INFJs and Clinical Depression | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

INFJs and Clinical Depression

invisible said:
in this case, the journalists involved in reporting this have not understood the research that was done. the correlation does not show that the inflammation is causative, only that it is comorbid. that is not news. when i was first admitted to hospital for depression at age 20 my joints were visibly swollen and i was in so much muscular pain that walking required great quantities of energy and left me breathless. at the time, my doctors told me that these were physical symptoms of severe depression. if i had been treated with anti-inflammatories, it would not have been at all surprising if i had experienced some alleviation in my depression, since it would have treated my discomfort. there is no reason not to think that treating those patients with anti-inflammatories did not treat their mood through the treatment of their physical symptoms, rather than the treatment of their depression.

it is my personal opinion that the journalists have an agenda, which is that they are concerned with giving support to the idea that depression has a physical, biological cause. i think that they have not understood that it is already well established that depression has a physical and biological causative aspect, to do with the operation of the brain, which is not just aetherial mind stuff, but is made out of actual physical matter, and operates through chemical reactions, just like other organs in the human body.

although this is irrelevant, can i please say, that VICE is not a scientific journal.
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I didn’t read it as a definitive thing at all.
As for the source…here's one from PBS http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/body/depression-may-caused-inflammation/
I see it as one key component in a group of new ways of thinking about depression.
I don’t need lectures on depression or chronic pain thank you, as I am quite familiar and personally we are very good friends.
Depression does have a neurochemical component, but there is a psychological “ethereal” component as well.
Fucked up shit in people’s life or even in the womb (like when my Mom’s Mom died while she was preggers with me) act as switches for the biological aspect of it all, but why discount looking at a completely holistic approach?
 
All types/people can experience depression, but I think for each type it could manifest differently. Think about what your symptoms are and what you feel like when you feel generally healthy/good versus what you feel like now. And think about how long your symptoms might be lasting. Everybody has bad days or even a bad week. If you are feeling depressed for a long time, or depressed for most hours of a given day, perhaps you should get help. Only you know yourself. It may or may not be "clinical depression"...but if you don't feel great, and it is interfering with your life, that is what matters. Hugs and good luck!
 
fourfour said:
All types/people can experience depression, but I think for each type it could manifest differently. Think about what your symptoms are and what you feel like when you feel generally healthy/good versus what you feel like now. And think about how long your symptoms might be lasting. Everybody has bad days or even a bad week. If you are feeling depressed for a long time, or depressed for most hours of a given day, perhaps you should get help. Only you know yourself. It may or may not be "clinical depression"...but if you don't feel great, and it is interfering with your life, that is what matters. Hugs and good luck!
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Always had an underlying level of depression, even as a child…I just learned to hide it really well as I got older.
I don’t see it as a negative thing anymore though at times it is difficult…it is just the perspective on the world I have been given, and for all that makes us the same…no one can even experience what’s in the heart of another, no one but you will know that pain…it’s how we carry it that defines us.
 
Skarekrow said:
I didn’t read it as a definitive thing at all.
As for the source…here's one from PBS http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/body/depression-may-caused-inflammation/
I see it as one key component in a group of new ways of thinking about depression.
I don’t need lectures on depression or chronic pain thank you, as I am quite familiar and personally we are very good friends.
Depression does have a neurochemical component, but there is a psychological “ethereal” component as well.
Fucked up shit in people’s life or even in the womb (like when my Mom’s Mom died while she was preggers with me) act as switches for the biological aspect of it all, but why discount looking at a completely holistic approach?
Click to expand...

i was not lecturing you, i was responding to the claims of the article you posted that depression is an allergy caused by inflammation. you didnt make any comments about what exactly interested you about the article when you posted it, so all i had to respond to was the claim of the article.

i agree that there is a psychological component to depression. i was not saying that there is not a psychological component, i was saying that the urgency those journalists seem to feel to establish a physical basis for depression is misplaced, since that basis is already established.

i definitely dont have any problems about thinking of depression as responding in certain ways to treatment with anti inflammatories. im happy to think that it is being treated with a range of different tools. its just that the claims of those articles, that depression is caused by inflammation, are not related to what is shown in the research that they refer to.
 
