[INFJ] INFJs and Being Present, or Lack Thereof

[ThomasJ79]

There is a part of me that can be very focused on the immediate needs of those around me. I am aware of them. However, I struggle with my own inertia, whether it be physical or mental and struggle to act on the immediate needs around me. When I'm fully present I feel like a completely different person, able to tackle agendas and fulfill obligations and duties. At some point I became drained by this state of being and have to retreat back into my mental realm and fight to reinitialize. If I don't retreat I will become depressed and incomplete. Becoming "present" is something that comes about more erratically than I've previously thought. I could be sitting down reading, reflecting, and contemplating and something snaps and I'm down on the floor playing with my kids, chasing them around the house, and just being in an overall playful mood; I can be a real goofball at times. Then the energy exhausts itself and I want to pull back once again and retreat. Some people have actual hobbies, like watching sports or doing something constructive, while I just like to contemplate. So much so, that I need solitude and time to pull my thoughts together in a meaningful way so that I may one day create something useful out of all of this. It's eighty percent thought and <20% action. Yes, less than twenty percent, some of the energy gets converted to heat and is lost in the process. I even wish I could interact with people on the forum in a more meaningful way, but I'm afraid of having to keep up with too much extroversion. Some of this is also due to other obligations as well that make my presence here too erratic for commitments. I don't like to initiate relationships with people unless I know I am going to follow through on it. I hardly hate anything more than disappointing someone. I wish to be more present here, but fearing to be present at the same time.

So what is the point of all of this? Well, I'm hoping to hear some good responses and hear how some of you struggle with being grounded or present in everyday life. Do you struggle with staying focused on the world around you and have a tendency to fall back into the comfort of your subconscious?

 

[dudemanbro]

Hey, you're me!

 

[Caneman]

i tell my INFJ wife that somewhat frequently... "hey, you are not present with me!" I used to think she was 'absent minded', but this is a much different concept than the INFJ retreating to their secret place and not being present (outwardly anyway)... I get this now, but back in the day this was a source of frustration and hurt...

so for you INFJs when you retreat to your inner sanctuary are you doing this for personal pleasure or to revitalize your drained psyche?

going shopping with her can be comical and lonely at times! I will be walking along thinking she is right next to me, the next thing I know she is 30' away walking down an aisle lost in her world... I ask her, hey honey can you at least tell me when you want to wander off, but she really has no clue she is slipping away in her own world its kind of cute if i dont let it frustrate me

 

[say what]

There is a part of me that can be very focused on the immediate needs of those around me. I am aware of them. However, I struggle with my own inertia, whether it be physical or mental and struggle to act on the immediate needs around me. When I'm fully present I feel like a completely different person, able to tackle agendas and fulfill obligations and duties. At some point I became drained by this state of being and have to retreat back into my mental realm and fight to reinitialize. If I don't retreat I will become depressed and incomplete. Becoming "present" is something that comes about more erratically than I've previously thought. I could be sitting down reading, reflecting, and contemplating and something snaps and I'm down on the floor playing with my kids, chasing them around the house, and just being in an overall playful mood; I can be a real goofball at times. Then the energy exhausts itself and I want to pull back once again and retreat. Some people have actual hobbies, like watching sports or doing something constructive, while I just like to contemplate. So much so, that I need solitude and time to pull my thoughts together in a meaningful way so that I may one day create something useful out of all of this. It's eighty percent thought and <20% action. Yes, less than twenty percent, some of the energy gets converted to heat and is lost in the process. I even wish I could interact with people on the forum in a more meaningful way, but I'm afraid of having to keep up with too much extroversion. Some of this is also due to other obligations as well that make my presence here too erratic for commitments. I don't like to initiate relationships with people unless I know I am going to follow through on it. I hardly hate anything more than disappointing someone. I wish to be more present here, but fearing to be present at the same time.

So what is the point of all of this? Well, I'm hoping to hear some good responses and hear how some of you struggle with being grounded or present in everyday life. Do you struggle with staying focused on the world around you and have a tendency to fall back into the comfort of your subconscious?

This sounds very much like me. I'm not sure we're ever going to be able to overcome it. Part of me thinks that I just need to accept it- yet I still try and fight through it. Have you tried mindfulness? I have found that meditation and going through the mindfulness practices have helped me with this a lot.

 

[LucyJr]

I wante to start a thread like this one myself, it will be interesting to hear what the "mature" members have to say.

