dead person would have liked, the rest of what you said here have no direct relation to the dead person. These are things that benefit the living. You value these things because you benefit from them. You must realize this. Remembering these things that benefit you is not out of respect to them. To say so would be just you stroking your own value system because it sounds good to be nice about anything that is vaguely connected to the dead person, but it will not compliment their memory or bring them back. Like you said, their real essence is lost, and nothing you do to honor their former livingness can begin to encompass their worth not just as a part of humanity and basic human abilities, but for what made them special as a person.
You must acknlowedge that aside from being kind and respectful to their family members, and to treasuring and respecting their memory the way that the dead person would have liked, the rest of what you said here have no direct relation to the dead person. These are things that benefit the living. You value these things because you benefit from them. You must realize this. Remembering these things that benefit you is not out of respect to them. To say so would be just you stroking your own value system because it sounds good to be nice about anything that is vaguely connected to the dead person, but it will not compliment their memory or bring them back. Like you said, their real essence is lost, and nothing you do to honor their former livingness can begin to encompass their worth not just as a part of humanity and basic human abilities, but for what made them special as a person.
I agree that there is nothing that could be done that could encompass the worth of a life that is the very reason nothing should be done to diminish what the loss represents. To respect is to esteem. It is life itself that I esteem and because I value life I can recognize that something of worth is lost and I can show respect for that. We can show respect to a person who has lost a home in a fire by recognizing what that home meant to a person. Are we to show less respect for the loss of a life which is imo, infinitely, more precious? That to me would be the height of selfishness.
It is also ridiculous to suggest that showing respect is an attempt to restore life. It is a symbolic act. Life is filled with them. This one is valuable to me and many others because it reminds us of the preciousness of human life. If it means nothing to you then wouldn't it be more appropriate to not even acknowledge the loss of life. To acknowledge it but in a disrespectful manner to me symbolizes the diminishing of the importance of life.
It seems to me that what you reject is symbolism and if that is the case then you will have to reject all of human expression.
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It's your loss though. That's my point. You're just lamenting your loss. I just see it as no more symbolic than feeling sorry for yourself, the way you are wording it.
No. I'm not lamenting my personal loss when a stranger dies. I'm recognizing the loss of human life as a general tragedy. You don't feel that but that doesn't mean my feelings on the matter are not real. I think the loss of human life is tragic and I appreciate when it is recognized respectfully. You don't. You cannot possibly know whether I feel sorry for myself or not. You are projecting your own feelings on to me.
The point that has been all ready made in this thread is that our philosophies about life affect such matters. I don't subscribe to the idea that people are just biological machines and I don't subscribe to the idea that strangers do not matter. Therefore, it affects how I view death and the rituals surrounding death. Your own philosophy affects your views on the matter. That's the point which I think Rite all ready made.
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That is interesting. You are right, I would have been projecting, but that was just the way that I interpreted the wording, until you said this ^.
" I'm recognizing the loss of human life as a general tragedy." --> i don't really see loss of human life as tragic/not tragic in itself, except in regard to the families left behind who have to suffer. I only see it as unfortunate if the people died wrongly, but more because of the injustice of something ending a human life when it should not have happened. Although I cannot be empathic about viewing human death as a tragedy for the world it I can certainly accept that many others do.
edit: just because i do not view death in itself as tragic, does not mean i do not view life as precious while it is still going on. i just see them as separate things kind of.
In my opinion, human death is also a tragedy for the person. It is the end of their ability to self-express and to enjoy.
I accept that your views are different.
I do agree that a campaign to end media sensationalism is pointless. People are free to believe anything they wish. However, once you've decided you believe in an idea then it makes sense to follow it up with appropriate action or else you are a hypocrite. If I think the media markets junk then why would I purchase that junk while complaining. (That statement is directed generally and not specifically to the OP.) It makes better sense not to purchase the junk in the first place. If it causes the media to change is not important. What is important is to live in harmony with ones beliefs.
People have been complaining about the media's attitude towards celebrity deaths since Princess Diana passed, if not before, yet they still buy the magazines and watch the programmes. It doesn't make sense. Personally, I think television in particular is junk so I don't pay for it. Am I in a campaign against media? Nope. I've simply reclaimed my time and money for things I consider more worthy.
Yes it is sad in my opinion that "life and death" have been reduced to a "spectacle." The point is that I don't take part in it and that's good enough for me.
