Fe & Adopting Values

[Moon Pix]

I have noticed a tendency in my life to take on the values of others as my own in order to build my worldview. In the past this has tended more towards alternative subcultural figures. I remember it started rather innocuously when I got into Eminem when I was about 14 or so and took on his whole "fuck N-Sync and manufactured pop" stance as my own even though it was something Id never really thought about or been bothered by before. Following on from that and continuing through my teens and early 20s I became more interested in the alternative music scene and became somewhat more politicised and something of a lefty, taking my values from figures like Kurt Cobain and Bill Hicks. One day a few years ago I found myself reading The Communist Manifesto and could see how it was a journey that started with hearing "The Real Slim Shady" about 10 years before.

I was just wondering - is this sort of thing something that is typical of an Ni(Fe) configuration? I mean why did I gravitate towards this sort of worldview and not another one if there wasnt some intuition involved telling me that this sort of thing suited my personality? Surely if there wasnt something about the punk rock/alternative world view that made sense to me intuitively I could have gravitated towards anything - maybe if Id seen deck shoes and pastel trousers at age 14 Id have become a prep instead and ended up being responsible for the global financial crisis. This makes me think - considering that there are now so many subcultures and youth cultures in society and there isnt that much consensus between these groups, does Fe lend itself to mods vs rockers type tribalism as much as it does to accepting the standards of the larger society.

BTW - feel free to point out if it seems to you that my understanding of Fe is horribly primitive as sometimes I feel that I don't really get the MBTI. Asking questions like this allows me to refine my understanding.

 

[sassafras]

It depends where you're applying these values. If you're absorbing these values and applying them internally to yourself and rearranging your internal experience to consciously align yourself with those new values, than that is not actually an expression of Ni + Fe but Fi. If you're gaining a intuitive understanding of these values and seeing their application in the people or society around you, than that is Ni + Fe.

Ni + Fe isn't concerned with consciously analysing the self. It just does what it observes intuitively. Fi, on the other hand, is in the business of actively and consciously applying, interpreting, and rearranging the Fi-user's thoughts and emotions to the values and systems it interprets.

 

[Trifoilum]

It depends where you're applying these values. If you're absorbing these values and applying them internally to yourself and rearranging your internal experience to consciously align yourself with those new values, than that is not actually an expression of Ni + Fe but Fi. If you're gaining a intuitive understanding of these values and seeing their application in the people or society around you, than that is Ni + Fe.

Ni + Fe isn't concerned with consciously analysing the self. It just does what it observes intuitively. Fi, on the other hand, is in the business of actively and consciously applying, interpreting, and rearranging the Fi-user's thoughts and emotions to the values and systems it interprets.

What if I do both? I agreed, though.

Also; think of the other function that correlates with Fe; Ti. Which I read it as 'the elements within the values in concern'.
For instance; a huge part of preppy lifestyles are highly correlated with the value of money. Or, a huge part of artist cultures are correlated with the value of freedom of ideas / freedom in general. Then within freedom is another idea, which has another set of ideas, so on, so on... Values inside values, so to speak.

Granted, adolescence are generally an age where you tend to absorb ideas as a whole as you enrich yourself and building your values.

Another aspect might be that the relation between you and the value isn't -always-...clear. There might have been bias.
Maybe your surroundings built an idea that following value X / rebelling against value Y is good / better / cool / truer / more righteous.
Maybe there's someone you respected / liked / looked up to / crushed who has some specific value that you might see in the values you see.
Maybe you had some bad memories / experiences with value C whether consciously or subconsciously, thus you avoided it like a plague.

I dunno; it's more..complex.

 

[sassafras]

What if I do both? I agreed, though.

Also; think of the other function that correlates with Fe; Ti. Which I read it as 'the elements within the values in concern'.
For instance; a huge part of preppy lifestyles are highly correlated with the value of money. Or, a huge part of artist cultures are correlated with the value of freedom of ideas / freedom in general. Then within freedom is another idea, which has another set of ideas, so on, so on... Values inside values, so to speak.

Granted, adolescence are generally an age where you tend to absorb ideas as a whole as you enrich yourself and building your values.

Another aspect might be that the relation between you and the value isn't -always-...clear. There might have been bias.
Maybe your surroundings built an idea that following value X / rebelling against value Y is good / better / cool / truer / more righteous.
Maybe there's someone you respected / liked / looked up to / crushed who has some specific value that you might see in the values you see.
Maybe you had some bad memories / experiences with value C whether consciously or subconsciously, thus you avoided it like a plague.

I dunno; it's more..complex.

To be honest, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. Sorry. You will have to clarify for me. :S

But I will say this about Ti and Fi: functionally, they are no different. They're both in the business of de-construction for the purpose of understanding and interpreting. Anything that Ti does, Fi is capable of doing too. It's just that the currencies they deal with are different.

Ti in an INFJ is a tertiary function and its in the service of de-constructing Ni-Fe data for the purposes of advising, counselling, or teaching others. It's not applied to the self; Ni-Fe's do not need to explain the information or justify it to themselves. They already understand it and know how it works. They are exactly like INTJs in this regard. They're looking to apply the knowledge they've absorbed in a way that is exterior to themselves. That's why they're judgers. They already have the information organized internally. They just have to figure out how and where to apply it externally.

Fi and Ti dominants and auxiliaries, on the other hand, are considered perceivers for a reason.Fi (or Ti) as a dominant function has to process the information first and see where the user stands on the matter. External data is applied to them, and they're concerned with how to organize that data internally which enforce how they present themselves externally. This why sometimes perceivers tend to be a bit more self-conscious than their judging counterparts.

 

[Trifoilum]

To be honest, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. Sorry. You will have to clarify for me. :S

Ah, the point related to your post is just the first.
I do both of what you said as Fe+Ni and Fi.... hence me confused.
The rest is mostly-- ponderings.

But I will say this about Ti and Fi: functionally, they are no different. They're both in the business of de-construction for the purpose of understanding and interpreting. Anything that Ti does, Fi is capable of doing too. It's just that the currencies they deal with are different.

Ti in an INFJ is a tertiary function and its in the service of de-constructing Ni-Fe data for the purposes of advising, counselling, or teaching others. It's not applied to the self; Ni-Fe's do not need to explain the information or justify it to themselves. They already understand it and know how it works. They are exactly like INTJs in this regard. They're looking to apply the knowledge they've absorbed in a way that is exterior to themselves. That's why they're judgers. They already have the information organized internally. They just have to figure out how and where to apply it externally.

Fi and Ti dominants and auxiliaries, on the other hand, are considered perceivers for a reason.Fi (or Ti) as a dominant function has to process the information first and see where the user stands on the matter. External data is applied to them, and they're concerned with how to organize that data internally which enforce how they present themselves externally. This why sometimes perceivers tend to be a bit more self-conscious than their judging counterparts.

That makes sense /nods.