Is the Confederate Flag racist?

just me

just me

Well-known member
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Care to explain the debate over this flag, anyone?

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I understand that the confederate flag itself is not literally/historically emblematic of slavery. But symbols take on the meaning culture and society bestows on them. Ex: The swastika indicates good luck/well being in Hindu culture historically. Yet most people don't feel comfortable or happy to see a flag with that design on it. It has taken on new meaning and new significance that is unnecessarily distressing and provoking. Living in the South, the thing I have noticed with the confederate flag is that it is most often touted by people who seem to pride themselves on being intolerant, violent and ignorant. Symbols, like people, suffer from guilt by association. I am fine with doing away with the ones (symbols, not people that is) that have become polluted.
 
leston-south-carolina-1865.jpe


The devastation of Broad Street in Charleston, SC in 1865, after the war.
 
My face is racist.

If you put a Ku Klux Klan robe on yourself, you can't expect people not to call you racist. State's right's... unavoidably linked to their right to keep slaves. Swastika flags being reclaimed by not-quite Neo-Nazis invoking protection from the gods next?

Do people do it just to stir the pot? Duh.

Buy Nike shoes, support the revolution. Just do it!
 
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I used to have a big one in my room just for the sake of no fucks being given. Don't really care about it but the fact that people make a big deal of it kind of makes me want to put them everywhere.
 
Over 25% of Southern white men of military age, meaning the backbone of the South's workforce, died during the Civil War. This left countless families destitute. By the end of the 19th Century, and well into the 20th Century, the South lived in a state of poverty. Union armies torched many of the South's largest cities. Many of the South's human and material resources were destroyed by Union armies.

The South has a lot of pride in that flag. Many things the Union armies did would be called war crimes today. Ignorance about that flag hurts me deeply. It is being taken away because of more hatred for the South. Using the black card to remove it is ignorant.

History can not be changed. According to the Department of Justice, I am "Not Hispanic or Latino."

I look at people that want to destroy this flag as being ignorant. I see most of it coming from the Liberal mindset. The people of the South are a proud people. Taking our flag away will most likely re-kindle a fire of dignity among many of us. If there is hate, it is most likely towards a government and its ways of thinking; not toward the black man.
 
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The argument about states' rights always gets me. You see, the Civil War was about states' rights, but it wasn't that the south was for states' rights and the north was for using the federal government to take away the rights of states. To the contrary, the south was against states' rights. They were upset about how the north allowed escaped slaves to count as free, and they wanted the federal government to take away that right of northern states and force them to treat the escaped slaves as property. In their mind it was about states' rights, but it was very explicitly about the right to allow people to own slaves. Read their declarations of succession. The whole 'civil war wasn't about slavery' thing was made up in the rhetoric that ensued after the war.
 
[MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION] you gave me a positive rep, but I want to set the record straight so that you won't be fooled.

I hate symbolism, don't give a crap about the supposed heritage, I think both sides of the issue are kooky and the main reason I've ever used that flag was to be a sacrilege to them both.
 
just me said:
Over 25% of Southern white men of military age, meaning the backbone of the South's workforce, died during the Civil War. This left countless families destitute. By the end of the 19th Century, and well into the 20th Century, the South lived in a state of poverty. Union armies torched many of the South's largest cities. Many of the South's human and material resources were destroyed by Union armies.

The South has a lot of pride in that flag. Many things the Union armies did would be called war crimes today. Ignorance about that flag hurts me deeply. It is being taken away because of more hatred for the South. Using the black card to remove it is ignorant.

History can not be changed. According to the Department of Justice, I am "Not Hispanic or Latino."

I look at people that want to destroy this flag as being ignorant. I see most of it coming from the Liberal mindset. The people of the South are a proud people. Taking our flag away will most likely re-kindle a fire of dignity among many of us. If there is hate, it is most likely towards a government and its ways of thinking; not toward the black man.
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Fort_Sumter_storm_flag_1861.jpg

They're all a few generations dead.

There are better battles that actually mean something if they're won.
 
Y0u said:
Fort_Sumter_storm_flag_1861.jpg

They're all a few generations dead.

There are better battles that actually mean something if they're won.
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Nothing wrong with remembering history. It's the borderline fanatical taking it to heart bit that is flipping creepy. Especially when it comes with vague or implied threats acting like the South will rise again in solidarity. Forget that noise. They're asking for it by being creepy and borderline threatening.
 