I agree that Depression is definitely a neurochemical problem, as our actions and energy that we project are all determined with how we think and feel.There is also a strong correlation between body language(physiology) and depression as well since our body reacts to how our body is postured.When the Body posture is in a positive state (head up,shoulders back,back straight,taking up room) it produces positive chemicals such as testosterone and reduces negative hormones such as cortisol which is responsible for stress,whereas the opposite occurs when the body state is negative(head down,drooping body, body taking up little room etc) .

Depression and I used to be soul mates but we have since parted ways :D.Have you found out what your triggers are for depression? Mine were identity and purpose,so once they were sorted, i never saw it since.

Wish you well on your journey
 
invisible said:
i was not lecturing you, i was responding to the claims of the article you posted that depression is an allergy caused by inflammation. you didnt make any comments about what exactly interested you about the article when you posted it, so all i had to respond to was the claim of the article.

i agree that there is a psychological component to depression. i was not saying that there is not a psychological component, i was saying that the urgency those journalists seem to feel to establish a physical basis for depression is misplaced, since that basis is already established.

i definitely dont have any problems about thinking of depression as responding in certain ways to treatment with anti inflammatories. im happy to think that it is being treated with a range of different tools. its just that the claims of those articles, that depression is caused by inflammation, are not related to what is shown in the research that they refer to.
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Sorry if I came across as snarky (now that I re-read it)…didn’t mean to.
Like I have said above…I don’t think that I will ever NOT be depressed…I’ve tried all the medications at some point or another and they don’t work for shit unless it’s the unintended side-effects you wanna talk about…haha.
It’s just my disposition…and there are things I do to balance that side of myself with positive things, and things that make me feel personally satisfied, etc.
When the shit hits the fan in my life then it can be so very easy to slip back into indulging the dark…and I can exist there in a sort of artificial hug one might get from being high on drugs, except it is not fun, but it’s like hiding in the dark corner where you won’t be noticed…and there is something cozy about that.
I actively work almost daily to balance these parts of myself.
Most of the time it is just being more mindful…of your surroundings, of how you feel, everything…the big picture and the small picture.
I have to stop…recenter myself, take deep breathes, and remind myself to experience things as an observer and not subjectively (this is being done to me type thinking, etc.), and just tell myself things like “So what?” “This too must pass.”
Life is anything but static.
(Well depending on the quantum theory you indulge in)
 
Skarekrow said:
Sorry if I came across as snarky (now that I re-read it)…didn’t mean to.
Like I have said above…I don’t think that I will ever NOT be depressed…I’ve tried all the medications at some point or another and they don’t work for shit unless it’s the unintended side-effects you wanna talk about…haha.
It’s just my disposition…and there are things I do to balance that side of myself with positive things, and things that make me feel personally satisfied, etc.
When the shit hits the fan in my life then it can be so very easy to slip back into indulging the dark…and I can exist there in a sort of artificial hug one might get from being high on drugs, except it is not fun, but it’s like hiding in the dark corner where you won’t be noticed…and there is something cozy about that.
I actively work almost daily to balance these parts of myself.
Most of the time it is just being more mindful…of your surroundings, of how you feel, everything…the big picture and the small picture.
I have to stop…recenter myself, take deep breathes, and remind myself to experience things as an observer and not subjectively (this is being done to me type thinking, etc.), and just tell myself things like “So what?” “This too must pass.”
Life is anything but static.
(Well depending on the quantum theory you indulge in)
Click to expand...

I find it interesting how many "infjs" subconsciously know many aspects of neurological psychology.Such as the technique that you performed,which is one of the most powerful techniques used for emotional rewiring(in bold).Disassociating your self from experiences and situations allows you to see the problem as it is and not any worst. Also prevents you from feeling the negative emotions.

