Fire in London high-rise building | INFJ Forum

Fire in London high-rise building

ImaginaryBloke

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Sep 29, 2015
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-use-of-combustible-materials-in-tower-blocks

A fire in a London high-rise building killed 30 people so far. Are bad housing policy and economic inequality to blame? Or only bad housing policy?

I think principally it was allowing local councils to take charge of risk assessments. This let them sub contract the work to private companies.

The building had recently had an £8.5 million pound "renovation" with cladding which was not fire resistant. This may very well be the reason the fire spread so rapidly.

But in a building of over 20 stories, there was no central fire alarm system, no sprinkler system, and no organised evacuation plan. There's never been a fire death in a modern building in the UK with a proper sprinkler system.

This is sadly what happens when you take away regulation. Fire resistant cladding for the entire building would have cost only £5000 and between £150,000 to £200,000 for sprinklers. Why not install them ?

Because they would only have saved peoples lives, not the actual building. Business.
 
In the only article I thoroughly read about it, the article claimed the siding was put up to make the building more attractive for people in surrounding wealthy suburbs. It was not specifically stated, but this implied people who had this building in their view complained about it. If this is the case, economic inequality is certainly a factor.

This situation is so tragic. It is very hard for me to read about it.
 
In the only article I thoroughly read about it, the article claimed the siding was put up to make the building more attractive for people in surrounding wealthy suburbs. It was not specifically stated, but this implied people who had this building in their view complained about it. If this is the case, economic inequality is certainly a factor.

This situation is so tragic. It is very hard for me to read about it.

It's appalling. The govt need to immediately return control of fire risk assessments, to the Fire Service. It was done under a labour govt in 2005. Once that happened, peoples lives were going to be put at risk. The conservatives had 7 years to return the powers. Instead they cut Fire Service funding.

It's not socialism to have proper regulation. It's sanity.
 
Very sad. I dont disagree with anything that's been said here. However I do want to point out it's my understanding that this building was known to be a potential death trap. I think that the people choosing to live there are responsible for their own lives. The owners of the building are responsible to the point they broke any laws. It may be that if the laws allowed for a building like this to exist in the first place those laws need to change. If not the building owners are responsible for murder. Even so people chose to live there knowing they were taking a chance with their lives.
 
Very sad. I dont disagree with anything that's been said here. However I do want to point out it's my understanding that this building was known to be a potential death trap. I think that the people choosing to live there are responsible for their own lives. The owners of the building are responsible to the point they broke any laws. It may be that if the laws allowed for a building like this to exist in the first place those laws need to change. If not the building owners are responsible for murder. Even so people chose to live there knowing they were taking a chance with their lives.

I'm reality they were mostly poor people, with very little choice. The local residents group petitioned their council many times. They were ignored and then threatened with legal action just for protesting.

Even £5000 extra spent on fire resistant cladding would have probably saved almost all the lives lost. Forget politics it's staggering incompetence. The cladding used is illegal on high rise buildings in America and many other countries.

It was in my view criminally negligent. Not even a central fire alarm. I've never seen anything like it in the UK.
 
Even so people chose to live there knowing they were taking a chance with their lives.

I don't think they had much choice EH it was social housing and you have to take what you are offered. It does seem that the tenants repeatedly raised concerns regarding fire safety and they were not listened to.

Ah, @James, it looks like we posted at the same time and said pretty much the same thing.
 
I'm reality they were mostly poor people, with very little choice. The local residents group petitioned their council many times. They were ignored and then threatened with legal action just for protesting.

Even £5000 extra spent on fire resistant cladding would have probably saved almost all the lives lost. Forget politics it's staggering incompetence. The cladding used is illegal on high rise buildings in America and many other countries.

It was in my view criminally negligent. Not even a central fire alarm. I've never seen anything like it in the UK.
Threatened with legal action for protesting.....
Where did you get this information?
Edit...i dont know enough about how things are set up there.
 
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Well look of complaints were filed etc...and no one did their job...everyone involved is responsible. I dont know how things work over there but something didn't work and it needs to be corrected.
 
Threatened with legal action for protesting.....
Where did you get this information?
Edit...i dont know enough about how things are set up there.

Simply the local council had the responsibility. They contracted it out to a private company. Building inspectors employed there "probably" actually signed off the fire risk assessments.

But if they hadn't ? They'd almost certainly have been dismissed and replaced by one's who would. There's a wealth of evidence of the warnings, leading up to this event.

I've been a health a safety rep EH. This was unbelievable. If the residents had actually followed the frankly shambolic plans, and stayed in their flats. The death toll would have been far higher.

