anyone seen this - Will AI seduce us ? Thought provoking stuff.
Imagine having an AI girlfriend/boyfriend.
Imagine having an AI girlfriend/boyfriend.
Defeating short term gratification
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Hi Slant , there are good books with regards to the subject matter of "short term gratification".
Im sure you would have heard of Gabor Maté - he articulates very well and connects .
His books are focused addiction..... but he goes deep into the psychology of humans and how we are all addicted to something on a some "short term gratification" angle.
There is also another author he quotes , her name is Mackenzie Phillips - She also writes books on addiction but touches on lots of angles that are correlated to escapism and false connections.
https://drgabormate.com/
Im sure you would have heard of Gabor Maté - he articulates very well and connects .
His books are focused addiction..... but he goes deep into the psychology of humans and how we are all addicted to something on a some "short term gratification" angle.
There is also another author he quotes , her name is Mackenzie Phillips - She also writes books on addiction but touches on lots of angles that are correlated to escapism and false connections.
https://drgabormate.com/
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Eliminating pleasant things from daily life is something I do.
It's almost like whatever drives one to action is stronger when it's in satisfaction deficit. Every pleasant thing somehow seems to sap my sense of momentum.
When I'm having a self indulgent time, like around Christmas and Easter, it feels like I can really relax and enjoy doing nothing. At other times I usually feel driven to get satisfaction from difficult goals and completing unpleasant tasks/activities.
It's almost like whatever drives one to action is stronger when it's in satisfaction deficit. Every pleasant thing somehow seems to sap my sense of momentum.
When I'm having a self indulgent time, like around Christmas and Easter, it feels like I can really relax and enjoy doing nothing. At other times I usually feel driven to get satisfaction from difficult goals and completing unpleasant tasks/activities.
There's a few ways we could approach this,
We could deny ourselves short-term gratification, like how SometimesYeah suggests. This may be easier if we've a low hedonic response to things, heightened discipline, or both.
We can also assign somebody or something as a taskmaster - that is, that any premature enjoyment is punished. This won't work well if punishment doesn't stick with us or we have no reliable agent to source it to.
There's also a soft approach, where rather than working against it we work with it. Like how they say 'the best work is the work you love'? that sort of thing, where it amounts to something. If it's something we consistently enjoy it adds up.
But that's the trick isn't it? is short-term gratification the problem, or is unfocused inconsistent gratification more the issue?
We could deny ourselves short-term gratification, like how SometimesYeah suggests. This may be easier if we've a low hedonic response to things, heightened discipline, or both.
We can also assign somebody or something as a taskmaster - that is, that any premature enjoyment is punished. This won't work well if punishment doesn't stick with us or we have no reliable agent to source it to.
There's also a soft approach, where rather than working against it we work with it. Like how they say 'the best work is the work you love'? that sort of thing, where it amounts to something. If it's something we consistently enjoy it adds up.
But that's the trick isn't it? is short-term gratification the problem, or is unfocused inconsistent gratification more the issue?
From personal experience I've come to realize in recent months that it does help to live in the moment a bit more than just living for the future so a healthy balance between the two is where it all works out best otherwise one just ends up being miserable until whatever has been planned comes through. To live passionless as some do is just hell and having done that in lean times is horrible, hell I haven't been out to a restaurant in like two years and a half years 
- Sep 28, 2008
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Yeah I don't think this is something to be "defeated" but it's important to recognize when you're getting too carried away with it
I believe the expression is “Everything in moderation, even moderation.”
Nah, it's “Everything in moderation, even ‘Everything in moderation, even “Everything in moderation, even ‘Everything in moderation … ’”’”
- Sep 28, 2008
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In srs, I have wondered often about how to escaping the trap of short-term gratification, also known as the hedonic treadmill. Notwithstanding the arguments about about the importance of moderation and allowing yourself the occasional indulgence, I think that far more people have the problem of capitulating too often to hedonic impulses than the opposite (which, when it does happen, might manifest as workaholism, stinginess, or insomnia/anxiety).
