Does being a procrastinator automatically rule out "J"

[ButterflyChaser]

I'm an INFP and I don't really procrastinate all that much. When it comes to something I need to do, I do it right away so that I have more time to lay around be lazy and play games. I hate it that people associate P with procrastination! LOL Anyhoo, I like the 16 personalities, it was the most accurate for me. I've only been typed as an INFJ a handful of times vs the billions of times typed as an INFP and I've studied up on the functions so I'm pretty confident in my type. I think it's also pretty common for an INFJ to mistype as an INTJ because of that Ni dom and also because INFJ's tend to have an equal use of and appreciation for both the rational/logic side and the emotional/artsy-fartsy side. One of my favorite INFJ's who is also on this forum often types as INTJ, which just makes me lol because she's definitely NiFe. Though I don't see a ton of Fe from you, I haven't read a ton of your posts either. I do get a Ni vibe though! But what really matters is how YOU feel about it and what YOU identify with more. Let us know!

Yeah I've wondered about it too. I'm close enough to nearly always get INFP/ INTP as my results, but when I read through the function stacks I'm a bit of a contradiction. I relate more with Ni than Ne. Figured out Fe / Fi is certainly not first in my function stack. If it were I'd be a lot quicker to recognise my emotions. I tend to disassociate from them and focus on the thought stream, except in times of stress.

I likely can do Fi, but it seems if I dwell on it for too long, it drains me. I end up feeling moody, depressed, unstable, worried about unpleasant emotions, did what I say end up upsetting x, and then second guessing myself. It is not a happy place for me to be. A tiny bit of it can be energizing, inspire self awareness, but after that, it is like eating too rich a desert. I get stomach pains/ start vomiting pain/ grow too needy and lean on people too much/needing therapy and start considering the need for antidepressants. I'm guessing an INFP has better control of this, can indulge in this area without it turning into an issue.

But if I use Fe: Step out a bit more and see how I am feeling as part of a broader scope, and observe the emotions of other people, it seems my mood stays more stable. Not to say I can't get caught up worrying about disrupting harmony and that, but I am less focused on my self and overall can take things much better. I'm not as sensitive, and I can think clearly, and not have so much emotional clutter to sort through.

At least that's what I've been observing so far for quite a while. I'm still not fully sure if I got this right. I kind of see it not unlike going through a field trying to identify animals, plants and stuff with just a narrow little book explaining just the basics and painted representations of each thing. That said thoughts and emotions are far more complex than a little description can provide.

 

[ButterflyChaser]

Yes, I can relate to this as well. I'm such a detail person I miss the big picture sometimes. But when I finish organizing one junk drawer I move to something else small to tidy, then after hours of organizing, I look around and my room is still not clean so then I jump up and do the big parts lolol. I don't do it as often as I should so the clutter stresses me out. But in the end... When all is put away and the floors are swept and the bed is made and there's nothing sticky from my 3 yr old clinging to anything... Oh MAN what a beautiful feeling! It's almost as if from it being neat and organized around me, my whole life is in order. I'm headed somewhere. Positivity. Good vibes. The works. Lol!

That's how I feel after inspection time for my apartment. Everything is all in its place. Everything tidy. The porcelain sink is shiny, glowing white and free of scuff marks. The faucets glow. The oven is clean, no residue, besides what can't be physically removed without damaging the surface. Floors shine. Bed made. Plants all in their place, watered, blooming. Laundry done and everything hung/ folded/ rolled up whatever. The manager is awestricken. Checks off everything with some flattering comment. Then the next day, when I resume living in my apartment, then it will look like that clean moment never happened.

Edited:
Anyways I saw this test thingy linked to in another thread:
http://www.keys2cognition.com/cgi/survey48.pl
The results were interesting, but certainly had the function stacks out of whack. (INFJ) But with Fi and the Ti as the 2nd function.

I took it a couple times since. The send time was even more confusing. It looked like a long string of i results with the e results compiled at the end = INTP
The third time makes more sense: INFJ with Te and Fe being reversed. Fi taking a back seat to Fe.
---
Since I am looping and not getting anything done, I'm more less posting this as a reminder to self to let it go.
I suspect when I try to use Fi, that could be what is getting me into such Ni-Ti loops. I can cognitively grasp the emotion, but not quite capture it. I feel it, but my brain registers it as confusion and that confusion gets me upset. But if I focus externally, then it clicks. I'm not feeling burdened down, having to seek external validation that my self insight is correct. It just feels more natural.

 

[ButterflyChaser]

That said, now that I feel like it is more clear that my function stack is more in line with a judger, maybe it is time to stop fooling myself into trying to be a perceiver and see if the results line up in a satisfactory way. I can always go back if the results don't work, but...

...Right now as it is, something isn't working trying to be a P. I find myself anxious, feeling out of sorts with the world, things just passing by me, and not able to do much Se, and missing out on a lot of stuff, trying to do Fi, when I just can't grasp it on an emotional level. I can grasp the thoughts, behind the emotion (Ti) to process "Fi" but the actual emotion I feel is a projection based off the Ti-Ne to understand the Fi. It seems I get in a loop trying to self discover when the process is about as clear as trying to analyze the emotions of say, someone else who I may feel close to, but not in it. More less - kind of an out of body experience, knowing it is myself I am analyzing. If I feel an emotion it happens, but it is subconsciously triggered and uncontrolled.

