Forum Democrats: Sanders vs Clinton Post Election
- Thread starter Flavus Aquila
- Start date
Ultimately this is a question as to whether you are a party person who follows the party of your choosing's candidates no matter what, or if you are an actual liberal with the ability to think past your nose and decide what is right for your country according to your values.
I'm a Bernie supporter and the DNC's failure to pick him as the nominee led not only to a Trump presidency but also has completely torn up the Democratic Party. Ultimately I'm not too worried about it because it was time to break the two party system anyway, and although many people are saying that Clinton was the first Neocon President elect for the Democrats in a long time, this is not the case. Obama furthered Bush' administration a T and for every liberal social policy he passed, he passed things like indefinite detention. No one did anything because democrats felt "secure" with their gay marriage and health care, which was really health care plan that had been proposed by Republicans and not the Single Pay system we all deserve. Furthermore, even before Obama, we saw in the Bill Clinton administration the most obvious abuse of power for a democrat when he invented mandatory sentencing for non violent drug related offenses, which he ONLY came out and said was a mistake years later to increase the chances of his wife winning presidency. Bill was not a true democrat and the party has not seen a true liberal for a long time.
Problem is in this country, if you become too liberal and threaten the corporate status quo and the way things are, you are going to get assassinated. JFK, MLK Jr, all victims of the government's wrath to name a few.
So yeah, of course I am pissed, but I think the problem was to expect anything better from the DNC when we have a history of our democratic politicians being bought out by corporations.
Had Bernie won, he would have been assassinated, I promise you. There are reasons why Bernie didn't fight the DNC's decision- he and his family were under extreme pressure and he ultimately decided he could do a lot better being a leader in the senate and leading from social media than risking his life by really going head to head with the government. It's sad that this is the country we live in, but ultimately, the cross we have to bear.
I'm a Bernie supporter and the DNC's failure to pick him as the nominee led not only to a Trump presidency but also has completely torn up the Democratic Party. Ultimately I'm not too worried about it because it was time to break the two party system anyway, and although many people are saying that Clinton was the first Neocon President elect for the Democrats in a long time, this is not the case. Obama furthered Bush' administration a T and for every liberal social policy he passed, he passed things like indefinite detention. No one did anything because democrats felt "secure" with their gay marriage and health care, which was really health care plan that had been proposed by Republicans and not the Single Pay system we all deserve. Furthermore, even before Obama, we saw in the Bill Clinton administration the most obvious abuse of power for a democrat when he invented mandatory sentencing for non violent drug related offenses, which he ONLY came out and said was a mistake years later to increase the chances of his wife winning presidency. Bill was not a true democrat and the party has not seen a true liberal for a long time.
Problem is in this country, if you become too liberal and threaten the corporate status quo and the way things are, you are going to get assassinated. JFK, MLK Jr, all victims of the government's wrath to name a few.
So yeah, of course I am pissed, but I think the problem was to expect anything better from the DNC when we have a history of our democratic politicians being bought out by corporations.
Had Bernie won, he would have been assassinated, I promise you. There are reasons why Bernie didn't fight the DNC's decision- he and his family were under extreme pressure and he ultimately decided he could do a lot better being a leader in the senate and leading from social media than risking his life by really going head to head with the government. It's sad that this is the country we live in, but ultimately, the cross we have to bear.
@slant
Your post so clearly sums things up, beyond the limited scope of the OP question. Thank you.
The Dems really have become merely social liberals; and given that social progress has almost reached its natural limit, their social liberalism has sought to expand more vigorously into minutiae. Ultimately, they are more conservative, in respect of past advances, than real pioneers.
On the economic, and administrative fronts, they alternate between the extremely conservative, and extremely radical, with little middle ground.
I hope Trump, and the flavour he imparts on the Reps will be socially nonchalant, administratively radical/progressive, and economically savvy.
Your post so clearly sums things up, beyond the limited scope of the OP question. Thank you.
The Dems really have become merely social liberals; and given that social progress has almost reached its natural limit, their social liberalism has sought to expand more vigorously into minutiae. Ultimately, they are more conservative, in respect of past advances, than real pioneers.
On the economic, and administrative fronts, they alternate between the extremely conservative, and extremely radical, with little middle ground.
I hope Trump, and the flavour he imparts on the Reps will be socially nonchalant, administratively radical/progressive, and economically savvy.
It's hard to tell if the Clintons have been dropped like hot potatoes... it may become clearer after the recounts.
Forum libs: Who do you want to fill the Clinton void?
Forum libs: Who do you want to fill the Clinton void?
We need someone who is going to take action.
I'm sure Trump will take action, but he's far too right-winged for my tastes. Not to mention his blatant rudeness and arrogance.
We need someone who will unite the people, and connect with us on a personal level. Someone who will take action, and will speak their mind when they must.
I loved Bernie Sanders, but he wasn't willing to test himself against the Establishment Democrats.
What I'm hoping for is a JFK-like figure to come along.
In the meantime, we can try our best with the Donald to repair the damage dealt to our country, and we can try our best to work with him however we can.
If term limits were not place, there would be another term of Obama, he would have wiped the floor with Trump. I don't think there is much question about that.
The issue with Hillary was not just her message and this may have not been the primary reason she lost. She had shortcomings as a politician and these cannot be overlooked. She was not able to inspire in the way Obama was able to do so which is why she lost to Obama the first time and why she could not overcome a weak candidate like Trump. Hillary campaigned on her ability to manage not on her ability to execute a vision. This is what Trump and Obama have in common. The other they are going to have in common is that they will both frustrate their most fervent supporters because they will not be able to execute the vision they both articulated during the campaign. Trump's success or failure will be in how manages these expecations.
The issue with Hillary was not just her message and this may have not been the primary reason she lost. She had shortcomings as a politician and these cannot be overlooked. She was not able to inspire in the way Obama was able to do so which is why she lost to Obama the first time and why she could not overcome a weak candidate like Trump. Hillary campaigned on her ability to manage not on her ability to execute a vision. This is what Trump and Obama have in common. The other they are going to have in common is that they will both frustrate their most fervent supporters because they will not be able to execute the vision they both articulated during the campaign. Trump's success or failure will be in how manages these expecations.
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