Its cool to see people picking up on this stuff.DO you study neuro psychology ? or any other forms of psychology?
 
New to the site, so apologies if I'm intruding.

Firstly, make sure you're not surrounded by leeches draining you of your mental/emotional energy.

Secondly, as someone living with this crap (and a whole lot more) for over 20 years, the two most important things I've learned are:

(1) it is never one thing (neurochemical vs. psychological, etc.). It's always a murky combination of everything, but that does not mean the solution will be complicated or murky.

(2) Mind over matter (most of the time): Don't identify with a diagnosis or particular state (I'm depressed, I'm bipolar, I'm clinically depressed). Changing your vocabulary for explaining it can actually change how you see it, and eventually how you feel about it. Instead of saying "I'm depressed," say "I'm experiencing depression. Here are some possible reasons. Here's what might help make it better."

By changing how you view it (whatever "it" happens to be), you can prevent it from becoming an intrinsic part of your personal identity, which makes recovery easier since you're more inclined to view it as something in passing. Just see it for what it is - something you are currently experiencing. Overly simplistic, I know, but sometimes over-complicating does more damage. Balance is crucial.

Keeping a journal helps keep track of possible triggers (personal, environmental, physical, medical). Most definitely keep track of your successes. They help motivate and keep you on a happier, more resilient track. DBT also helps develop targeted coping skills for pulling out of a funk, and it's something I swear by.

Oh, and most importantly, it gets better, as long as you want it to be better. Best of luck.
 
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(1) it is never one thing (neurochemical vs. psychological, etc.). It's always a murky combination of everything, but that does not mean the solution will be complicated or murky.
I'm pretty sure the main culprits are physiology and neurology.Neurology would be the biggest problem as our subconscious mind is responsible for most negative habits we perform,as well as our state of mind and Emotional/psychological endurance.

By changing how you view it (whatever "it" happens to be), you can prevent it from becoming an intrinsic part of your personal identity, which makes recovery easier since you're more inclined to view it as something in passing. Just see it for what it is - something you are currently experiencing. Overly simplistic, I know, but sometimes over-complicating does more damage. Balance is crucial.
Fully agree with this as well.Would also add that it helps to also envision it better than it is,as this helps you strive to solve the problem.

Thanks for the insights that you have provided.Especially the triggers,as most problems are triggered from underlying problems/conflicts and sorting those out would be important for long term.And for the positive state of mind that you described,as positive affirmations and thinking can rewire our subconscious brain.
 
Skarekrow said:
Sorry if I came across as snarky (now that I re-read it)…didn’t mean to.
Like I have said above…I don’t think that I will ever NOT be depressed…I’ve tried all the medications at some point or another and they don’t work for shit unless it’s the unintended side-effects you wanna talk about…haha.
It’s just my disposition…and there are things I do to balance that side of myself with positive things, and things that make me feel personally satisfied, etc.
When the shit hits the fan in my life then it can be so very easy to slip back into indulging the dark…and I can exist there in a sort of artificial hug one might get from being high on drugs, except it is not fun, but it’s like hiding in the dark corner where you won’t be noticed…and there is something cozy about that.
I actively work almost daily to balance these parts of myself.
Most of the time it is just being more mindful…of your surroundings, of how you feel, everything…the big picture and the small picture.
I have to stop…recenter myself, take deep breathes, and remind myself to experience things as an observer and not subjectively (this is being done to me type thinking, etc.), and just tell myself things like “So what?” “This too must pass.”
Life is anything but static.
(Well depending on the quantum theory you indulge in)
Click to expand...