 

[Ginny]

I'm sorry in advance for my bluntness, I'm not feeling myself today, but there is something you need to understand. We might differ in opinion, but I think I have it on good authority that what I am saying is not bull.

I think you got something wrong there. Going by letter-dichotomy is by and large misleading. And going by functions is only a matter of stacking, since it is a representation of how your brain processes information. As such, it is what it is and doesn't change unless there is serious trauma involved. Therefore, "trying" to be "J" or "P" (and you can only be one of them) is impossible unless you want to break yourself. (Kind of an overstatement, but I think you get what I mean.) Mind over matter only goes so far, and even the INFJ "chameleon" doesn't deviate from their stack in doing so.

The keys2cognition test is also only an abstraction of your current self-assessment of your use of each function, and this is also it's inherent flaw, besides the usual problem of (mis)understanding and so on. Therefore, I gauge its accuracy at about 50%. Something else that tests cannot do is factor in issues that don't relate to your personality type.
These tests are no more than an approximation, some more likely to be correct than others, but also it has to be considered that once you have obtained a certain level of knowledge contentwise, the tests don't work anymore. However, something you can do with the test results from the cognitive functions test is factor in your issues yourself, and with enough critical self-evaluation you may be able to come to a possible conclusion.

Procrastination is something that can befall anyone at some point. It's finding the source that may indicate towards a function or mindset being the culprit. To answer the question in the title: no. "Perceivers" are said to procrastinate a lot, due to being "scatter-brained". Neither is really true, nor exclusive towards a single group of people. Something you need to consider is that both the IJs and the EPs lead with a perceiving function, and would be perceivers in the actual sense. The lettering differs for example between the MBTI and the theory of socionics, where the small letter at the end refers to the dominant function, instead of the first extraverted function. In that sense, the letters describing the MBTI personality types can be misleading. INFJs in particular may come across as judging to the outside, because our first extraverted function is Fe, but it's not our dominant function, which ultimately describes our nature or mindset.

As for finding out your type, I think I see an Ni-Se perceiving axis as well. Good luck with your further research.

 

[ButterflyChaser]

I'm sorry in advance for my bluntness, I'm not feeling myself today, but there is something you need to understand. We might differ in opinion, but I think I have it on good authority that what I am saying is not bull.

I think you got something wrong there. Going by letter-dichotomy is by and large misleading. And going by functions is only a matter of stacking, since it is a representation of how your brain processes information. As such, it is what it is and doesn't change unless there is serious trauma involved. Therefore, "trying" to be "J" or "P" (and you can only be one of them) is impossible unless you want to break yourself. (Kind of an overstatement, but I think you get what I mean.) Mind over matter only goes so far, and even the INFJ "chameleon" doesn't deviate from their stack in doing so.

I likely do have a misunderstanding. A lot of the stuff on the net is confusing/ contradictory. Plus my understanding seems to change as I write down and put my thoughts into concrete form. So what I may understand now is not set in stone. What I put in the first post has certainly changed as I gather better understanding.

That said I believe you are right. I've been trying to function as a perceiver, but it isn't working. I'm going to try work on developing Fe and were where that goes. If it goes well, I hope it will reduce the confusion I feel about stuff and myself, as well as my environment. Maybe in hopes to reduce the Ni-Ti loop rut that I get into and actually start putting that time to better use.

The keys2cognition test is also only an abstraction of your current self-assessment of your use of each function, and this is also it's inherent flaw, besides the usual problem of (mis)understanding and so on. Therefore, I gauge its accuracy at about 50%. Something else that tests cannot do is factor in issues that don't relate to your personality type.
These tests are no more than an approximation, some more likely to be correct than others, but also it has to be considered that once you have obtained a certain level of knowledge contentwise, the tests don't work anymore. However, something you can do with the test results from the cognitive functions test is factor in your issues yourself, and with enough critical self-evaluation you may be able to come to a possible conclusion.

Noticed that too, plus the random INTP it threw at me didn't make logical sense because Ni was stronger than Ti. Yes, it is a flawed test.

Procrastination is something that can befall anyone at some point. It's finding the source that may indicate towards a function or mindset being the culprit. To answer the question in the title: no. "Perceivers" are said to procrastinate a lot, due to being "scatter-brained". Neither is really true, nor exclusive towards a single group of people. Something you need to consider is that both the IJs and the EPs lead with a perceiving function, and would be perceivers in the actual sense. The lettering differs for example between the MBTI and the theory of socionics, where the small letter at the end refers to the dominant function, instead of the first extraverted function. In that sense, the letters describing the MBTI personality types can be misleading. INFJs in particular may come across as judging to the outside, because our first extraverted function is Fe, but it's not our dominant function, which ultimately describes our nature or mindset.

