INFJ vs. INFP intuition

[Gaze]

I know there are few INFPs on the forum, and I'm curious about the experience of intuition by INFJs compared to INFPs. I've typed as a INFJ on a good amount of MBTI tests but also identify more with INFP descriptions. And I think one of the key differences is intuition. It seems INFPs intuition/Ne is more about assessing possibilities or choices of meaning while INFJs intuition is more about a sense of "knowing" without having to go through the processes of analysing the likeliness of different possible meanings or interpretations. Thoughts?

 

[barbad0s]

As an outsider, from my experiences with INFPs and INFJs, it seems like INFP intuition is more of an approximation but is more ostensible, while INFJ intuition is more about "core meaning" but is harder to detect in reality--either you know it's there or you don't, a "knowing", like you described.

 

[ThomasJ79]

My impression of Ne was that it was more spontaneous. Does that seem to be the case in general?

 

[subwayrider]

My impression of Ne was that it was more spontaneous. Does that seem to be the case in general?

Often, I think.

I remember something about all the extraverted functions being perceived as apart from the user. Ne is not a way of seeing the self, but of seeing the world...a way of arranging the information -- in this case, intuitively.

The difference between Ni and Ne can thus manifest as it has on shows like House. In many episodes, he has breakthroughs where the answer to a medical problem comes to him when his Intuition is being triggered by outside stimuli. I think that's how Ne is apt to work, and to a lesser extent Ni; Ne is an extraverted function still anchored in the outer world; Ni conclusions and assertions can seem more nebulous than Ne for the fact that, at that point in time, they are nothing but a collective of wispy ideas newly merged in someone's mind. House has been typed as INTP by many.

Ne seems to be more on-the-go (it's an explosive force); Ni seems to require more time (it's an implosive force). This is at least how it's perceived from outside.

However, Ni is always paired with Se; the two functions are deeply intertwined. Ni can be spontaneous, because it's always being fed by (nearly) unconscious Se. This would mean that Ni could react in the sort of visceral, immediate way we currently think Ne does. ESP skaters, for instance, probably use Ni when they skate and do tricks -- that "gut feeling" seems to arise out of that Ni-Se tandem.

On the whole, though...it's probably that both functions, one Pi and the other Pe, are equally spontaneous, but that you'd never see the full spontaneity of dominant Ni because it's masked by Je.

---

It also strikes me as analogous to the difference between INTP Intuitions and INTJ: Ji-Ne likes keeping certainties to oneself, and sharing in the possibilities and uncertainties; Ni-Je prefers to preside over the uncertainties in private, and to put on a decided front for all the world.

Consequently, INFPs have never seemed to like what I guess is my overly judging nature. Unfortunately, I like sharing my judgments.

 

[Gaze]

I am not sure I would call Ne spontaneous. I think it's active in forming theories about things. It makes sense that Ne draws inspiration from the outer world because I think that's how intuition works for me. It's like matching up of various pieces of information to make up the big picture to get to the truth or meaning of what's happening. It's a process of weeding out what's make sense and what doesn't. I think that's why I like being an observer especially when I am not actively participating in a scene or situation, I tend to pick up on or notice more and my intuition is usually more accurate when I make judgments about what's happening. It's like picking up on various things in the environment to form a complete picture. I've noticed that I'm able to assess social dynamics fairly well because of this. It's almost like a scientist observing natural phenomena and coming up with a theory to explain what's happening. It's not a matter of rushing to judgment. In other words, I think Ne tends more towards inductive reasoning while Ni tends towards deductive reasoning. It goes through a longer process of getting at the truth. I think that's why INXPs are more tentative rather than certain about their judgments.

 

[subwayrider]

I like the idea that Ne draws inspiration from the outer world because I think that's how intuition works for me. It's like a conscious matching up of facts to make up the big picture to get to the truth or meaning of what's happening. It's like putting 2 and 2 together to make 4. I think that's why I like being an observer especially when I am not actively participating in a scene or situation, I tend to pick up on or notice more and my intuition is usually more accurate when I make judgments about what's happening. It's like picking up on various things in the environment to form a complete picture. I've noticed that I'm able to assess social dynamics fairly well because of this. It's almost like a scientist observing natural phenomena and coming up with a theory.

Yeah, Ne looks out at the world.

I remember when my ENTP friend first found out she was ENTP. She was taken aback because she considered herself an introvert...but then we both noticed how, even though she spent so much time alone, her insights really focused on the world around her.

I remember the question: Am I an INFJ or an ENFJ-with-Anxiety? It's really not about how much time is spent alone, or how your social skills are, but on the conception of reality and consequent thought processes.

My ENTP friend was spending a lot of time alone, but all her attention was focused on patterns and occurrences in the real world. That was really the giveaway.

I would say Ni is more...detached, partly. It doesn't necessarily deal with things as they exist in the physical world, -- extraverts and extraverted functions have the objective, outer world as their starting point -- hence INJs being considered the most abstract type. The disconnect with external reality can reach alarmingly unhealthy degrees; it's because Ni deals with the essence, or idea, of things and not really the things themselves. It tends to consider even less than Dominant Si that there's an objective basis for reality.

