Does it feel like culture has died and there's only politics now? | INFJ Forum

Does it feel like culture has died and there's only politics now?

Discussion in 'History, Travel, and Culture' started by Sometimes Yeah, Jul 25, 2020.

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  1. Sometimes Yeah

    Sometimes Yeah Community Member

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    It's hard to find any music, art, movies, or conversations not tainted with a lot of annoying politics. It almost feels to me like a normal conversation isn't possible anymore.

    I just want the simple enjoyment of whatever is beautiful, interesting, uplifting, etc to be back without the cloud of politics hanging over everything.

    Just wondering if anyone else feels the same.
     
  2. Reason

    Reason Mostly Peaceful

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    I think politics has always been in there the only change is a complete loss of subtlety lol
     
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  3. OP
    Sometimes Yeah

    Sometimes Yeah Community Member

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    I remember having conversations about whether a mountain fortress or an island hut would be preferable... Or on the virtues of V6 over V8s. It just seems like those conversations aren't really possible anymore, on their own merits, and they get referred to overarching topics. It's exhausting.
     
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  4. slant

    slant Sedated slanty

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    I think it's an illusion caused by the 24 hours news cycle and social media that people refuse to disconnect from.

    Most people if they are away from a tv or phone for long enough revert to normal conversation about their day to day life. There's an addiction to the dopamine rush from these devices though so usually people never get unglued.

    In addition, it seems that for many people, politics is a hobby, and for some others, ideas = who you are. Which is very dangerous for obvious reasons... Human beings change their minds all the time and it doesn't lend to a very stable self image of you're never allowed to change what you believe out of fear of social reprehem.

    I don't have any reason to believe any of this is *new*, however. I think it's always existed in human society and is the result of pack think vs the individual.

    Politics are seen by many people the same way as religion in terms of a way to shape and mold society. The proverbial pulse of our communities if you will. If this is true, those who are most prone to the desire to change the world around them into what they perceive as "better" (sometimes called idealists) will flock to these structures in order to accomplish what they believe will complete/fulfill them. I don't think when people want to fix society it's as much about society as it is wanting to fix the self though the external. But that's a whole additional thread.

    The rest, the majority I would argue, don't genuinely care about these structures nor really desire to change the world but they want a sense of belonging and to be accepted. Idealists are very convincing and much of the rest of the flock falls in line behind them thoughtlessly.

    This then creates a cycle of most people pretending to care when they don't to fit in, which results in shallow understanding of the concepts that they believe in and misrepresentation on a mass scale. The confusion gets reenforced because again most people don't really care they're just hopping on the bandwagon.

    This leaves the few who do care, the idealists, in a perpetual state of rage as their perspective becomes more and more rigid and well defined to combat this lack of understanding.

    The mindless followers respond, again, by echoing the points even more poorly than originally.

    At the end of the day you have a caricature of the central message, with those two main camps: those who understand and care, and those who don't really care which leads to them never understanding.

    C'est la vie
     
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  5. Cornerstone

    Cornerstone Well-known member

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    I can only assume that by mountain fortress vs island hut you are really talking about strong government vs a more libertarian perspective.
     
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  6. Wyote

    Wyote Xenoi
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    Get better people in your life. Most people suck.
     
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  7. OP
    Sometimes Yeah

    Sometimes Yeah Community Member

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    Maybe, in chasing ideals, everything ends up crushed and ruined.

    The old saying is, don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good. It certainly holds true in parenting, where a child can be crushed under standards of perfection, which end up obliterating their love for the things they're good at. It's also disasterous in relationships, to try to perfect a partner.

    It certainly feels like people are so focused on such particular outcomes, that they are destroying everything (figuratively and literally) to get something, which would be meaningless in a landscape of ashes.
     
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  8. OP
    Sometimes Yeah

    Sometimes Yeah Community Member

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    I don't see people as disposable. Even though I'm surrounded by unpleasant people, this is where I am right now, and how can there be a sense of the family of humanity, if we get picky about who counts and who doesn't?
     