Thanks for your insight. Now that I (hopefully got a better understanding of it):
I suspect this may be what is going on to a degree: my time gets spent/ wasted in a Ni-Ti loop trying to process Fi through Fe. Using Fe to project how I feel into words so Ni and Ti can analyze it and put it into a language I can understand, but still missing the key part of the "F", the emotional part in translation. Because all that time is spent trying to look outward to look inward, I'm burning a lot of mental energy and time, not able to put the energy into organizing my life and my surroundings.

As for finding out your type, I think I see an Ni-Se perceiving axis as well. Good luck with your further research.

You mean an ENFJ? Could be perhaps. I see parts of myself in the function stack, but when I was researching my ENFJ story character to understand his ENTJ tendencies (when under stress/ his idealized version of self), I found myself in a Ni-Ti, loop trying to get into his head and understand his motives, etc. I see only a little of myself as an ENFJ. My sister on the other hand....

 

[Ginny]

I likely do have a misunderstanding. A lot of the stuff on the net is confusing/ contradictory. Plus my understanding seems to change as I write down and put my thoughts into concrete form. So what I may understand now is not set in stone. What I put in the first post has certainly changed as I gather better understanding.

That said I believe you are right. I've been trying to function as a perceiver, but it isn't working. I'm going to try work on developing Fe and were where that goes. If it goes well, I hope it will reduce the confusion I feel about stuff and myself, as well as my environment. Maybe in hopes to reduce the Ni-Ti loop rut that I get into and actually start putting that time to better use.



Noticed that too, plus the random INTP it threw at me didn't make logical sense because Ni was stronger than Ti. Yes, it is a flawed test.



Thanks for your insight. Now that I (hopefully got a better understanding of it):
I suspect this may be what is going on to a degree: my time gets spent/ wasted in a Ni-Ti loop trying to process Fi through Fe. Using Fe to project how I feel into words so Ni and Ti can analyze it and put it into a language I can understand, but still missing the key part of the "F", the emotional part in translation. Because all that time is spent trying to look outward to look inward, I'm burning a lot of mental energy and time, not able to put the energy into organizing my life and my surroundings.



You mean an ENFJ? Could be perhaps. I see parts of myself in the function stack, but when I was researching my ENFJ story character to understand his ENTJ tendencies, I found myself in a Ni-Ti, loop trying to get into his head and understand his motives, etc. So I see myself as an ENFJ. My sister on the other hand....

I think you are trying to do too much at once. You can't develop a function if you are not sure how you use it, and that differs depending on its location within the stack. I believe you should look for more information and develop a stable foundation before settling on a type and after that develop the functions as you see fit.

I did not make any assumptions regarding type. I have too little energy myself to do this atm, and you throw enough types around anyway. I just meant that I believe you display those functions.

 

[ButterflyChaser]

I think you are trying to do too much at once. You can't develop a function if you are not sure how you use it, and that differs depending on its location within the stack. I believe you should look for more information and develop a stable foundation before settling on a type and after that develop the functions as you see fit.

I did not make any assumptions regarding type. I have too little energy myself to do this atm, and you throw enough types around anyway. I just meant that I believe you display those functions.

Suggestions on where to look? Or I'll be exhausting myself for the rest of the night finding articles and coming to conclusions. I guess in the end whatever is happening is happening, That hasn't changed. It's my awareness of what is going on that does.

 

[Misty]

I've stumbled over this for quite a while. I have issues answering questions like "Does your home and work office look organized", Do you like schedules or plans, stick to a plan? and You like to keep options open or closure?

Home - I have better things to do with my time. If I start organizing I get stuck halfway, micro organizing tiny things that I don't get done with more important stuff. The easiest solution is to just let clutter happen. Organize just enough so I can find what I need. When I have to make my apartment clean, then I'll go into high drive, everything will be neatly in its place, things shining for just long enough to put on an impression.

Work: Can't stand clutter. I work in a retail store, so I'm (nearly) always making sure the store is tidy, free of dust bunnies hopping along the floor, products are placed in order, etc... The times I am not, then I am focused on unboxing and getting stuff put away.

Schedules: I don't set a set schedule, nor do I keep a written plan, but I do what I can to be on time with whatever meeting I go to and I expect others to be on time. But because I don't write down lists to check off I always answer "No" to those type of questions. The list I make is in my mind if I make one. More so I make a mental plan of what I want to do. If I have time, I may deviate. if not, then I remain focused.

Plans and procrastination: I am still trying to figure that one out, why I do so. I see a mental plan of whatever I am to do already finished and done in my mind. I can also see it finished and done several ways. But sometimes I get hung up because the actual process doesn't match my mental image, or I have trouble figuring out which version of the "finished" product is correct for the present task, or I have another project I am doing along side the procrastinated project and I don't have time or the mental energy to do both at the same time.


I assumed these were Perceiver traits, which lands me as a clear INFP, but as I was trying to figure out the differences between Ni and Ne and Fi vs Fe, I got stuck in a loop trying to figure out which of those is actually happening with me. It seems like if I was a true INFP, I wouldn't be stuck in an endless loop trying to figure out what I was doing, read up, and keep looking up each article trying to tick off mental boxes/ checklists in my mind. Am I gathering up external stimuli to build up my ideas, my project and storing it for future use or am I trying to validate an idea, clear confusion in my mind. As far as personal values go, I have my values, but I'm usually pretty upfront if I feel someone crossed them. If not, then I steam over it for a while and it bothers me more that I am bothered by it than the person who crossed me. Based on what I was reading in discussions this seems more INFJ like than INFP? Then again I find the variations in answers about the INFP/ INFJ very confusing overall. Some answers have it clear cut and others have it more vague. There seem to be so many contradictions.