no its OK, im sorry as well as this medium of communication (forum) can sometimes be difficult to understand each other with.
sorry to hear about your chronic depression and i can understand how the chronic pain would make things a lot more difficult.
sometimes i have noticed that people who are continually suffering from depression are very resistant to thinking that they will ever not be depressed. my belief about this is that completely accepting that i will ever not have to struggle with depression has been one of the best things because it has changed my focus from being fixated on the idea of being "better", to focusing on the range of possibilities that is still available even though i will never be "normal", and to think about work-arounds that can increase my functionality in life. my focus over more recent years has not been on "curing" my depression for good, but on increasing my functionality in daily life, and i think that this has been a better way to go about it for me.
i think i know what you mean about indulging the dark. it makes everything seem so simple. like casting off a boat and just floating out aimlessly into an endless ocean. no need to work or try any more, just to give up and let it take over.
it is true that the things must pass. one of the hardest things is that when it is the worst, it always seems like things have always been that bad and will always be that bad. of course that isnt the case, because there are always enjoyable times again, somehow, but it can be challenging to believe that sometimes.
nothing serious here, just a few thoughts.
 
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Eh oh said:
I find it interesting how many "infjs" subconsciously know many aspects of neurological psychology.Such as the technique that you performed,which is one of the most powerful techniques used for emotional rewiring(in bold).Disassociating your self from experiences and situations allows you to see the problem as it is and not any worst. Also prevents you from feeling the negative emotions.

Its cool to see people picking up on this stuff.DO you study neuro psychology ? or any other forms of psychology?
Click to expand...

I do study neuro-phychology in a round about way I guess you can say.
I actually wanted to be a neuro-chemist when I was about 12…I got this notion in my head and checked out a bunch of books from the library.
At that time I came up with the thought that perhaps those who were meditating all day every day have subsequently overdosed their brains with certain neuro-chemicals causing visions and hallucinations and there was nothing more to it than chemistry.
I have since changed that opinion for numerous reasons you can read all about in my Merkabah thread.
I practice meditation every day because it keeps me sane…I listen and sing along to music the rest of the day because it boosts my dopamine levels that I believe have been slightly low since birth.
But also this is who I am…it has altered my life and my perception of everything that I do, think, and feel.
This helped to create me as in INFJ…certain neurotransmitters were switched on and connections were made.
And yet…there is no “self” to get all out there on you…who are you? Can you find yourself? Not your body…but your consciousness?
Even if there is no soul…and life is nothing but a series of “nows” that our quantum biological computer strings along as moving forward through time…then that is still pretty amazing to think about…to me that says there is something more, because we are the awareness of matter itself…of elements that have formed in a star and then were flung through space and time to one day order into the forms of you and me…
How could seemingly non-living matter order into something as complex and self reflecting as the human mind?
 
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invisible said:
no its OK, im sorry as well as this medium of communication (forum) can sometimes be difficult to understand each other with.
sorry to hear about your chronic depression and i can understand how the chronic pain would make things a lot more difficult.
sometimes i have noticed that people who are continually suffering from depression are very resistant to thinking that they will ever not be depressed. my belief about this is that completely accepting that i will ever not have to struggle with depression has been one of the best things because it has changed my focus from being fixated on the idea of being "better", to focusing on the range of possibilities that is still available even though i will never be "normal", and to think about work-arounds that can increase my functionality in life. my focus over more recent years has not been on "curing" my depression for good, but on increasing my functionality in daily life, and i think that this has been a better way to go about it for me.
i think i know what you mean about indulging the dark. it makes everything seem so simple. like casting off a boat and just floating out aimlessly into an endless ocean. no need to work or try any more, just to give up and let it take over.
it is true that the things must pass. one of the hardest things is that when it is the worst, it always seems like things have always been that bad and will always be that bad. of course that isnt the case, because there are always enjoyable times again, somehow, but it can be challenging to believe that sometimes.
nothing serious here, just a few thoughts.
Click to expand...

I have reached that level of acceptance with depression, and you are correct it is a freeing thing.
It’s the physical pain that have a much harder time accepting, which can exacerbate the feelings of depression and anxiety…I mean there are clearly documented physiologic pathways from chronic pain leading to that.
So I play a lot of mental out of body games with myself, they seem to help.
I am actively trying to not view my pain as a cancer in my body…which is very hard for me.
I wouldn’t keep trying though if I didn’t feel that progress has been made, and I don’t wish to discount that either.
 
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