Can you engineer a personality? | INFJ Forum

Can you engineer a personality?

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by ReasonEnduring, Feb 24, 2020.

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  1. ReasonEnduring

    ReasonEnduring Community Member

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    My degree is in Artificial Intelligence and Cybernetics.

    I have a rather indepth knowdleg about AI work and their 'construction' is very similar to how a human brain learns.

    Now AI are quite dumb right now and can only learn basic things, but the principles could theorectically be applied to humans.

    In short, if you are aware of your actions interacting with a child, can you deliberately engineer a desired personality into a child?

    (Assuming you are aware of the child's genetics and can consider how to account for expected condtitions/traits associated with the child's ancestors).
     
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  2. MoonFlier

    MoonFlier Permanent Fixture

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    Nope. Nature will always find a way to circumvent control. (Source: I raised 3 very different children.)

    Edited to remove noise.
     
    #2 MoonFlier, Feb 24, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  3. BritNi

    BritNi Perceptive Optimist

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    It's happened. It's happening. It will happen.


    Movies don't lie. Lol
     
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  4. ruji

    ruji Well-known weirdo

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    You can't manufacture a personality on top of your current one as some layer you can just peel off like nothing has happened. You can try, but people will see through it whether immediately or eventually. You have to actually become something else, which I do think is possible, but it's difficult.
     
  5. Lady Jolanda

    Lady Jolanda Corrupt AF.
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    Not in the way the blank slate crowd proposed it, no.
    The "problem" with social rearing is that you can only work with what's already there.

    You can abuse a child to cause dissociation in parts of the child's personality, but that only deletes parts of the personality and doesn't add to it, and it's not specific enough.
    You can use Pavlov conditioning on a child, but that would just cause (generalized) phobia's and changes in behavior, not the underlying personality. It's also not permanent as it can be extinguished.

    Theoretically you can alter the child's genetics to change its personality. (The technology isn't there yet, but this route would actually work.)
     
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  6. Maikl Jexocuha

    Maikl Jexocuha Ла Фагмакфа!
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    100% Yes...this is so often overlooked, and people take a lot for granted.
     
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  7. OP
    ReasonEnduring

    ReasonEnduring Community Member

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    I was refering more to taking a new born child and shaping their life to get a specific personality rather than changing a grown adult.

    That said, you could probably manipulate events to tweak an existing personality but as you say, its a bit more difficult.


    By blank slate crowd I presume you mean people who believe that humans are born with no inherent programming?

    I believe humans can be programmed to a certain extent. Children learn things like racism, prejudice, faith and fears from a young age. How they view the world is very much shaped by their childhood.

    If they can be taught that then why not other parts of the their personality?

    Now I agree some of a person's personality may be genetic. There are links between certain genes and tendency towards violence. Other elements might be encoded as well. Greater study of the genome will make a level of control at the DNA level possible.

    The pre-birth structure of the brain, experiences in the womb such as the emotions of the mother etc. can be controlled. If the mother experiences fear does cause the child to develop more anxiety/paranoia/withdrawn personality elements (something I personally believe to be true).

    Now you can't control EVERYTHING a child sees and experiences (unles you lock them in a room) but you can limit the exposure of undersirable influences much like a parent trying to keep their child way from the school bully.

    I'm still waiting for my hoverboard damnit.

    The effects on a child have far greater ramifications than people often believe. You want a better society, take care of your damn kids properly, even if they aren't genetically yours, doesn't matter. Bad experiences makes damaged children that makes criminals. Healthy happy children makes happy health productive members of society.
     
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  8. grimm

    grimm cRaYoLo CYKA BLYAT

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  9. OP
    ReasonEnduring

    ReasonEnduring Community Member

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    That's more programming instructions rather than a personality. Only works on the weak willed as well.
     