I'm left confused. Could it be that I am misunderstanding what makes a perceiver and incorrectly assuming because I don't match all things in a question that it rules me out?

This resonates with me a lot.... I will tell you what I learned about myself, as a clear INFJ. I have overly developed Te, I just learned in a cognitive test. 100% Ni 85% Fe 75%Te and 80%Se.. In this dynamic you can see that I would as an infj normally have higher Ti than Te, but because my father was military and my mother a very controlling ENTJ, who used organizing and cleaning to control her external world, esp when stressed... I have a high Te and also find that I try to control things I cannot by hyper organizing my external environment. You on the other hand have clearly different life experiences as we all do, and thus you may be less "cookie cutter" infj in some areas. I am often late, but I also have adhd, so there is that. I do loathe being late, I feel very bad about it and it goes against my perfectionist tendencies, but in fact it is likely also why I tend to be late, trying to make sure all is done perfectly before I go.

That leads me to my next point. You sound very like me in the way that you speak on procrastination. In theory I loathe it. I hate when ppl around me procrastinate too.. I am a very go hard or go home person.. all in or all out. Buttt.. that said, INFJ's often get stuck in the "action" part of a plan. We have these mastermind ideas, these intricately designed plans in our heads, sometimes on paper, but our perfectionist tendency and our fear of not matching the picture in our goal / dream we have so intricately woven causes us to actually become frozen with fear, and we will have a tough time "carrying out" said thing. This will of course drive us mad, because INFJ's are dreamers AND doers... so now we are kicking ourselves for not being able to make the final step to bring our dream / plan into fruition. Make sense? I have this alllll the time.. . You are not alone. This does not make you a "P".

You sound a little you might also have a higher Te than most infj, like myself. But I assure you my Fe is so overpowering there is no way I am an INFP lol. I relate to every INFJ meme and explanation I have read, save for some small aspects like "never being late" or "not procrastinating" aka: getting stuck in the final step of a plan out of perfectionist fear that the plan won't go as perfectly as expected...

I do not have this feeling when I read about INFP'S. Though INFP's are awesome in my opinion and a very close cousin to us in many ways, especially in their signs and symbol seeing sort of ways and their depth. You can very much be an INFJ who is late or not perfectly scheduled or organized as you can see, because many other factors besides our MBTI are at play in what makes each of our little quirks as human beings.. It is the main functions that make an INFJ, in the sense that we feel deeply we relate to the core things that make an INFJ, if that made any sense to you..

PS... I just noticed that you are also an INFJ 4w5 possible T like me... this all makes more sense now too. There is another factor the turbulence, that make us late at times or disorganized or to seem like we "procrastinate" when really we are just stuck in fear to pull the final trigger on our own perfect little plans.

 

[ButterflyChaser]

This resonates with me a lot.... I will tell you what I learned about myself, as a clear INFJ. I have overly developed Te, I just learned in a cognitive test. 100% Ni 85% Fe 75%Te and 80%Se.. In this dynamic you can see that I would as an infj normally have higher Ti than Te, but because my father was military and my mother a very controlling ENTJ, who used organizing and cleaning to control her external world, esp when stressed... I have a high Te and also find that I try to control things I cannot by hyper organizing my external environment. You on the other hand have clearly different life experiences as we all do, and thus you may be less "cookie cutter" infj in some areas. I am often late, but I also have adhd, so there is that. I do loathe being late, I feel very bad about it and it goes against my perfectionist tendencies, but in fact it is likely also why I tend to be late, trying to make sure all is done perfectly before I go.

That leads me to my next point. You sound very like me in the way that you speak on procrastination. In theory I loathe it. I hate when ppl around me procrastinate too.. I am a very go hard or go home person.. all in or all out. Buttt.. that said, INFJ's often get stuck in the "action" part of a plan. We have these mastermind ideas, these intricately designed plans in our heads, sometimes on paper, but our perfectionist tendency and our fear of not matching the picture in our goal / dream we have so intricately woven causes us to actually become frozen with fear, and we will have a tough time "carrying out" said thing. This will of course drive us mad, because INFJ's are dreamers AND doers... so now we are kicking ourselves for not being able to make the final step to bring our dream / plan into fruition. Make sense? I have this alllll the time.. . You are not alone. This does not make you a "P".

You sound a little you might also have a higher Te than most infj, like myself. But I assure you my Fe is so overpowering there is no way I am an INFP lol. I relate to every INFJ meme and explanation I have read, save for some small aspects like "never being late" or "not procrastinating" aka: getting stuck in the final step of a plan out of perfectionist fear that the plan won't go as perfectly as expected...

I do not have this feeling when I read about INFP'S. Though INFP's are awesome in my opinion and a very close cousin to us in many ways, especially in their signs and symbol seeing sort of ways and their depth. You can very much be an INFJ who is late or not perfectly scheduled or organized as you can see, because many other factors besides our MBTI are at play in what makes each of our little quirks as human beings.. It is the main functions that make an INFJ, in the sense that we feel deeply we relate to the core things that make an INFJ, if that made any sense to you..

