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Kony 2012

You've made another really interesting thread that has sparked a good discussion and has got people thinking about things beyond the daily grind

The system wants us bogged down in the daily grind so that we leave all the decision making to elites, but its good to think about things beyond that and the only way we will collectively break out of the grind is if we do all start thinking about some of the bigger issues and grow our awareness

Asarya said:
The internet is a metaphorical Tower of Babel.
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That's an interesting way of putting it. The problem with the Tower of babel is that some higher power didn't like what the people were doing and knocked it down. How are they gonna knock this tower down? (they're trying though eg PIPA, SOPA, ACTA)

Asarya said:
We can use the internet to educate ourselves and communicate. We can get information from many sources, not just the ones that are owned by the 1%. We can communicate with each other and brainstorm solutions to these problems. And then we can change our individual lives thereby changing the entire world. So many of the worlds problems are caused by the fact that westerners refuse to be self aware and live ethically. We choose to be ignorant to the problems around the world that we are all so heavily implicated in. If people in Western countries starting living ethically and sustainably the majority of the problems would be over in the world. The real villian is all of us, not Kony. We created Kony with our selfish, feaful, ignorant, lazy, greedy shit. Kony is our problem. If we can fix ourselves, we will fix Kony in the process.

Im all for young people in the western world acknowledging these problems and wanting to help. If they give a shit- that is the start. Misguided video or not. Theres so much dangerous crap that they are constantly brainwashed with anyway, I think that this video is going to cause more good than damage.
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I think western apathy is lessening

Partly because of the increase of awareness that you have mentioned but also because we are now on the frontline of the economic war

It used to be that we would kick back on our sofas and watch starving African children on the news and it all seemed so distant, but now the austerity is on our doorsteps

As the austerity deepens it will by necessity change peoples perceptions and priorities and it will make people seek answers to what is going on

This is a great opportunity for people to re-assess the direction we are going in and to use tools such as the internet to find answers to the problems and to act in unity

For me though, it always comes back to the same thing and that is the nature of the system itself and the power dynamic it creates and the way it allocates wealth and resources. That's the core problem. The corporations have taken over the levers of power and the people have to find a way to take power off the corporate elite and the politicians that represent them.

People power movements such as the occupy movement provide a ray of hope. There are plenty of ideas and great minds behind the movement and as the following interview with Michael Hudson on the keiser report ( starts at 15:00) says there is plenty of financial literacy behind the movement as well http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/episode-259-max-keiser/

There are plenty of successful campaigns being run through the internet (eg avaaz and 38degrees) and it's proving a fantastic way to unite and mobilise people quickly, but all these campaigns are just sub-battles of the main war (99% v's 1%)
 
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muir said:
That's an interesting way of putting it. The problem with the Tower of babel is that some higher power didn't like what the people were doing and knocked it down. How are they gonna knock this tower down? (they're trying though eg PIPA, SOPA, ACTA)
Click to expand...

They will try and take it down anyway they can. The internet is the antithesis to the system of elitism. The internet flattens and opens a world that has become to heirarchal, structured and hidden.

I think western apathy is lessening

Partly because of the increase of awareness that you have mentioned but also because we are now on the frontline of the economic war

It used to be that we would kick back on our sofas and watch starving African children on the news and it all seemed so distant, but now the austerity is on our doorsteps

As the austerity deepens it will by necessity change peoples perceptions and priorities and it will make people seek answers to what is going on

This is a great opportunity for people to re-assess the direction we are going in and to use tools such as the internet to find answers to the problems and to act in unity

For me though, it always comes back to the same thing and that is the nature of the system itself and the power dynamic it creates and the way it allocates wealth and resources. That's the core problem. The corporations have taken over the levers of power and the people have to find a way to take power off the corporate elite and the politicians that represent them.