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  10. grimm

    grimm cRaYoLo CYKA BLYAT

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    if you alter the original program.. how aint that not like altering personality? only the weak willed? i suppose it depends on the intensity of the program. I'd bet you could be broken as well
     
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  11. OP
    ReasonEnduring

    ReasonEnduring Community Member

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    Personality is different from machine instructions. Personality is what makes you laughe, how you react to opinions, philosophical quesitions etc.

    Regardlless of your personality everyone can pick up a cup. Everyone can carry a box. Everyone can open a door. (Physical impairment not withstanding).

    MKUltra was designed to program people to become unknowing sleeper agents.

    Sure you can break people, but then they are usually useless as they are either too damaged to perfom basic tasks (cowering in terror) or they are too obvious in public (twitches in public etc.)

    MKUltra was to manually override programming so people would not be aware they had been programmed but could carry out a task.

    Only around 10% of the population are vunerable to the psychological 'hacks' that MKUltra found to exploit. The vast majority can be hacked to a small amount (see onstage magicians and the 'think you're a chicken'), but you can't get people to hurt themselves or commit murder. There is 10% who's mind can be overriden to an extent they can fired a loaded gun at a target on command, but its such a small section of the population and its such a niche case its not worth significantly investing in.

    As for myself... hypnosis and other mind hacks don't work on me because I'm too conscious of reality. Tried several times never worked. Too grounded in reality.
     
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  12. grimm

    grimm cRaYoLo CYKA BLYAT

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    I do believe humans come pre programmed somewhat though.. a connection to the source code thats pure.. a basic sense of wrong and right.. aint no child born racist.. I believe it also carries the essence of our reincarnated soul..

    they may seem useless to you.. but sure their handlers have a purpose for them..

    only 10%? I find that hard to believe.. I'm quite sure I could abuse the heck out of you and split your personality hypothetically speaking..

    I think you can get people to commit murder and/or commit suicide if your wicked enough and done enough research and are persistent enough

    you make yourself sound like a god..
     
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  13. OP
    ReasonEnduring

    ReasonEnduring Community Member

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    Splitting your personality doesn't get you an obediant puppet though. Thats the aim of MKUltra. Breaking humans are useless if you can't make use of them.

    Look at Reek from Game of Thrones. Yes he was broken, but in the real world he'd be far too obvious as an agent. His muttering and twitching would set off alarm bells. Plus he could just have easily run (which he eventually did). Not a reliable agent.

    Governments want people who look 100% normal up until the moment their programming triggers. Thats the difficult bit.

    You have 10% who if you hack them will sit in a bath of ice water until their organs shut down if you don't stop them. They are told 'you are not cold' and they believe it because their brain supresses the senses warning them of the cold. This doesn't affect 90% because when you are cold, you KNOW you are cold.

    You can't just research and do that. You can make small subtle shifts sure, but only on the weak willed and only if done correctly. The strong willed will do what they want and even if you tell them to jump off a bridge they won't. You'd need to fully isolate a person and break them down, but even then you end up with a wild beast and not a useful agent.

    I'm not pretending to be a god. Just paranoid beyond reason. I don't trust anyone or anything. Psychological hacks depend on a participants willingness, its not something that can be forced. My unreasonable paranoia means I don't trust any programming, including my own on occassion...
     
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  14. grimm

    grimm cRaYoLo CYKA BLYAT

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    this thread wasnt about the perfect agent but about engineering a personality

    a bath of ice water? surely you could alter the program to match the individual and/or circumstances..

    well some people have the power to fully isolate other folks

    I dont agree that psychological hacks depend on participants willingness always.. just imagine you were born into an evil household and were conditioned from birth
     
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  15. OP
    ReasonEnduring

    ReasonEnduring Community Member

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    That's the point I'm making.

    You mentioned MKUltra so I just explained why MKUltra was an agent creation program not a personality reprogramming one.

    Yes you can alter an indvidual's mental make up if you control a person's environment, going down to the personality level if the conditions are right (IE if they are a child with no inherant programming).
     
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  16. grimm

    grimm cRaYoLo CYKA BLYAT

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    I do think we all come programmed somewhat though
     
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