PS... I just noticed that you are also an INFJ 4w5 possible T like me... this all makes more sense now too. There is another factor the turbulence, that make us late at times or disorganized or to seem like we "procrastinate" when really we are just stuck in fear to pull the final trigger on our own perfect little plans.

Thanks, What you said makes complete sense. For me, my upbringing, my mom is either a very strong INFP who believes herself to be an INFJ or she is an INFJ whose life experiences led her to distrust the Fe aspect of her personality so much that she is (even to this day) is reading books and stuff with how to cut it off and "find herself". At some point she hated this "people pleasing" part of herself and developed a strong FI, and that is what she impressed on both my younger sister and I growing up. More less, she encouraged us to talk about our own emotions and try to find out where we stood with our beliefs and try to line them up with her own beliefs.

But try as I may, I just can't get the super passionate emotional aspect. I have my strong beliefs, but in a debate, I am more interested in asking things related to their side and more less say what it takes to draw it out from them. I can listen and enjoy people sharing beliefs that I don't agree with. I'm not up to pressuring them to change. That's their sense of self. That is unless I feel it is doing harm for either them or other people, then I speak up, quite vocally. I have a degree of emotional detachment when relating to myself. I'm an outsider looking in. Believing I was an INFP, I thought that was a flaw, so I might have deliberately tried to work on those traits to suppress it to a degree.

I am also on the autism spectrum, which may have a lot to do with developing Fi as well as a higher degree of Si. I had to, because before I could talk (around age 3-5) my "self" was just an experience with floating hands. I could clearly see other people, their faces, eyes, but found it strange I couldn't see mine. My thoughts just kind of happened and I thought that was how to communicate externally. That whatever thoughts I had, could be read by everyone. They say with autism, developing theory of mind and understanding other people is a weakness. I wouldn't rule out my mother being undiagnosed. Both of us have comorbid anxiety and depression.

On the autism part: I suspect I had to develop Fi and Si, to build up enough mental internal database to relate to others. Once I built up that "language" then Fe could take over and work more efficiently.

I put this theory to the test at work yesterday. I wanted to see if I really do have Fe in my function stack. There's a big event going on locally, near where I work. I'm faceblind (unless I meet someone enough to remember their face) and not much interested in sports or celebrities. I suspect that is one reason why they put me in a store where if there would be celebrities, sports players entering, it would be my store (to pick up convenience goods on the way to the hotel nearby.). My honest opinion: I am not crazy about it, but I see the importance of it. After all the whole town has been really working hard to get things done (construction, building restoration, gather enough police and military, etc) But it is all a change in my routine for the next week. It could happen in any town and I wouldn't care, but I understand those that are excited, enough to come up with a plan how to respond.

I came up with a goal and that was to see if I can spot those working at the event, those playing/ performing at the event, regular workers, local people working, and regular shoppers.

I'd ask each person if they were excited. Gage how they responded. Found categories between "Wow, yes I am so excited," with a less than exicited tone of voice. Those that are excited and eager to tell me what they want to win at said game. Those who are not excited at all and willing to admit it. Those that are excited, but don't want to tell me. Those that are indifferent, one way or the other.
I had some fun teasing by talking about the weather. It was kind of amusing seeing their reaction to , "You know it is going to get even colder outside." and then watch their face fall, until they'd say something like "Oh it is inside..." and then watch their look of relief.

I also found it interesting how doing just a few questions got people to open up and talk more about themselves. I need to do that more. I guess I was letting fear, anxiety and stuff hold me back.) That said, I was still very happy at the end of my shift to get back to my alone time.

 

[Misty]

Thanks, What you said makes complete sense. For me, my upbringing, my mom is either a very strong INFP who believes herself to be an INFJ or she is an INFJ whose life experiences led her to distrust the Fe aspect of her personality so much that she is (even to this day) is reading books and stuff with how to cut it off and "find herself". At some point she hated this "people pleasing" part of herself and developed a strong FI, and that is what she impressed on both my younger sister and I growing up. More less, she encouraged us to talk about our own emotions and try to find out where we stood with our beliefs and try to line them up with her own beliefs.

But try as I may, I just can't get the super passionate emotional aspect. I have my strong beliefs, but in a debate, I am more interested in asking things related to their side and more less say what it takes to draw it out from them. I can listen and enjoy people sharing beliefs that I don't agree with. I'm not up to pressuring them to change. That's their sense of self. That is unless I feel it is doing harm for either them or other people, then I speak up, quite vocally. I have a degree of emotional detachment when relating to myself. I'm an outsider looking in. Believing I was an INFP, I thought that was a flaw, so I might have deliberately tried to work on those traits to suppress it to a degree.

I am also on the autism spectrum, which may have a lot to do with developing Fi as well as a higher degree of Si. I had to, because before I could talk (around age 3-5) my "self" was just an experience with floating hands. I could clearly see other people, their faces, eyes, but found it strange I couldn't see mine. My thoughts just kind of happened and I thought that was how to communicate externally. That whatever thoughts I had, could be read by everyone. They say with autism, developing theory of mind and understanding other people is a weakness. I wouldn't rule out my mother being undiagnosed. Both of us have comorbid anxiety and depression.