 

[ThomasJ79]

i tell my INFJ wife that somewhat frequently... "hey, you are not present with me!" I used to think she was 'absent minded', but this is a much different concept than the INFJ retreating to their secret place and not being present (outwardly anyway)... I get this now, but back in the day this was a source of frustration and hurt...

so for you INFJs when you retreat to your inner sanctuary are you doing this for personal pleasure or to revitalize your drained psyche?

going shopping with her can be comical and lonely at times! I will be walking along thinking she is right next to me, the next thing I know she is 30' away walking down an aisle lost in her world... I ask her, hey honey can you at least tell me when you want to wander off, but she really has no clue she is slipping away in her own world its kind of cute if i dont let it frustrate me

It's just a comfortable place Let's take our inferior function, Se, and compare it with an Se dominant. If an Se dominant asks me to go find something I'll go look and then tell them that I didn't see it, that it's not there. They'll tell me it is and after they insist it is where they say it was they'll go look for themselves, quickly find it and tell me it was right in front of my face, which is pretty embarrassing. So, as an Se dominant may unable to understand how we could not see something in plain sight, I cannot understand how an Se dominant isn't aware of the things that I see, which aren't specific physical objects, but perceptions of my environment. For me, it is not about it being pleasurable because it is not, but it is revitalizing, but most importantly it is really just a natural state of being.

It's funny reading about your wife's behavior. I think it's pretty common for Nis.

 

[ThomasJ79]

This sounds very much like me. I'm not sure we're ever going to be able to overcome it. Part of me thinks that I just need to accept it- yet I still try and fight through it. Have you tried mindfulness? I have found that meditation and going through the mindfulness practices have helped me with this a lot.

Me too I am at the point of acceptance. Although I cannot be a total space cadet all the time, I think I just have to stop trying to please everyone around me by pretending not to be one at all. The problem lies with how accepting other people will be or not and how to balance it all out. It really is a constant battle. I have tried mindfulness and meditation and it does help. I like trying to be mindful while performing tasks, to be present while doing them. So the question for each of us may be: To what extent should we try to be more engaged with the world? I suppose mindfulness and meditation would be very useful for one trying to be more aware of their environment, it that is what is desired. But, like you said it is a constant fight and tempting to just throw in the towel.
*throws towel to ground for dramatic effect*

 

[La Sagna]

I wante to start a thread like this one myself, it will be interesting to hear what the "mature" members have to say.

Define 'mature'.

Seriously, I can completely relate to the struggle to spend less time thinking and more time acting. I am much much much better at it now than I was before. Reading Eckhart Tolle's writings really helped me with being present and with 'seeing' myself when I am not functioning at my best so I can kick-start myself into doing the things that I want to do. This being said, I still regularly 'space-out' and I don't believe that I could ever stop that. It just happens and sometimes feels like it's a bit of a 'reboot'. It's like I have so many thoughts going on in my head that my mind needs to concentrate to organize it all before getting back to the outside world. I think the biggest difference now is that I don't feel bad about it and just get back to doing what I need to do instead of spending any energy on chastising myself for wasting time.

 

[LucyJr]

Define 'mature'.

The ones that are experienced with this issue and how to overcome it.

Seriously, I can completely relate to the struggle to spend less time thinking and more time acting. I am much much much better at it now than I was before. Reading Eckhart Tolle's writings really helped me with being present and with 'seeing' myself when I am not functioning at my best so I can kick-start myself into doing the things that I want to do. This being said, I still regularly 'space-out' and I don't believe that I could ever stop that. It just happens and sometimes feels like it's a bit of a 'reboot'. It's like I have so many thoughts going on in my head that my mind needs to concentrate to organize it all before getting back to the outside world. I think the biggest difference now is that I don't feel bad about it and just get back to doing what I need to do instead of spending any energy on chastising myself for wasting time.

Could you please give some practical tips that you know of for being in present ?
This is serious for me, because soon I will work in a very busy enviroment with a lots of people, and I need to learn how to do it, how to train myself to be in the present and be "fast" in thinking and so on.

