INFJ "Blue Zen State" and Dario Nardi’s Neuroscience of Personality

[meowzician]

Is anyone here familiar with this at all? I just came across this for the first time tonight. Apparently EEG's show that when INFJ's contemplate the future or address a novel problem, our brains exhibit the same zen state that other types only get at their peak moments, like an athlete performing at their peak performance, or a concert pianist performing.

 

[John K]

@meowzician I'm not familiar with this sort of study, but it doesn't surprise me because behind the specifics it is saying something similar to other perspectives on INFJ people. I first came across MBTI on a management training course - there were 22 of us attending and we took the test, then they sorted us into type-based groups and gave us some exercises to do. The way we went about the exercises was so what you would expect from their type descriptions LOL, so I'm not surprised that the way folks process the world and their interactions with it is reflected in their brain patterns.

I've used the analogy of sight myself quite often in the forum to describe my own experience of Ni, and I think it's a really good one. The video reflects on the way we turn what someone's saying into a sort of 'image', which takes significant effort. What it didn't mention, I think, is the reverse - sheer effort it takes to turn an INFJ mental 'image' into words and how imprecise it feels when we have done that. It's like trying to describe a 3-dimensional landscape in a 1-dimensional and pixelated string of words.

Just to be very INFJ - there's something that often sets my teeth on edge with videos that go into INFJ psychology, and there's just a little bit of this here, though not as bad as some are. I think it's very important for us to understand that although our insight can be very powerful and accurate, it can also lead us right up the garden path and into an old compost heap. I think it's often because our insight has cost us a lot, as the video says, so we become attached to it and cannot easily let go when it's not matching reality. An obvious example is that I doubt INFJ folks are any better than others at choosing a lifelong partner.

 

[Asa]

Is anyone here familiar with this at all?

Yes. I posted about it years ago. INFJ and INTJ share this blue zen state. (This appeals to me because I'm married to an INTJ.) Carry on.

 

[meowzician]

An obvious example is that I doubt INFJ folks are any better than others at choosing a lifelong partner.

When I was young and velociraptors roamed the earth, someone said to me that INFJ's are the type most likely to believe in true love, and least likely to find it. I don't know if that's true or not, but it stuck with me.

 

[meowzician]

Yes. I posted about it years ago. INFJ and INTJ share this blue zen state. (This appeals to me because I'm married to an INTJ.) Carry on.

Wow!

Do INTJ's also get it when imagining the future or tackling a novel problem? Or does it happen to them for other stuff?

 

[Fruiteloop]

I think I disagree with the video.

I have my mother who is ISFJ and she has no problems with social events like church and other gatherings.

The thing she does not like to do is debate issues she has no opinions about. Whereas INFJ have more abstract ideas.

So the thing about The Fe function makes no sense from the video. Fe handles social stuff much better than Fi does.

With Fi you get two kind of people. That obstinate kind and the rejected kind.

The way Fi deals with social stuff is that they don't. They either like you or dislike you and that is that and having to be in public this means they do not observe people because they either get really angry or sad, this being "upset all the time" because of other people or they shut down completely which is mostly opposite to Fe - Fe rather can take in all sorts of things from people and NOT react to it. Thinkers who have Fi react by trying to debate you. The S types with Fi just act out against themselves or other people. They way S types deal with croads is to avoid them or be center of attention.

Since right now I am INFP I just avoid people who upset me the best I can if they cannot be reasoned with. I do not have as strong a compulsion to be right as T types but I do have in me an aversion to being told I am wrong because it creates an insecurity derived from Fi

When people tell me stuff I think is not true how I see it I mostly rely on Ne to show how things could be different but that does not always work. People eventually try and corner you into things that have nothing to do with what you believe. It keeps me away.

I do think that INFJ can have energy drains but it is even more a problem for Fi types who cannot, "not" react in some way.

ENFJ and ESFJ I think are the least reactive types when it comes to people. Because of the Fe function being first.

With all that said the way Ni is as to zen like qualities. I do not think that reduces energy as much as it blocks it out.

In fact blocking out energy requires energy so the video has a misunderstanding of introversion and extraversion.

Extravets absorb the surroundings. So if you have Ni first and Se last that really is not about how all extraverts getting energy.

It is more about what makes the energy. The inside world makes the energy or the outside world makes the energy.

So Fi makes too much internal energy that Ne and Te absorbs.
But Ni creates too much energy that SeFe has created, that is true for any introvert. (The Ti and Si as well)

In the Extravert the Introverted functions are weaker, make less internal energy so the Extraverted function can balance absorbing it from outside.

Ni then, blocks out what it has already created. Even with Fe
But Fe is less people reactive than Fi which created to much for the Fi type to deal with people in the first place.

Fi types can become non reactive but it takes a real effort in directing the internal energies involved.

 

[Asa]

The Blue Zen Brain (INFJ/INTJ)​

There are many intriguing findings in The Neuroscience of Personality, Dr. Dario Nardi’s book that reveals neural correlates associated with psychological type and personality. The macro or whole-brain data are particularly interesting because they describe an overall brain state. Studying specific brain regions in relation to type also yields some compelling findings. Still, whole brain states reflect a different level, one where the brain is fully engaged or excited.

What do these macro brain states look like on EEG? They are either asynchronous, one example being the Christmas Tree Brain (while engaged in transcontextual thinking), or synchronous, where all regions of the brain are working in harmony and at maximum amplitude. Nardi reports 6 colors that can appear on the EEG readout. For example, a red macro state occurs when the neocortex is hyperstimulated, such as when we have a moment of insight or see an attractive person.

Another such synchronized state features a blue colored EEG read-out and is associated with being alert and calm or performing an activity in which we have creative expertise. While technically not called The Blue Zen Brain, it does capture the essence of a calm mind. Dominant introverted intuitive personality types, specifically the INFJ and INTJ, are the most likely to achieve this state. Not only do they achieve this state when they engage in an area of expertise, they also show this pattern when tackling an unfamiliar, novel problem, and or envisioning the future. All areas of the neocortex are called to action to realize an answer. The answer is often complex and difficult to explain.

Indeed, complexity and perfectionism are often byproducts of this elegant and visionary style of problem solving. However, seeing a material world that often does not match what the mind can see can be a source of stress for INTJ and INFJ types. There will always be an ideal that lies just out of reach when the mind is capable of conceiving such a thing. Still, knowing the general tendencies of one’s mind as well as realizing that those tendencies represent one perspective out of many, is a useful point of personal insight. In this case, it can lead to strategies to accept a less than perfect outcome when the ideal is not possible.

Source



PS: I was going to link to my posts on this topic, but I can't find them (possibly in a deleted blog). Someone else posted about this in the past, too.

 

[John K]

When I was young and velociraptors roamed the earth

Ah! Those were the good old days! I remember when there were INFJ megalosauruses - just as rare then as now, and just as much liminal as now. It was easier in those days, though - life was so much simpler and the sensors were so busy living (and pigging) in the moment that there was no conflict with the big picture types.

But I go back much further than that. I remember when we crawled out of the sea for the first time. We were all INFJ in those days - people today don’t realise it, but INFJ is the original and natural type of the first life on land. It was amazing in those days - we were in a new world and we were part of it and one with it. It was so sad when other types came along and broke the symmetry and identity between self and world. But it was inevitable and necessary. There are just a few of us now, but still we sustain that symmetry and have done continuously since Cambrian times.

 

[meowzician]

But I go back much further than that. I remember when we crawled out of the sea for the first time.

LOL I bow to your greater wisdom.

 

[John K]

LOL I bow to your greater wisdom.

Alas, not greater wisdom - there's no fool like an old one .......

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