On the autism part: I suspect I had to develop Fi and Si, to build up enough mental internal database to relate to others. Once I built up that "language" then Fe could take over and work more efficiently.

I put this theory to the test at work yesterday. I wanted to see if I really do have Fe in my function stack. There's a big event going on locally, near where I work. I'm faceblind (unless I meet someone enough to remember their face) and not much interested in sports or celebrities. I suspect that is one reason why they put me in a store where if there would be celebrities, sports players entering, it would be my store (to pick up convenience goods on the way to the hotel nearby.). My honest opinion: I am not crazy about it, but I see the importance of it. After all the whole town has been really working hard to get things done (construction, building restoration, gather enough police and military, etc) But it is all a change in my routine for the next week. It could happen in any town and I wouldn't care, but I understand those that are excited, enough to come up with a plan how to respond.

I came up with a goal and that was to see if I can spot those working at the event, those playing/ performing at the event, regular workers, local people working, and regular shoppers.

I'd ask each person if they were excited. Gage how they responded. Found categories between "Wow, yes I am so excited," with a less than exicited tone of voice. Those that are excited and eager to tell me what they want to win at said game. Those who are not excited at all and willing to admit it. Those that are excited, but don't want to tell me. Those that are indifferent, one way or the other.
I had some fun teasing by talking about the weather. It was kind of amusing seeing their reaction to , "You know it is going to get even colder outside." and then watch their face fall, until they'd say something like "Oh it is inside..." and then watch their look of relief.

I also found it interesting how doing just a few questions got people to open up and talk more about themselves. I need to do that more. I guess I was letting fear, anxiety and stuff hold me back.) That said, I was still very happy at the end of my shift to get back to my alone time.

I think my son who is four is on the autism spectrum. He is overly developed cognitively, as in he can build tiny intricate star wars lego kits without looking at directions since age three... sets made for 12 year olds.. But he seems distant in ways. Like you are talking to him but it's not always getting through.. He is very affectionate and looks me in the eyes etc, but his father (my ex) and I have adhd and high intelligence supposedly so it is hard to tell yet if maybe he is just gifted with adhd and that is the source of the behavior. He is getting to be more of a handful too, so I get what you are saying about the autism affecting your Fe. Makes so much sense as his Fe seems quite on and off...He is always glued to me, wants to sleep with me even, and the teacher is watching for autism as well as they noted it too as a possibility and high intelligence, but with this comes often extremely cuddly and sometimes very distant affection from him, like a cat. I'm not sure what to think yet, but I see his Fe waver a lot.

I think your experiment was very smart... You should perform it again, and others. Of course you wanted to be alone after, if you are an introvert then you are always ready to be alone after so many interactions with people!

My motto most days lol, (except that part of me that wants to save people)

 

[ButterflyChaser]

I think my son who is four is on the autism spectrum. He is overly developed cognitively, as in he can build tiny intricate star wars lego kits without looking at directions since age three... sets made for 12 year olds.. But he seems distant in ways. Like you are talking to him but it's not always getting through.. He is very affectionate and looks me in the eyes etc, but his father (my ex) and I have adhd and high intelligence supposedly so it is hard to tell yet if maybe he is just gifted with adhd and that is the source of the behavior. He is getting to be more of a handful too, so I get what you are saying about the autism affecting your Fe. Makes so much sense as his Fe seems quite on and off...He is always glued to me, wants to sleep with me even, and the teacher is watching for autism as well as they noted it too as a possibility and high intelligence, but with this comes often extremely cuddly and sometimes very distant affection from him, like a cat. I'm not sure what to think yet, but I see his Fe waver a lot.

I think your experiment was very smart... You should perform it again, and others. Of course you wanted to be alone after, if you are an introvert then you are always ready to be alone after so many interactions with people!

My motto most days lol, (except that part of me that wants to save people)

One place you may want to look into is wrongplanet to get a perspective of those on the spectrum to help understand your son and help him understand himself. I don't know if he struggles with this, but it was for me a milestone when I realized what I thought in my head was internal to me and only me. After making that realization it made it less confusing to understand why people just don't get it if I didn't tell them. After making that realization, then I could figure out each person has their own internal thoughts. Theory of mind exercises and role playing helped a lot. That way I got a baseline to go bny, a template to follow.

Your son may or may not relate: Language: verbal and written is not my first language. I think in a series of images, scenes, animated movie clips, past memories, mental visual images/ movies I play of the future. I then translate that to an internal verbal monologue. From that monologue I figure out what part of it to speak or to write.

Two possible ways to describe this thought system:

1. A Roleplay game with multiple choice questions to ask an NPC (whoever I meet). I see a list of possible sentences and questions to ask. Each one generates a different mental-visual reaction/ consequence. I play that in my mind as a movie. Visualizing possible answers/ reactions, and then plan what to respond.
I factor in emotions. How each action is going to make me feel and the person I am interacting with. Since I desire stability, my go to strategy is to have a peaceful outcome. But if no peaceful outcome can be found, I'll either walk away or try to assert further.
2. A flow chart. Each thought with several offshoots from that. If I do this, then what will happen next? Chart the outcomes. Pick the best one to fit for the person and the context.