My advice to anyone living in tower blocks like this? Invite the local fire service for expert support and advice, and have a plan. Appoint volunteer wardens for each floor. Follow the fire service advice. Ignore anything the landlords say. Don't wait for the government. They don't give a .... about people.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/metro....ion-over-grenfell-tower-warnings-6708453/amp/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.in...uncil-contract-ignored-poor-a7789276.html?amp

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/gren...ss.com/2017/03/14/kctmo-feeling-the-heat/amp/
 
Very sad. I dont disagree with anything that's been said here. However I do want to point out it's my understanding that this building was known to be a potential death trap. I think that the people choosing to live there are responsible for their own lives. The owners of the building are responsible to the point they broke any laws. It may be that if the laws allowed for a building like this to exist in the first place those laws need to change. If not the building owners are responsible for murder. Even so people chose to live there knowing they were taking a chance with their lives.

Actually, no I disagree. This block was council housing. They were poor people with no where else to go. The council offer you a place, you take it. You don't get to choose and if you're in a position ot be in social housing you aren't in a financial position to up and move.

Edit: Sorry, I passionately posted the moment I read and then saw two others comment the same underneath. Woops!
 
Yes, the council are 100% responsible here. Cheap and unsafe materials being used on the building and no fire alarms or sprinkler systems? That has got to be illegal.
 
 
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Actually, no I disagree. This block was council housing. They were poor people with no where else to go. The council offer you a place, you take it. You don't get to choose and if you're in a position ot be in social housing you aren't in a financial position to up and move.

Edit: Sorry, I passionately posted the moment I read and then saw two others comment the same underneath. Woops!
The fact you dont get to choose is a big reason I dont like socialism. That's what it's all about. You take what you are given by the government and you don't complain.
Crazy, this is what I hate about the world. I hope heads roll and people are executed.
 
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@Eventhorizon - It wasn't socialism that weakened the fire safety regulation. :/
@James already posted about that.

If you study the poverty in London, the death rate and health issues, the housing conditions (which were far worse), and before that –the work houses, etc, you will understand why socialism was a good solution for housing and caring for the poor.
 
The fact you dont get to choose is a big reason I dont like socialism. That's what it's all about. You take what you are given by the government and you don't complain.
Crazy, this is what I hate about the world. I hope heads roll and people are executed.


Well....we don't live in socialist countries. I appreciate the fact that the country I live in (Ireland, but we have a similar set up to the UK) has social supports and protections for the vulnerable in society. I am currently waiting on social housing. I am extremely grateful that I can get this as our economy has gone through some pretty tough times and I am in a not so great position.

I understand that with such long lists and so many people needing help they can't let us choose where we live. We're getting government assistance, so we can't just demand, you know? I am grateful that there will be a roof over my head at a price I can afford.

The fact that things clearly weren't up to code is a seperate issue. I don't think it's one just facing the councils though. At least here in ireland landlords are not keeping properties up to scratch and are charging extortionate prices. People can't afford homes and if they do have homes, they can't necessarily be picky.

It doesn;t have much to do with socialism.
 
Well....we don't live in socialist countries. I appreciate the fact that the country I live in (Ireland, but we have a similar set up to the UK) has social supports and protections for the vulnerable in society. I am currently waiting on social housing. I am extremely grateful that I can get this as our economy has gone through some pretty tough times and I am in a not so great position.

I understand that with such long lists and so many people needing help they can't let us choose where we live. We're getting government assistance, so we can't just demand, you know? I am grateful that there will be a roof over my head at a price I can afford.

The fact that things clearly weren't up to code is a seperate issue. I don't think it's one just facing the councils though. At least here in ireland landlords are not keeping properties up to scratch and are charging extortionate prices. People can't afford homes and if they do have homes, they can't necessarily be picky.

It doesn;t have much to do with socialism.
Havng the government control everything to include telling you where you can live is a socialists dream.
 
The fact you dont get to choose is a big reason I dont like socialism. That's what it's all about. You take what you are given by the government and you don't complain.
Crazy, this is what I hate about the world. I hope heads roll and people are executed.

I understand what you mean about socialism, but we've had a very non socialist govt since 2010.

I think what's so hard to accept, is just the level of incompetence. There were over 120 flats over 24 floors. To have the assessments done this way was insane.

There's just no way the fire service would have accepted this. Never. And as a result people died. Use the experts, or watch the results. They need to change the law and restore their powers.

I don't want executions, but I do want the law changed, and those responsible made accountable.
 
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