People power movements such as the occupy movement provide a ray of hope. There are plenty of ideas and great minds behind the movement and as the following interview with Michael Hudson on the keiser report ( starts at 15:00) says there is plenty of financial literacy behind the movement as well http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/episode-259-max-keiser/

There are plenty of successful campaigns being run through the internet (eg avaaz and 38degrees) and it's proving a fantastic way to unite and mobilise people quickly, but all these campaigns are just sub-battles of the main war (99% v's 1%)
Click to expand...

I guess we have great odds yes? 99% v's 1% is something I will put my money on. The only problem is that most of the 99% dont realise how deeply implicated they are in their own problem and are unwittingly supporting the goals of the 1% through their own fear, ignorance and laziness.

I agree with you are 100% that people are becoming more aware. And unfortunately, like you said, its because its hitting them where it hurts the most- their back pocket, not their heart. As we start feeling the effects of our ill-concieved actions over the past two centuries the pain will only worsen for us. I think that this is only fair and balanced. We reap what we have sowed collectively.

Corporations have become neo-gods, psychopaths that feed of the energy and money of people. The people have now become 'consumers' rather than humans. Little cogs in the system to make sure everything stays the way it is and that money is never distributed in the way it needs to be. And capitalism is the church, where they preach their doctrines to alienate people and divide people, setting one brother against another. We live our whole lives not really ever 'alive', most of us never experiencing the true joy of love and connection that I believe is inherent in all humans.

These corporations, like all gods, cannot survive if they are starved of the attention and resources of their followers. Like all gods, we need to believe in them and reinforce them so that they may exist. These gods need us more than we need them. We created them and we can destroy them too.

The tide is turning though. We are all blessed to be alive in this day and age. Things will only get better as we grow more conscious and remember who we are. We can change the world and we will.
 
acd said:
Kony isn't there, though. I read he left Uganda in 2005, but that the Uganda government is still searching to arrest him and other LRA members.
Why do you suppose the video did not include that information?

This link is one way to look at it : http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/kony-2012/
It offers some perspective about Invisible Children, the organization that made the video.


The video did have somewhat of an emotional affect on me, though. But there is more to it than that..
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Yeah, it affected me too. But this video is interesting...

[video=youtube;7DO73Ese25Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7DO73Ese25Y[/video]

muir said:
Botswana exports: diamonds, oil, gold, uranium etc which the first world buys so the first world is heavily involved however you cut it

The US also has military interests in Botswana and is willing to open its cheque book to get what it wants

The debt many third world countries are in is forced onto them by the first world at the point of a gun

Its not a case usually of the west giving a country a fish because as you've already mentioned the western powers stole much of the resources during the imperialist era and much of the aid now comes with interest (eg loans from the IMF)

Banking seems to be a growth area in Botswana but if they follow the wests neoliberal methods then their banks will soon be as insolvent as ours (kept alive by squeezing money out of the taxpayer through 'austerity')

I agree with you that these countries should be left to get on with things but they will not be left alone by neo-imperialist powers whether western or eastern who have an eye to a larger geo-political agenda
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Botswana is diversifying and moving more towards service sector jobs. They will always have a mineral industry because people will never stop demanding diamonds, copper, ect. When I said "they did it themselves", what I meant was that there wasn't a whole lot of foreign investment into things like capital or franchises. Wealthy countries need to buy from places like Botswana in order for them to grow more quickly.

Their banks won't be as insolvent as ours are so long as that they don't follow the central banking model we have adopted in western countries.

The point I was trying to make is that Botswana opened up it's borders to allow people and goods to flow more freely while protecting property; all necessary things for free markets to work properly. If you go to Zimbabawe, they aren't so well off and they've done things completely different. War and constant government intervention have made it difficult for their economy to grow. You have starvation in Zimbabwe while next door, they've virtually eliminated child labor.
 
bickelz said:
Yeah, it affected me too. But this video is interesting...

