INTP: An ideal mate?

[knight in battle]

I was appalled by Terence Duniho's suggestion that INTPs are the most ideal type for INFJs. Not only does this contradict the claims of Socionics (that ESTJs are the ideal) but it also overlooks the obvious disadvantage that INFJs have in reference to INTPs. An INFJ and INTP are Benefit-Beneficiary relations in Socionics (INFj-INTp) or, at best, Look-A-Like relations (INFp-INTp).

The INFJ, most likely, is constantly trying to communicate with the INTP and never succeeding. Moreover, the INFJ is never going to get from the INTP what he or she needs in the long run, despite early signs to the contrary.

 

[Jill Hives]

Haha @ the constantly trying to communicate and never succeeding... I can tell you as an INFJ who is married to an INTP that this does actually happen a lot. However, it happens mostly, when I am forgetting I am dealing with an INTP and need to just be fucking blunt as hell. This is not natural for me to be this way. And it does frustrate me when he doesn't pick up on things that I think should be OBVIOUS! It forces me out of my comfort zone to be so upfront about certain things, but really that is probably a good thing in the end. Overall I can talk with him and relate with him about most things better than almost anyone I've ever met so far...

 

[Kgal]

And you honestly think an INFJ is going to get what they need from an ESTJ?

This is an excerpt from personalityjunkie:

For INFJs, expressing themselves through their Fe is critical to their psychological and physical health and well-being. Even if doing so does not provide them with immediate solutions to the problem at hand, they tend to feel better once they have expressed their feelings, whether through words or tears. This is especially important for the mates or friends of INFJs to recognize. Namely, INFJs are usually not looking for others to solve their problem, but only to offer support, empathy, and reassurance. Without such an outlet, INFJs can begin to feel isolated and depressed, turning to their inner fantasy world as a means of escape. And while fantasizing may seem helpful in the short-term, it usually makes the real world seem even less tolerable and can exacerbate existing frustrations toward life.

http://personalityjunkie.com/the-infj/2/

Do you think an ESTJ can offer empathy on an INFJs emotions? My first great love was an ESTJ and we dated off an on for 3 years in college trying to get it right. In the end I did not feel ....hmmm...understood....loved? maybe? ... On the other hand....I can see where it would have been nice to come home to him in the evenings...sit in front of the fire and drink a glass of wine in peace. Since he didn't "do" feelings he wouldn't have many of his own suppressed within and therefore he would have created a space for me to let mine relax and breathe.

Still... I walked away from him back then and again recently. [shrug]

Maybe....if both were well developed in their inferior functions....

 

[knight in battle]

[MENTION=2578]Kgal[/MENTION]

Your analysis actually makes a lot of sense compared to Socionics. I had a similar problem with an ESTJ. Excellent communication and interaction. Less than nurturing on feeling.

What do you think? Someone with similar Fe usage? Wouldn't that be a lot easier than an Fi? I'm thinking that, despite the Fe/Ti connection with INTPs, it's not ideal, because they get less from our Fe than we do from their Ti. Maybe ISFJ (excellent emotional support)? ESTP (still low on emotional support, though)?

Or I guess Keirsey was right: ENTP is still the standard in terms of being on equal footing. Secondary Fe ---> Tertiary Fe. Secondary Ti ---> Tertiary Ti.

 

[Blind Bandit]

I hate to say this but so far I think only an INFJ or other very close personality type will really result in happiness. INFJs are so such odds balls they need similarity not difference to have stronger relationships.

 

[Melkor]

Well if they're going to base their relationships on what an online publications tells them is a 'good fit' I say they deserve to be ignored by said 'INTP'.

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

INTPs are ideal for everyone (advertisement)

 

[Blind Bandit]

INTPs are ideal for everyone (advertisement)

Case in point.

 

[Bird]

I haven't read the thread so I'm unsure if this has been pointed out to you
but socionics and MBTI are vastly different. An INFJ does not always equate
INFj and INTP does not mirror an INTp. Function definitions are quite different
in many ways. There's a defined difference in individual types in socionics as
well. Por exampla: Fi-INFp is different from Fe-INFp and Ne-INFp, etc...
In some ways socionics is a lot more vast than MBTI, especially in intertype
relations. Duality is a concept that is not really understood well until you've learned
quite a bit of the socionics theory. Maybe it would help you if you started at
the basics if you're really interested in knowing what socionics refers to as your
"dual" or best possible mate.

 

[christmas]

Or I guess Keirsey was right: ENTP is still the standard in terms of being on equal footing. Secondary Fe ---> Tertiary Fe. Secondary Ti ---> Tertiary Ti.

yay, i'll give you some anecdotal evidence!!!!

that boy (ENTP) and i get along very easily. we are very accepting of each other's bullshit. smoooooove sailing. <3

o_q and i are biffles, but it requires a tad more work. there is MOAR fight. we learn a lot from each other. sometimes he bans me from using logic, and i think i almost taught him how to hug. yes, INTPs and INFJs make good companions.

 

[Trifoilum]

....uh.?
What are the point you're trying to make, if I may ask?

 

[Kgal]

@Kgal

Your analysis actually makes a lot of sense compared to Socionics. I had a similar problem with an ESTJ. Excellent communication and interaction. Less than nurturing on feeling.

What do you think? Someone with similar Fe usage? Wouldn't that be a lot easier than an Fi? I'm thinking that, despite the Fe/Ti connection with INTPs, it's not ideal, because they get less from our Fe than we do from their Ti. Maybe ISFJ (excellent emotional support)? ESTP (still low on emotional support, though)?

Or I guess Keirsey was right: ENTP is still the standard in terms of being on equal footing. Secondary Fe ---> Tertiary Fe. Secondary Ti ---> Tertiary Ti.