At times of stress, this system can go haywire, and I can be frozen up unsure which action is the best. Thus the procrastination. Especially if one of the options, the best one calls for action I can't devote the time for at the moment. I'll put it off, in part because I know the action, but I can't devote to it. At times like that I am better just saying no, and I do sometimes if I clearly see it head on.

See if your son relates to this or if he right now is where I was at age 4: Age 4 I switched between two modes of thinking: 1. Fe mode: I assumed everyone knew what I was thinking, that my thoughts weren't private. They were shared thoughts of the collective. There was no need to express myself, because everyone knew them. If people didn't know, it was confusing. 2. Fi mode: I assumed my experience was entirely unique to me, that people around me were just images, part of the environment. They interacted with me if I interacted with them, but they weren't part of me.
I'd switch from one mode to the other quite readily. By asking more questions and gaining a degree of self awareness, that helped generate balance, and understanding. Knowing this you can probe him for questions like if he thinks he is the only person who can't see his own face, or if he can tell each person has this experience.

If he answers something along the lines like I experienced at age 4, it may be wise to ask about autism as a possibility.

 

[Misty]

One place you may want to look into is wrongplanet to get a perspective of those on the spectrum to help understand your son and help him understand himself. I don't know if he struggles with this, but it was for me a milestone when I realized what I thought in my head was internal to me and only me. After making that realization it made it less confusing to understand why people just don't get it if I didn't tell them. After making that realization, then I could figure out each person has their own internal thoughts. Theory of mind exercises and role playing helped a lot. That way I got a baseline to go bny, a template to follow.

Your son may or may not relate: Language: verbal and written is not my first language. I think in a series of images, scenes, animated movie clips, past memories, mental visual images/ movies I play of the future. I then translate that to an internal verbal monologue. From that monologue I figure out what part of it to speak or to write.

Two possible ways to describe this thought system:

1. A Roleplay game with multiple choice questions to ask an NPC (whoever I meet). I see a list of possible sentences and questions to ask. Each one generates a different mental-visual reaction/ consequence. I play that in my mind as a movie. Visualizing possible answers/ reactions, and then plan what to respond.
I factor in emotions. How each action is going to make me feel and the person I am interacting with. Since I desire stability, my go to strategy is to have a peaceful outcome. But if no peaceful outcome can be found, I'll either walk away or try to assert further.
2. A flow chart. Each thought with several offshoots from that. If I do this, then what will happen next? Chart the outcomes. Pick the best one to fit for the person and the context.

At times of stress, this system can go haywire, and I can be frozen up unsure which action is the best. Thus the procrastination. Especially if one of the options, the best one calls for action I can't devote the time for at the moment. I'll put it off, in part because I know the action, but I can't devote to it. At times like that I am better just saying no, and I do sometimes if I clearly see it head on.

See if your son relates to this or if he right now is where I was at age 4: Age 4 I switched between two modes of thinking: 1. Fe mode: I assumed everyone knew what I was thinking, that my thoughts weren't private. They were shared thoughts of the collective. There was no need to express myself, because everyone knew them. If people didn't know, it was confusing. 2. Fi mode: I assumed my experience was entirely unique to me, that people around me were just images, part of the environment. They interacted with me if I interacted with them, but they weren't part of me.
I'd switch from one mode to the other quite readily. By asking more questions and gaining a degree of self awareness, that helped generate balance, and understanding. Knowing this you can probe him for questions like if he thinks he is the only person who can't see his own face, or if he can tell each person has this experience.

If he answers something along the lines like I experienced at age 4, it may be wise to ask about autism as a possibility.

Wow.. this utterly fascinates me. It is about two am here in the Netherlands... I am an American living here currently and so I will respond properly tomorrow, but wow. Thank you truly for taking the time to talk to me also about your experience. Your in depth description really hits home and makes me very interested in what you are saying and I will be going deep into my own introvert head to ponder these things in the day when I can mentally escape the world and ponder them... I think what you have said here is really thought provoking and intelligent, to be honest. Will speak more thoughts on this tomorrow. Thank you again for sharing an in depth look at how it feels for you and of the autism spectrum experience as well...

 

[ButterflyChaser]

Wow.. this utterly fascinates me. It is about two am here in the Netherlands... I am an American living here currently and so I will respond properly tomorrow, but wow. Thank you truly for taking the time to talk to me also about your experience. Your in depth description really hits home and makes me very interested in what you are saying and I will be going deep into my own introvert head to ponder these things in the day when I can mentally escape the world and ponder them... I think what you have said here is really thought provoking and intelligent, to be honest. Will speak more thoughts on this tomorrow. Thank you again for sharing an in depth look at how it feels for you and of the autism spectrum experience as well...

You're very welcome. I'm glad to help.