[video=youtube;7DO73Ese25Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7DO73Ese25Y[/video]



Botswana is diversifying and moving more towards service sector jobs. They will always have a mineral industry because people will never stop demanding diamonds, copper, ect. When I said "they did it themselves", what I meant was that there wasn't a whole lot of foreign investment into things like capital or franchises. Wealthy countries need to buy from places like Botswana in order for them to grow more quickly.

Their banks won't be as insolvent as ours are so long as that they don't follow the central banking model we have adopted in western countries.

The point I was trying to make is that Botswana opened up it's borders to allow people and goods to flow more freely while protecting property; all necessary things for free markets to work properly. If you go to Zimbabawe, they aren't so well off and they've done things completely different. War and constant government intervention have made it difficult for their economy to grow. You have starvation in Zimbabwe while next door, they've virtually eliminated child labor.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying what i am about to say in opposition to what you are saying, i'm just going to put my perspective across

Firstly i totally agree with you over the central banking issue and we both know our mistrust of centralised power is our common ground

This Kony campaign is such a minor issue in the grand scheme of things.....that might sound heartless because so many people have been affected by his actions, but it gets back to what i was saying before about treating the problem not the symptoms

So i agree with you that developing sustainably is the best way to ensure stability and to prevent the rise of future Konys. The pitfalls we've fallen into in the west is that we have allowed the wealth to become too focussed at the top of society which is now destabilising our societies and stifling our economies. We have also allowed through lobbying the utter corruption of our politicians by monied interests. We talk about the corruption in Africa but our own politicians are bought by the corporations. Our own system is corrupt to the core.

The western imperialist powers for example the US clearly have interests in Africa in order to exploit resources and compete with China

The people behind the military industrial complex are the same people behind the big corporations as they have all fused together and are moving together in mutual interest. The corporations and the military are like the one, two punch combo of the US

So these monied interests are wreaking havoc at home by funnelling all the wealth upwards and they are wreaking havoc abroad by exploiting third world countries

So again it comes back to how to challenge the coercive hierarchy?

Kony is kind of acting as smoke screen here. If the energy, publicity and money behind the kony campaign was poured into tackling corporate fascism it might benefit more people globally in the long run.....but peoples efforts and attentions are being drawn to different things

People need to stay focussed on tackling the current power structure. The occupy movement seem to be the biggest player at the moment

I've mentioned on another thread the 'problem, reaction, solution' (Ike) approach used by the power elites.

This could be an example of that. They create a problem: Kony, to create a reaction in the public which justifies the solution that they offer, which is the placing of military bases in Uganda (Hegel's thesis, antithesis, synthesis)
 
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[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] I agree with your post that Kony is in reality "small beer" compared to the big global players who cause so much wrong doing, subverting democracy and using the media and monetary system to further their own interests.

Perhaps though with Kony because he is relatively speaking small fry there is more opportunity of success ? If this campaign were successful might it encourage other campaigns, which could address some of the issues you mention?

For myself I don't think the changes I hope to see in society will occur in my lifetime, but I do hope to see the beginnings of change. I don't want to see Kony scapegoated or killed. It would be much better to see him brought to trial, and for some examination of how and why anyone should behave as he has. I would like to think it might make a few other "bad guys" think twice before imagining they can get away with what they're doing.
 
That part of the world will always be screwed up. This is just one more warlord that will [inevitably] cause more issues, kill more people, and destroy lives.
Moving on, nothing new to see here!

-Anna
 
Annabreher said:
That part of the world will always be screwed up. This is just one more warlord that will [inevitably] cause more issues, kill more people, and destroy lives.
Moving on, nothing new to see here!

-Anna
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The apathy. I daresay you have just verbalised what many people actually think. I totally disagree but thanks for sharing your view.
 
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Asarya said:
I totally disagree
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You disagree that:
  • That part of the world will always be screwed up
  • this is just one more warlord
  • he will cause more issue
  • he will kill more people
  • he will destroy lives
  • annabreher is moving on
  • there is nothing new to see
 
o_q said:
You disagree that:
  • That part of the world will always be screwed up
  • this is just one more warlord
  • he will cause more issue
  • he will kill more people
  • he will destroy lives
  • annabreher is moving on
  • there is nothing new to see
Click to expand...