When I woke this morning I remembered a member here telling me they loved their ESTJ husband - but admittedly didn't feel comfortable showing/sharing all of their feelings with said husband because he didn't "get it". She was beginning to let herself express herself more. That was a year or more ago and I do not know how this member is doing now.

I think it all depends upon where the INFJ can get the outlet they need for expression validated by persons whom they trust. In most marriages - the mate of the INFJ is not going to want their spouse going outside of the marriage to get themselves validated.

Hence the reason I am not with a mate anymore. I am of the opinion that [MENTION=630]Blind Bandit[/MENTION] has a pretty good point in that we need at least an intuitive person who has a holistic view - with whom we can completely be ourselves. From my experience being a female - yes I can get some validation from other intuitive females - but it only goes so far. There is need for a male's perspective interaction as well. How can one do that without becoming emotionally entangled? Our current society's rules of engagement between members of the opposite sex are pretty narrow imo. It's very hard to have friendships with the opposite sex - although I'm getting better at doing so.

I think anyone would benefit from watching their interactions with others and paying careful attention to their resulting internal dialogue. An individual who has a holistic view of what it is to be human - including the importance of emotions - would be a good choice for an INFJ - regardless of their type. I think a large part of the problem here in the West is the emphasis on logic and thinking only - and minimizing any negative emotions. It's ludicrous and unhealthy.

Perhaps you could let you go of using the types as a guideline for a suitable mate - and use them to learn how to communicate well between yourself - and others. Your life will flow for you if you do that for your self. And love will find you.

 

[Kmal]

infjs in socionics is an infp is MBTI, and infp in socionics is infj in mbti.

the estp is the dual for infj (in mbti), estj is the conflictor for infjs (mbti).

other than that, dont make it a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Bird]

infjs in socionics is an infp is MBTI, and infp in socionics is infj in mbti.

the estp is the dual for infj (in mbti), estj is the conflictor for infjs (mbti).

other than that, dont make it a self fulfilling prophecy.

... actually, there is no conversion chart. It's not a set rule that INFJ
= INFp or INTP = INTj. Etc...

 

[Kmal]

... actually, there is no conversion chart. It's not a set rule that INFJ
= INFp or INTP = INTj. Etc...

INFj in socionics is Fi-Ne
INFp is Ni-Fe so i went ahead and converted it. Unless I'm still misunderstanding

 

[knight in battle]

@Kgal

There is need for a male's perspective interaction as well. How can one do that without becoming emotionally entangled?

Alan McGinnis, in The Friendship Factor, states that it is indeed important to develop opposite sex friendships that are outside of the romantic relationship, because the "spark" in opposite sex interactions is what is needed. He goes so far as to say that the difficulty of drawing boundaries is one thing that is interesting about such platonic friendships.

But yes, you're right. I should quit my typologizing while I'm still sane, young, and single.

 

[knight in battle]

infjs in socionics is an infp is MBTI, and infp in socionics is infj in mbti.

the estp is the dual for infj (in mbti), estj is the conflictor for infjs (mbti).

other than that, dont make it a self fulfilling prophecy.

Actually, the INFJ is only INFp if the person is a weak F. Otherwise, the general connection is INFJ <--> INFj. :w: However, I'm actually 91% as likely to be INFp as INFj according to my test results on sociotype.com

There is actually a "dual" in MBTI?

 

[Kmal]

Actually, the INFJ is only INFp if the person is a weak F. Otherwise, the general connection is INFJ <--> INFj. :w:

There is actually a "dual" in MBTI?

MBTI INFJ - Ni-Fe-Ti-Se
Socionics INFp - Ni-Fe-Si-Te-Se-Ti-Ne-Fi http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=INFP
MBTI INFP - Fi-Ne-Si-Te
Socionics INFJ - Fi-Ne-Ti-Se-Te-Si-Fe-Ni http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=EII

I was talking about the conversion of INFp to INFJ for MBTI and that the INFp's dual is the ESTp, also ESTP in MBTI.

 

[christmas]

i've got more anecdotal evidence:

my grandparents

grandpa was INTP

grandma was INFJ

they were married for 48 years until grandma died.

most people would say they had a "perfect marriage." to tell the truth it was quite rough in the beginning. my grandmother was ten years younger than my grandfather. he was oblivious of that fact until they got the marriage license. INTPs are kind of assholes when they are younger, and INFJs can be rather impulsive and dumb when feelings are involved. things were a little volatile but never abusive early on in the marriage. as they got older my grandfather developed his Fe quite well, and he became quite charming. my grandmother became more balanced and wise, but was always a riot to be around. my grandparents really grew up together, and they taught each other how to be the best people they could be. blah blah... i don't know if INFJs and INTPs are ideal partners, but they are extremely beneficial to each other.

 

[Blind Bandit]

Before I get sucked into anymore discussion. For myself and many others Socionics holds no weight. So if someone quotes Socionics I will ignore that claim as I find that theory set redundant. Such a theory is just another way to confuse the issue.

Also I don't find any personality system relationships to be valid for me. When most of these matches are opposites or flips of the person in question. I don't find that convincing.

A good relationship is built more on similarities than differences. For most of us such a relationship won't be as interesting, but it will likely last longer. Drastically different people may seem more romantic as they may have more to overcome. But it doesn't mean such a relationship will last or be fulfilling.

Lets take for example a common match for an INFJ, an ENTP. There is no way in hell that I would be able to get along with a female ENTP as more than friends. Their base personality drives me crazy!

Oh and there is no way in hell I would ever be able to be with an ESXJ person it just isn't happening.

So for me the most common matches as recommended by personality theory's aren't good matches.