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Sherman personally saw his men rape and murder unyielding slaves throughout the march and gave no order to stop this. Those slaves who accepted the offer to enlist were given unarmed porter duties and treated comparatively well, but could only rely on food and water provisions when they were in surplus after the army was satisfied. Sherman also ordered the execution by firing squad of a 50-year-old man accused of espionage. He was most likely not guilty but was given no trial. All crops were either consumed or burned, as were all livestock slaughtered. It is surmised that 50,000 civilians were killed during the war, and possibly 1,000 of them died during the Savannah Campaign at the hands of soldiers unlawfully entering their houses to pillage. The 3rd and 4th Amendments to the Constitution prohibit this. copied
 
sprinkles said:
Nothing wrong with remembering history. It's the borderline fanatical taking it to heart bit that is flipping creepy. Especially when it comes with vague or implied threats acting like the South will rise again in solidarity. Forget that noise. They're asking for it by being creepy and borderline threatening.
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Oh, there's definitely nothing wrong with remembering history... the greatest lessons learned from that war should have been humanitarian, through and through. Instead, we remember the stars and bars and how awesome it was and how it wouldn't be so bad again. Here's a hint: it was an ugly, disgusting, slaughter that tore the country and families apart, like all war. It sucked.
 
sprinkles said:
Nothing wrong with remembering history. It's the borderline fanatical taking it to heart bit that is flipping creepy. Especially when it comes with vague or implied threats acting like the South will rise again in solidarity. Forget that noise. They're asking for it by being creepy and borderline threatening.
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Ignorance often enlists ignorant people to subdue its irony. Everywhere I study the war, I see no reason for this insanity about the Confederate Flag. What you are saying is ignorant. Implied threats? Ignorant. Having a little pride for one's homeland? Creepy? Ignorant? Do you stand to allegiance to the flag? Do you sing "My country tis of thee, sweet land of liberty"? Do you pledge allegiance to the flag?

All this is insane. Is the Federal government treating the poor blacks better than they were treated many years ago? In many instances, no. The government forces itself on people to do its will. Special groups jump on the bandwagon every chance they get and for what? This isn't about the black man. It's about ignorance.

There are many symbols used in the world for good, with some using it for stupidity and evil. Want to take every symbol that has ever been or is being abused away?
 
just me said:
Sherman personally saw his men rape and murder unyielding slaves throughout the march and gave no order to stop this. Those slaves who accepted the offer to enlist were given unarmed porter duties and treated comparatively well, but could only rely on food and water provisions when they were in surplus after the army was satisfied. Sherman also ordered the execution by firing squad of a 50-year-old man accused of espionage. He was most likely not guilty but was given no trial. All crops were either consumed or burned, as were all livestock slaughtered. It is surmised that 50,000 civilians were killed during the war, and possibly 1,000 of them died during the Savannah Campaign at the hands of soldiers unlawfully entering their houses to pillage. The 3rd and 4th Amendments to the Constitution prohibit this. copied
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And how many Iraqis have we done this to? Do people not get this stuff? Will they ever?
 
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The swastika was originally a sign of peace. Unfortunately it was adopted by lunatics and now its a symbol for just how wrong humans can go.
 
Dragon said:
The argument about states' rights always gets me. You see, the Civil War was about states' rights, but it wasn't that the south was for states' rights and the north was for using the federal government to take away the rights of states. To the contrary, the south was against states' rights. They were upset about how the north allowed escaped slaves to count as free, and they wanted the federal government to take away that right of northern states and force them to treat the escaped slaves as property. In their mind it was about states' rights, but it was very explicitly about the right to allow people to own slaves. Read their declarations of succession. The whole 'civil war wasn't about slavery' thing was made up in the rhetoric that ensued after the war.
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Slavery was a part of life many people were a part of. It's gone. Do you think the Civil War was about slavery? I have personally stood at the ruins of slaves houses, chimneys still standing, that were burnt to the ground. The slaves would not leave. They knew no other life. They begged to remain, but the law made the owner burn their houses down and ferry them away.
 
To clarify, I don't care if individuals choose to show off their symbols, from the neutral to the offensive. Right to freedom of speech extends all the way to the proverbial not shouting fire in a crowded theater, as far as I'm concerned. However, I can see why it would be seemly for, SC for example, to choose not to fly the confederate flag in its capital anymore.
 
This is how I see it:

The jihadist group has been destroying non-Muslim or Shi'ite Muslim sites, in an attempt to rewrite history and wipe out other cultures and religions.

Back in July when Jonah's Tomb was destroyed the tomb of another ancient Jewish prophet, Daniel, was also destroyed in the Mosul area.

It seems to me ignorance wants to rewrite history.
 
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