 

[ThomasJ79]

[MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION]

Something I've found useful is focusing my attention on the surrounding environment. When you hear sounds or smell something, try to zero in on those, whether it is birds chirping or someone cooking on the grill next door. These sensations help pull you in. Once you're in the present it becomes easier to stay there. Seriously, one of the things that helped me the most was when I was a teenager I worked in fast food and all of the noise and stimulation(and management) forced me to keep going, to stay present. After I was used to what sounds to listen for I would subconsciously listen for them, little cues, like lets say hearing a timer go off and turn it off without realizing that I did anything at all. The only problem is that it becomes exhausting to work at fast speeds with so much stimulation for so long. Every job I've had I start out motivated and focused, but I get really bored in those environments and soon start regressing. I've found the key to working in fast environments is to strike a balance between the outside environment and yourself. Figure out how fast you can work at a steady pace that will keep you engaged and motivated for years to avoid burn out. There will be people that work both faster and slower than you. Some people cannot work any faster, others are slackers and just refuse to work any faster. Some people can work really fast and never seem to tire. For them the reward of working fast outweighs any negatives they perceive. Keep in mind that the pressure to perform may make you work faster than you're comfortable with, so don't be afraid to set your boundaries early on, otherwise more and more work with be thrown upon you.

 

[say what]

Me too I am at the point of acceptance. Although I cannot be a total space cadet all the time, I think I just have to stop trying to please everyone around me by pretending not to be one at all. The problem lies with how accepting other people will be or not and how to balance it all out. It really is a constant battle. I have tried mindfulness and meditation and it does help. I like trying to be mindful while performing tasks, to be present while doing them. So the question for each of us may be: To what extent should we try to be more engaged with the world? I suppose mindfulness and meditation would be very useful for one trying to be more aware of their environment, it that is what is desired. But, like you said it is a constant fight and tempting to just throw in the towel.
*throws towel to ground for dramatic effect*

Hmmm, this is interesting. I see my life as existing in an external environment (engaging with work, friends, family, etc.) and an internal environment (how I feel, my own thoughts). It's a bidirectional relationship, meaning changes in one environment impact changes in the other. Up until now, I've coped by changing my external environment, to help regulate my internal environment - so if I was feeling overwhelmed or exhausted by my external environment, I would go into my "hermit" lifestyle which is me living in my controlled external environment as much as possible, until my internal environment was restored.

Now, mindfulness is really about taking charge of your internal environment, and not allowing the external environment to have as much of an impact on you. [MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION] this might be where you receive some tips for helping you cope in your new busy environment.

If you are truly 'mindful' this means that regardless of the external environment, you have the ability to stabilize and restore your internal environment. For an INFJ, I find the idea of this incredibly helpful. I'm am just beginning my understanding of mindfulness, and i actually start a 9-week course on it this Wednesday, so I'll be more educated in it soon; but from my readings and practice thus far, it has significantly benefited me. When I am truly aware of how I feel, and understand that it is not the external that makes me feel this way, but yet the internal (essential how I perceive the external), you can come to terms with a lot of external stress.

Jon Kabat-Zinn has a range of super easy to read books, and really great clinical books. If you're interested in beginning understanding mindfulness, I would recommend checking out his book "Wherever you go, there you are". It's super super easy to read. What I do, is I just read a short section (2-3 pages) every night before bed. It gets me thinking and reminds me of the principles of mindfulness- so it calms me. I would even suggest [MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION], if you like it, keeping it with you at work- when you feel overwhelmed or internally exhausted, just take a minute or two to read a passage and think about it.

"Full catastrophe living" by him is a great clinical book about actually practising mindfulness. I'm also waiting for a time to read "Coming to Our Senses: Healing Ourselves and the World Through Mindfulness" which is about how our environments interact with us in a variety of ways, and understanding these interactions can help us become more mindful.

Also, if you're interested in just meditation (which, if you haven't tried, I would TOTALLY recommend- just 10 minutes a day can make a big difference), I would recommend trying a 30 day free trial from http://www.getsomeheadspace.com/ (I love this site- I like the app!). There's lots of free websites out there, but I really like this one, and I find the small fee totally worth it. When I first started this, I found within a week, I was just more aware and calmer.

I'm not sure if any of this helps- these are just items that I've come across recently in my journey to cope with my internal environment. I literally live in my head, and sometimes it's how I cope- but it means that I disengage with everything friends, family and worst of all - work.

 

[La Sagna]

Could you please give some practical tips that you know of for being in present ?
This is serious for me, because soon I will work in a very busy enviroment with a lots of people, and I need to learn how to do it, how to train myself to be in the present and be "fast" in thinking and so on.