In my case, I seem to have a mix of both problems, actually: I am very hedonic when it comes to sexual pleasures, but very strict and stingy with regards to almost everything else. I don't drink alcohol, I rarely eat out (unless with a lover (pun intended)), I pay myself an "allowance" that I track with a spreadsheet and try to save as much money as I can. In a way, the strict areas of my life counterbalance the liberal ones, and it is easy to say that therefore I am succeeding at the moderation game. But this is probably a superficial analysis, and I would be better off if I could be more moderate in every area rather than a mix of extremes.
In terms of how to overcome hedonism, I think it takes discipline, focus, and strategy. An example of a losing strategy would be to quit cold turkey, or to try to eliminate too many pleasure streams all at once. Far better to identify one particular indulgence that you see as particularly harmful, make a plan to ramp down your use of the indulgence, and find a friend (or INFJs forum member) who can text you every day to keep you accountable.
Back in my Jesus days, we used this trick all the time in men's ministry to try to wean each other off of porn. You know, get a group chat going where every day at 11pm (prime fap time) you have to text a Bible verse, that kind of thing.
In my case, I seem to have a mix of both problems, actually: I am very hedonic when it comes to sexual pleasures, but very strict and stingy with regards to almost everything else. I don't drink alcohol, I rarely eat out (unless with a lover (pun intended)), I pay myself an "allowance" that I track with a spreadsheet and try to save as much money as I can. In a way, the strict areas of my life counterbalance the liberal ones, and it is easy to say that therefore I am succeeding at the moderation game. But this is probably a superficial analysis, and I would be better off if I could be more moderate in every area rather than a mix of extremes.
In terms of how to overcome hedonism, I think it takes discipline, focus, and strategy. An example of a losing strategy would be to quit cold turkey, or to try to eliminate too many pleasure streams all at once. Far better to identify one particular indulgence that you see as particularly harmful, make a plan to ramp down your use of the indulgence, and find a friend (or INFJs forum member) who can text you every day to keep you accountable.
Back in my Jesus days, we used this trick all the time in men's ministry to try to wean each other off of porn. You know, get a group chat going where every day at 11pm (prime fap time) you have to text a Bible verse, that kind of thing.
I know it's going to happen (is already happening?) in our lifetime but I dread it. Having an artificial someone who we can treat with lack of restraint and who isn't legally a person and has no rights is going to be awful. Think of the way many people treat pets, or machines that are far from AI. What happens when a machine can respond? "Please don't leave me. Please don't hurt me."
I sort of followed this as well, except paired with the idea of stripping away what is unnecessary. Reducing the itch that has to be scratched.
But isn't this an aspect of being? What is a person who has almost nothing they enjoy doing every day? I suppose we're talking specific material and physical satisfaction here, but when I read on the train in the morning and then in the afternoon, that is absolutely a pleasure. I feel antsy and irritable when I don't get to do that. Or when I buy a bagel for my walk to work. Getting to see clouds. Stuff that is perhaps mundane and not in the hedonic vein, but which still feels like physical experiences I have to have in order to feel satisfied with the day.
So while I agree that excess in sex, work, substances, etc. are no good, we simply find other ways to scratch the itch. It's a matter reorganizing the brain a bit to feel satisfied with whatever we think is less harmful.
But yeah we're on the same page. A gradual reduction and substitution process works well.
To me, this is just evidence that you are well adapted and/or haven't fallen prey to the hedonic treadmill. When I'm in good mental health, I enjoy those kinds of simple things, but when I am doing poorly, I seem to require more "extreme" stimulus, e.g. porn, in order to feel a bit of satisfaction, and the satisfaction is transient and empty. So what I meant by "ramp down" your indulgences—and I think you did understand me correctly here, but to say it in different words—is to really "ramp toward" these kinds of pleasures that are always available to me, like the beauty of nature and silence, rather than the external things like dessert.
The hedonic treadmill is really something when you are a high-libido demisexual Ne-dom with severe ADHD for which you are prescribed dextroamphetamine sulfate.
Just Sayin’,
Ian
Just Sayin’,
Ian