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  9. Wyote

    Wyote Xenoi
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    I didn't say get rid of anyone, I said get better people, they'll supply you with sanity
     
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  10. Pin

    Pin "Magnificent Bastard" / Ren's Counterpart

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    Well, if you don't like politics then go make your country's politics better. There's people without healthcare, housing, and the basic necessities of life and you've got the privilege to whine about how much you hate hearing about it.

    Stop ignoring your duty as a citizen and stand for something.
     
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  11. OP
    Sometimes Yeah

    Sometimes Yeah Community Member

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    I'm not privileged, unless being homeless most of the time with a disability is privilege. You seem nasty.
     
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  12. Pin

    Pin "Magnificent Bastard" / Ren's Counterpart

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    You're damn right I'm nasty.

    Politics matter, deciding on the right policies to serve the public is one of the more important, if not one of the most important duties we have as citizens.

    I'm sorry about your disability and housing situation but if it were up to me you would not experience such needless suffering.

    I want the best for you, I want the best for everyone.
     
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  13. OP
    Sometimes Yeah

    Sometimes Yeah Community Member

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    The best thing for everyone is when everyone treats everyone else with some compassion and respect. I think politics doesn't help that, and actually damages people's connection with others. I think your politics might be making you aggressive and detached from real people.

    I don't want help. Help is patronising, and the last thing I want is a patron. I just want to enjoy life, and it's hard to enjoy it, when people are more interested in their politics than they are in being civil to each other.
     
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  14. Pin

    Pin "Magnificent Bastard" / Ren's Counterpart

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    Politics is practical.

    I want the potholes on the damn road fixed. I want public schools to be properly funded. Disaster relief, properly funded, etc. Ultimately, the outcome of what government does is political.

    I don't care if you as an individual don't want help. There's millions of people who need help. You're damn right I'm aggressive.

    This isn't the 1980s where we can pretend that Democrats and Republicans are the same and your choice of political party is as benign as what ice cream flavor you like.

    I want tangible improvements in our political system as a matter of principle and we're not going to get there by sitting on the sidelines getting offended at someone's tone.

    Continue to serve your country and vote.
     
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  15. OP
    Sometimes Yeah

    Sometimes Yeah Community Member

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    To me that sounds like living in a mansion filled with horrible people. Anyhow, why, in a world where most people barely have shelter, food, and clothes, would you be so agressive seeking perfect roads, and guilded schools? Is it beneath you to live a little closer to how most people on this earth live, and to strive to bring a little peace and friendliness into the equation?

    From the parties you mentioned, it sounds like you live in the US. You have the highest standards of living in the world, yet you're angry you don't have more? It sounds like some sort of affliction of the haves.
     
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  16. slant

    slant Sedated slanty

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    I relate a lot to what you're saying to the point that I'm a little sketched out by it because it feels like you're digging around in my own head and verbalizing my thoughts. I feel much the same as you do here. A problem I have in my blog is that sometimes I'll be explaining an issue I'm having with a person and I'm just trying to work it out or give others a chance to relate and people will come in and villainize the person. I think I dig you vibe here, it's like, a lack of nuance in thought, people come down really hard on one side or the other and don't stop to think that everything's really complicated and maybe there is not a right answer nor a solution.

    However in this case I think wyote was trying to make the point that the people you surround yourself with heavily influence you. For example, I did used to have friends whose main focus was politics but because I moved on and started focusing on my art my friend set shifted to something that compliments me better. I don't think he meant to dismiss people. Wyote if all people on this forum falls in line with tolerance of ideas; he's not one of those "cut off their heads!" Types. Maybe he should have stressed he meant to make more friends who you have common interests with but not necessarily get rid of any only friends. Does that make sense? Expand your horizons.