There are a number of strategies that I use according to the situation but the main key I think for staying present when it comes to accomplishing things is to work on being an observer as opposed to a judge. What I mean by this, is that when you are an observer you are aware of everything going on around you and you see things and react to things but you do not label anything. We tend (especially as introverter intuitives) to put labels on everything, such as this is 'bad' or 'good', or 'not how it should be', or 'too stressful', or 'not what I'd like to do right now', or 'something I'm not very good at', or 'a waste of time', or anything that puts a concept on what is around you or what you are doing. This extends to not judging yourself in the situation. We create our own stress in our minds but when we empty our minds of any judgement about the environment, the situation, the people around us or ourselves, it frees us from getting bogged down or overwhelmed. If we need to then go through the day in our heads and process everything later when we are not in the thick of things then that is ok, at least you will have managed to accomplish much more in your day.

I think that [MENTION=6303]Jimmers[/MENTION] advice about focusing on the surrounding environment, particularly something like a sound can be very effective as a tool to 'bring you back' if you are drifting away from being present. I tend to shake my head to get the thoughts out of there when I feel myself having unhelpful thoughts. It might look funny but it works for me. Concentrating on your breathing can also help you get back to the present, as well as looking at something in detail while emptying your mind, so you are not labelling the object you are looking at but just being observant.

If you do happen to have an emotional reaction during your day then it is helpful to acknowledge it briefly but then release it for the moment. You can go back to it later if you need to when you have time to analyze it without disrupting your work day. This is about not letting your emotions take you over but being an objective observer of your emotions. This has worked very well for me in keeping calm and level headed when dealing with difficult situations or difficult people.


This all takes practice, but if you keep working on it without judging yourself then it becomes almost second nature. I 'fall off the wagon' sometimes, but again the key is to not judge myself and I can get right back on the 'wagon'. This is just like if you are dieting and you cheat, the worst thing you can do is freak out and give up on your diet and the best thing you can do is get over having cheated on the diet and get back to making the right choices.

 

[Ghoulia Yelps]

I tend to live in the past and future more than the present.

 

[Trifoilum]

There is a part of me that can be very focused on the immediate needs of those around me. I am aware of them. However, I struggle with my own inertia, whether it be physical or mental and struggle to act on the immediate needs around me. When I'm fully present I feel like a completely different person, able to tackle agendas and fulfill obligations and duties. At some point I became drained by this state of being and have to retreat back into my mental realm and fight to reinitialize. If I don't retreat I will become depressed and incomplete. Becoming "present" is something that comes about more erratically than I've previously thought. I could be sitting down reading, reflecting, and contemplating and something snaps and I'm down on the floor playing with my kids, chasing them around the house, and just being in an overall playful mood; I can be a real goofball at times. Then the energy exhausts itself and I want to pull back once again and retreat. Some people have actual hobbies, like watching sports or doing something constructive, while I just like to contemplate. So much so, that I need solitude and time to pull my thoughts together in a meaningful way so that I may one day create something useful out of all of this. It's eighty percent thought and <20% action. Yes, less than twenty percent, some of the energy gets converted to heat and is lost in the process. I even wish I could interact with people on the forum in a more meaningful way, but I'm afraid of having to keep up with too much extroversion. Some of this is also due to other obligations as well that make my presence here too erratic for commitments. I don't like to initiate relationships with people unless I know I am going to follow through on it. I hardly hate anything more than disappointing someone. I wish to be more present here, but fearing to be present at the same time.

So what is the point of all of this? Well, I'm hoping to hear some good responses and hear how some of you struggle with being grounded or present in everyday life. Do you struggle with staying focused on the world around you and have a tendency to fall back into the comfort of your subconscious?

First of all, hello there. You're not alone.
Second of all, hugs. Here's wishing for clarity, stillness, and may your heart and mind be refreshed.

I too am struggling with keeping my conscious mind..no, not intact, but running perfectly. Too much and I start to go into automatic mode (which has bad benefits with my relationships), too less and... it sort of just..lingers.

I think a me time is very necessary for INFJs. Especially when you have lots of obligations and task to achieve and complete.
Grounding ourselves to fly, so to speak.
[MENTION=10309]Caneman[/MENTION] : it can be both. Somehow we retreated to have fun because we are drained as well, however if there's a primary thing, it would be to revitalize.