It reminds me of that scene in The Matrix where Neo is in the waiting room to see the Oracle. The bald kid tells him that, to bend the spoon, to alter reality, he must realize that there is no spoon -- or no reality. This strikes me as parallel to what INJs do: Arrange and rearrange information and impressions inside themselves -- not to change themselves, but to change reality.

Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth...Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

It's when you've realized the above that you see how very P INJs actually are -- perhaps the most P.

 

[ThomasJ79]

It reminds me of that scene in The Matrix where Neo is in the waiting room to see the Oracle. The bald kid tells him that, to bend the spoon, to alter reality, he must realize that there is no spoon -- or no reality. This strikes me as parallel to what INJs do: Arrange and rearrange information and impressions inside themselves -- not to change themselves, but to change reality.

Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth...Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

It's when you've realized the above that you see how very P INJs actually are -- perhaps the most P.

Incredibly insightful. That is exactly what I do. In the past, when I was extremely stressed I tried meditating and using breathing techniques to produce calmness inside. I tried and tried to approach stress reduction in this manner, but it felt awkward to me and I lost interest really quick. It felt too focused on my own state. I just can't do that for some reason. Then I thought of an idea. I thought that if I changed my view of reality maybe I wouldn't be so stressed. I think this is the Se working in a way because Se dominants seem to have a "live and let live" attitude. Because they live in the moment, troubles tend to bounch off of them much easier than other types, or so I've noticed. You can't stress about tomorrow if you aren't thinking about it. Of course, with my tendency to plan years in advance, this contradicts natural preferences. But that is the constant struggle, isn't it? Ni vs Se.

 

[Gaze]

@Seraphim

Non-INJs don't have this ability (at least not to the same extent). You understand their essence. You don't have to rely on systems, like language or math, to approach pure concepts. Non-INJs don't have this ability (at least not to the same extent). They have to approach abstract concepts indirectly and understand them by proxy through linear reasoning. But they're only approximating the pure concepts.

Not necessarily. I'm actually pretty good at grasping theory withoout needing an explanation for how it came about. I can intuit theoretical concepts without "proof" while others need clear arguments to understand theories. I am a logical thinker yes, but find myself easily picking up on theoretical concepts without question. I can understand the idea of something without needing the details to explain how it works.

I think Ne sees how concepts play out in the external world, so it notices abstract patterns. But it doesn't directly see concepts like Ni does. It sees effects, and then generates multiple pictures of the cause. So it sees possibilities, but all the possibilities, as far as Ne is concerned, are more or less equally tenable. Not so with Ni. Ni has already seen, so while it can appreciate the ingenuity of Ne, it can also point out that some of the possibilities generated by Ne miss the mark.

I think the thing about Ne, is that we can see more than one right answer whereas Ni "perceives" or "intuits" there is only one right answer. Problem is that Ne enjoys considering possibilities as mental exercise in creative and analytical thinking. It's another way of exercising our imagination. So, when someone is too quick to knock a possibility, it seems short sighted to us because it's saying, there must be only one way to perceive something, when in some cases, there isn't. And too many people confuse Ni with Fi. They interpret a situation based on how they personally feel or will handle it, not realizing that's not how the situation may be playing out. They mistake Fi for Ni. They think that because they "feel" something is A, then it must be A. And Ni can become a little overconfident assuming that it "sees' reality when it's just one sense of it. I've seen too many people too easily and readily rule things out because they felt their Ni guaranteed they were right about something, and so simply looked for clues to support their Ni insights. Problem with Ne on the other hand, is that it can sometimes have difficult knowing the difference between possibility and plausibility. But when we know the difference, we can be real forces to reckon with. I think it's what makes us Ne-users enjoy discussions and debates.

 

[ThomasJ79]

I think Ni is difficult to describe because it is so subjective and I know that my own insights are not the same as another person's, but I can make such broad, sweeping conclusions that their core truths can be ascertained. For instance, my intuition says that we are going to run out of fossil fuels in the near future which will change society as we know it. We will probably have to revert back to earlier economic and political systems at some point since many of the resources we take for granted will become scarce and someone is going to have to control their distribution. I can't intuit the specifics of when this going to happen, or how exactly it will unfold, but this is something I feel strongly is going to happen. I've noticed that many NTs I've spoken with think that technology will save us and that people will find a solution to this dilemma, and we can go on consuming the planet's resources indefinitely. I can envision a couple of different possibilities with Ne, but I usually dismiss them over what I think is going to happen.

Usually when I talk about this topic with people they call me a pessimist, but I'm just communicating how I see our future. Perhaps it is a little dystopian. :der:

 

[ThomasJ79]

[MENTION=1669]Maven[/MENTION]

I think people can refer to Ni as "feeling" because that comes close to the experience. I agree with you in that it is not really a feeling, but it is sometimes easier to say it is.