    I relate to this too. Again straight from my head! You scare me (in a good way). We have lots of generalizing in society from politics that come accross as "ALL people from this group think this and want this" and the lack of nuance or honesty about the fact that no, some people who are part of that identity or group of people feel differently, can make you feel isolated and not heard. I think that's what makes it frustrating when people think they are doing good and saving others or making society better when you feel like you're not being heard, you're being generalized because of a loud group of people who are monopolising power. And @Pin 's solution to this is to go and get the power yourself which makes sense on an intellectual level, but maybe you don't *want* that power.

    I relate a lot to just wanting to live a simple life with my friends and family and do the best I can in my day to day life to nurture myself and those around me. That is just how I am. I have been frustrated as I lean into who I am that my friends want to bring up politics, want to have these heated discussions about something I have no real power to change nor do I want to. What I recently realized is that they're not talking about politics at all; they're talking about their feelings. They're talking about their own fear, their own hopelessness, their lack of control, and using the system of politics or religion or whatever it is as a springboard to illustrate their pain. Many of them also think that using politics or religion will help them to solve that pain. But as a spiritual person (different from religious), I realize that only the self can heal the self and when we are fixated on a system as the source of our pain and the only way our pain goes away is to change that system we are externalizing and not taking personal accountability.

    Not everyone uses politics in this way, but many people. And I do think it's natural for human beings to focus on the community to some degree because we want to survive and so we are looking to maintain balance and harmony. As technology has progressed the scale of what we can look at though has zoomed out, so you have people in different countries protesting something that happened in another country and it becomes very abstract and disconnected from what we can actually change. Whereas if you went down to your homeless shelter and donated that would have a big impact, focusing on such huge issues as an individual the reality of our influence is slim.

    Again, though, that's why many people chose to focus on big issues instead of their local community. They don't actually want to get involved and do the work; they are looking for a way to express their feelings.
     
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  17. mintoots

    mintoots hematopoietic

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    This rings true with me. I think that when society is indifferent to governance and its underlying politics, it will easily be taken over by people with self serving agenda. It's important to be on the lookout for that and being in the conversation alone can change societies. This is why democracy is valuable. Being able to talk about politics should not be underestimated. While authoritarian societies do have some semblance of order to them, which I also appreciate to a certain degree, too much authority can easily impede the livability of the state. To be in touch with what is going on with governance is important. Although I agree that it doesn't have to be the main frame of the conversation all the time.
     
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  18. noisebloom

    noisebloom theory conspirer
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    There's some "standard" out there that determines whether a country is considered "developed". If I recall correctly, the U.S. just barely met the mark, not having many of the structures in place that other developed countries have. This is just one example of something people here are angry about.

    I'm not really a fan of anger myself (it inhibits one's prefrontal cortex), but I will say that there's nothing wrong with being discontent. In fact, if I were completely content, I would feel purposeless. Wanting to change things helps motivate, and the world could certainly use more changemakers.
     
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  19. OP
    Sometimes Yeah

    Sometimes Yeah Community Member

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    I don't think people should be complacent or negligent about wanting to improve their society. However, it just seems like people become so focused on the politics of society, that everything which makes a society pleasant to live in is destroyed or neglected: arts, entertainment, civility.

    Is it really an improvement to achieve some improvement, while simultaneously obliterating every relationship? In a household it would be like getting the children into Harvard, having no debts, and enjoying complete financial security, but alienating every member of the family, so that no one can bear to see each other in the process.

    Has the family's situation improved if what's left is a sham?

    Some things are worth sacrificing, like one's comfort and pride, to benefit those one loves. But it seems politics sacrifices the love of one's fellow citizens, for some lesser perks.
     
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  20. noisebloom

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    Politics concerns the very things you are discussing: arts, entertainment, relationships. The way the world is governed affects everything, so it's incredibly important. If was of no concern to people, then who is to say that the powers that be wouldn't inhibit art, entertainment, and your relationships? This is why people care about politics, i.e. because it affects them.

    I completely agree that someone shouldn't allow political discussion to have a negative impact on what they find important, but if that's happening, there is a deeper issue... It's not the fault of politics in and of itself, it's more a problem of being inconsiderate, obsessed, unhealthy, etc.
     
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