 

[Sinji]

[MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION]

Something I've found useful is focusing my attention on the surrounding environment. When you hear sounds or smell something, try to zero in on those, whether it is birds chirping or someone cooking on the grill next door. These sensations help pull you in. Once you're in the present it becomes easier to stay there. Seriously, one of the things that helped me the most was when I was a teenager I worked in fast food and all of the noise and stimulation(and management) forced me to keep going, to stay present. After I was used to what sounds to listen for I would subconsciously listen for them, little cues, like lets say hearing a timer go off and turn it off without realizing that I did anything at all. The only problem is that it becomes exhausting to work at fast speeds with so much stimulation for so long. Every job I've had I start out motivated and focused, but I get really bored in those environments and soon start regressing. I've found the key to working in fast environments is to strike a balance between the outside environment and yourself. Figure out how fast you can work at a steady pace that will keep you engaged and motivated for years to avoid burn out. There will be people that work both faster and slower than you. Some people cannot work any faster, others are slackers and just refuse to work any faster. Some people can work really fast and never seem to tire. For them the reward of working fast outweighs any negatives they perceive. Keep in mind that the pressure to perform may make you work faster than you're comfortable with, so don't be afraid to set your boundaries early on, otherwise more and more work with be thrown upon you.

Its interesting how you explained how you struggle on focusing in one area when there is a lot going. As an ENTP I also struggle to be able to focus on things in this matter. Its really difficult to listen to what someone is talking about when all you can hear is 50 other conversations going on all around you at once. People scratching the feet on the floor, knives and forks hitting each other and banging against plates etc. It can be a lot to take in process all at once. I actually prefer smaller gatherings that have less going on so I can focus a lot better on what is most important. Being a clown.

I actually thought I was an INTP at first because I didn't like crowed situations like this but I later learned that ENTP's are the most Introverted like of all the Extroverts and it started to make some more sense.

 

[Duffy]

There is a part of me that can be very focused on the immediate needs of those around me. I am aware of them. However, I struggle with my own inertia, whether it be physical or mental and struggle to act on the immediate needs around me. When I'm fully present I feel like a completely different person, able to tackle agendas and fulfill obligations and duties. At some point I became drained by this state of being and have to retreat back into my mental realm and fight to reinitialize. If I don't retreat I will become depressed and incomplete. Becoming "present" is something that comes about more erratically than I've previously thought. I could be sitting down reading, reflecting, and contemplating and something snaps and I'm down on the floor playing with my kids, chasing them around the house, and just being in an overall playful mood; I can be a real goofball at times. Then the energy exhausts itself and I want to pull back once again and retreat. Some people have actual hobbies, like watching sports or doing something constructive, while I just like to contemplate. So much so, that I need solitude and time to pull my thoughts together in a meaningful way so that I may one day create something useful out of all of this. It's eighty percent thought and <20% action. Yes, less than twenty percent, some of the energy gets converted to heat and is lost in the process. I even wish I could interact with people on the forum in a more meaningful way, but I'm afraid of having to keep up with too much extroversion. Some of this is also due to other obligations as well that make my presence here too erratic for commitments. I don't like to initiate relationships with people unless I know I am going to follow through on it. I hardly hate anything more than disappointing someone. I wish to be more present here, but fearing to be present at the same time.

So what is the point of all of this? Well, I'm hoping to hear some good responses and hear how some of you struggle with being grounded or present in everyday life. Do you struggle with staying focused on the world around you and have a tendency to fall back into the comfort of your subconscious?

I do that way too often. Too the point where I'm in the shower, or wherever, and I'll just think about this alternate reality obsessively and I don't realize how much time has gone by. In fact, I found this thread because I was searching whether I did this, you know just because "I" did it or was curious if it was an INFJ thing.I'm so glad though that I'm not the only one, haha.

It's so difficult to pull away from my subconscious thoughts, especially when the fantasy or these thoughts are better than the current reality. And I think it makes this quality really hard, especially like I have lots of work to do, but I find myself getting highly distracted and achieving very little in large amounts of time.

Again, really glad I'm not the only one. It makes us harder to focus, and you do certainly need more and crucial me-time, but you just have to keep telling yourself to re-focus. That is, if the work you have to do is very urgent. Good luck I think as an INFJ it is natural to crave solitude sometimes, and to dwell in your thoughts. But it is important as well not to dwell too much on dreams, and be present in reality.

 

[WonkyOracle]

I talk to an INFJ on here almost daily and I can tell you, they have serious problems in staying present. You can be talking about some real deep profound stuff then they wonder off and start talking to the furniture. I won't lie, it's a tad taxing when you're trying to make a point. My fave though is when they cut me off half way through a point and they say '' Wonky I've lost my carkeys, they were here a second ago '' the answer is usually '' you're sitting on them ''

It's all part of the charm I suppose.