 

[infinite dreams]

(INTP) My sense of procrastination is situational. In a very basic sense, I tend to procrastinate a lot more when the action in question carries considerable weight (i.e., over a "big decision," important work project, expensive purchase, etc.). I am never comfortable with this sort of stuff until I've thought about every angle I can conceive, and then gone back and double checked those, plus done outside research for additional verification. And even then I'm not always comfortable getting started with the actual process of taking the action. Often I have to give myself a push (i.e. force myself into action by consciously going past a point of no return).

On the other hand, when I have stuff that has to be done, or that I've determined in my mind "has" to be done for my life to move along smoothly, I am capable of ruthless, surgical efficiency. Some MBTI book I read (believe it was one of the A.J. Drenth books) posited that Ti-doms typically wake up every morning and compile a mental list of all the things they need to accomplish that day, and that the drive to get those things done and out of the way is exceptionally strong. This certainly holds true for me most days.

For instance, let's say I wake up on a day off work and I need to a) shop for groceries, b) do yardwork, c) get the oil changed in my car, and d) drop off a package at the post office. Once the list is compiled, I will begin to prioritize these actions and estimate the time it will take to get them done (as well as the most efficient order for doing them). Then I'll set a challenge for myself - "I want to get all this shit done by noon so the rest of my Saturday will be free for faffing around." No exaggeration - 99 times out of 100 I get everything done with time to spare. I cannot stand having obligations hanging over my head, not even self-imposed ones, so I've worked out ways to get all that crap done, over with and forgotten about so that I can get down to the real business of life, i.e. having fun and doing my own thing.

Procrastination has less to do with type and more to do with prioritization skills.
Also, when done appropriately, procrastination isn't necessarily a bad thing.

https://www.elitedaily.com/life/cul...stinate-meaning-behind-procrastination/736595

That's a great article.

Some of my co-workers probably view me as being prone to "procrastination" because I'd often rather sleep on an idea than act on it immediately (seriously, I can see the ExxJ's frustration boiling around them like an aura, it's an actual tangible thing). But that extra time to consider everything and ruminate on the options frees up my brain to derive more creative solutions. It is the essence of what makes me effective at my job.

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

Did that a lot growing up. Wore through a lot of nets.

oic
INFP

 

[Faye]

J is associated with planning, so I would associate procrastination with being J type if you spend that time trying to plan things out.

There are many reasons people procrastinate though, so it should not be conclusive.

 

[Lilithx]

I think not getting things done is unconscious/Poor Se. While not knowing how to execute ideas is Te.

Fe dominants are active in the duty of producing harmony of the people.

Te dominants are active in the duty of objective ideas by making sure they work.

Ne dominants are active because they test out opportunities & create things in the objective

& Se doms tend to everyday life such as cleaning up, getting up to go to work on time, playing sports, etc ..basically being active with reality.

If Se is our inferior, it stands to reason why we are one of the biggest procrastinators, ever . We will probably get moving if we intuit an insight or conviction of a thing but it will be in the realm of helping people. (Fe = J)

But I think NTs & NFs may be messier than other types because Njs have lower Se while NTs don't have Se at all!

Perhaps in this thread a lot of people still assume J means overall organized and planned but Je functions depend on the expertise of that specific function. Like Fe = Organization of people for appropriateness/harmony, not simply Se organization, which would speak more to being "neat" with sensory items.

 

[Lilithx]

I am almost under the impression that someone who is overwhelmed by sensory data in such a conscious fashion is either an SJ or an SP as messy rooms, being on time, sensory organization shouldn't necessarily bug INJs to that degree, (unless they are in OCD stress mode) -- since Se is inferior and glided over on a regular basis... I think the mistake comes from taking those online tests that say J = being on time, organized & close ended & P = scattered, open ended, etc... instead of studying Jungian functions. There seems to be a disconnect here. Ni doms are perceptive types.

 

[heartcore]

I am almost under the impression that someone who is overwhelmed by sensory data in such a conscious fashion is either an SJ or an SP as messy rooms, being on time, sensory organization shouldn't necessarily bug INJs to that degree, (unless they are in OCD stress mode) -- since Se is inferior and glided over on a regular basis... I think the mistake comes from taking those online tests that say J = being on time, organized & close ended & P = scattered, open ended, etc... instead of studying Jungian functions. There seems to be a disconnect here. Ni doms are perceptive types.

Agreed. Being untidy means more than just being a J, it means you're more aware of the physical environment, and being punctual means you take the appointments seriously. I'm pretty certain that being a J means you prefers closure than open-ended most of the time in your life. A J type can asks a lot of questions but then wanting to know the finite answer than for them to lead to another questions.

 

[infinite dreams]

I'm pretty certain that being a J means you prefers closure than open-ended most of the time in your life. A J type can asks a lot of questions but then wanting to know the finite answer than for them to lead to another questions.

I've found that J types are more likely to ask a lot of questions (or at least, some questions in every circumstance) because they want to be certain that the external environment is providing them with that finite answer they seek. An extroverted Judger's ("J" type's) answers derive from the external; so in general they have to ask a lot more questions to gather enough information to draw adequate conclusions.

As an Introverted Judger, I rely on my Extroverted Perceiving function (Ne) to gather the information that feeds my decision making process (Ti). Thus, I generally ask a lot fewer questions than my Te-using counterparts.