Yes I personally disagree with the sentiment expressed in those statements.
I think:
*That part of the world does not have to be and will not always be screwed up.
*This isnt about just one more warlord. The issue is entirely more complicated than that
***He will only cause more issues, kill more people, destroy lives if the issue is left to stagnate, people and culture as a whole remain inactive and passive, and the roots of this issue are not addressed. More destruction is not inevitable. There is always a choice that we all make. There is much that can be done to prevent further atrocities and there are many people that care about stopping these atricocities. The issue is not even about Kony. He is just a manisfestation of the underlying problem.
* Indeed annabreher is moving on. It is not possible for me to disagree with her action. I do diagree with the sentiment of action, but I have no wish to personally judge the action of someone I dont know. Her statement is her perogative and I respect her honesty.
*This is new. Everything about this video (that I do not personally agree with) has revolutionised the way people learn about and approach issues of social justice. Globalisation, communciation, the internet etc means that we can tackle this problem in a new way. The fact that millions of people are watching this video and talking about it is new.
 
I didn't really get...interested. On that particular video, nor the fervor in which some people are pursuing (to share) Kony in hopes (to make them 'socially aware', and) to capture him. A simple look at his Wikipedia page almost fills the curiosity. And tells me what I need to know.

Yes, a terrible, terrible man. I hope he gets captured, and the children, be rescued / prevented from similar things. But the issue might be very complex.

But this video; this social movement, reeks of guilt tripping me / everyone because OMG CHILDREN IN AFRICA HOW CAN YOU NOT CARE!?!?!?!?!?!?
Which, has an inherent, admittedly personal layer of ego boosting. Sorry.
 
muir said:
The problem with the Tower of babel is that some higher power didn't like what the people were doing and knocked it down. How are they gonna knock this tower down? (they're trying though eg PIPA, SOPA, ACTA)
Click to expand...
More like, everyone has a voice; we assume everyone has the same voice, and we want our voice to be HEARD.
 
Trifoilum said:
More like, everyone has a voice; we assume everyone has the same voice, and we want our voice to be HEARD.
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me!

I'm totally for people power

Look i think this Kony guy sounds like a really nasty piece of work and i think its good that people want to see him stopped. I don't think it's ego tripping for people in the west to want to see the world improve, i think its part of our natural make up as social animals to want to see other people safe and the world in general more stable and safe

I'm just cautioning that even if this particular campaign is a genuine grass roots effort then there is a danger with all of these things that they can get hijacked by powerful people. For example if the US want an excuse to station troops in Uganda, so that they can exert pressure in Africa against governments in order to get at countries resources then they could use this campaign to justify it.

The other concern i have is that this campaign might help skew peoples perspective

This Kony guy is said to have kidnapped 10's of thousands of kids and press ganged them into service. The actions of the US whether through sanctions or outright violence have killed more than a million children, women and men in Iraq. This campaign of terror against the Iraqis (who have never done any harm to the US) included the bombing of food factories in order to starve the Iraqi civilians. this included a factory that produced powdered milk for babies.

There are corporate interests who want war in iraq and elsewhere because they make money from producing weaponry and from extracting and managaing oil, from bankrolling conflict and for producing many other items that are demanded (whether needed or not) during times of conflict.

These corporate interests push the government towards certain actions and operate through think tanks such as the Council On Foreign Relations

Over a million Iraqis........think on that for a few minutes......then ask yourself: where is the public campaign against the state sanctioned campaign of terror against the Iraqi people or the current occupation of Afghanistan, where some drunk US soldiers have just gunned down 16 civilians including children after bursting into their homes?

There were anti-war protests: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War

The attention and pressure of the public needs to be focussed and it needs to go to the core of the problem which is the corporate dominance of government
 
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Kony for President, Make America great again!
 
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