Arrogant vs Shy Narcissist Comparation
- Thread starter LucyJr
- Start date
I think the shy narcissist type has much less proclivity towards malignant NPD and general toxicity. They are more pathetic and do less damage. The shy narcissist seems to be more overtly exhibiting narcissistic injury, and I am guessing would be a better candidate for getting help with their personality disorder. Having dealt with severe NPD abuse for many years, then exhibiting some of the shy narcissist traits myself, I felt that I was helped by learning to identify my maladaptive behaviors and thinking and then correct them. I do not think that the more classic "arrogant" narcissist has as much chance to stop their destructive behaviors and deal with their personality disorder.
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Happy Phantom
Well-known member
Here's a good read on a covert narcissist, and my free advice is to never speak to them again. Walk away and don't look back.
It interesting because in my experience people who have had a lot of contact with narcissists in their lives (including myself) are bound to adapt with some unhealthy traits and patterns themselves. We have to work out the whole narcissist thing, what it is, and also work on ourselves and any victimhood or other bad behaviour. (I recommend Dr Karyl McBride). I have read masses and masses of content about narcissism and personality disorders over several years, in a quest to identify and unravel my own experience and also to understand more on the subject so I could identify the type and the behaviour more easily.
What I find interesting (and challenging) is that although I am a lot more aware of overt abuse and dysfunction when it occurs, I can still find it hard to identify covert behaviour and dynamics.
I can unwittingly fall into strange power dynamics with people where I feel that this person (who ever they are) is treating me in a certain way - or casting me in a particular role - and I feel unable to assert myself. These patterns maybe take a life time of adaptation and growth to change? In addition to a tendency,- still to have difficulty at times protecting myself from these weird unbalanced dynamics, there are other situations that flaw me, mainly identifying the more covert narcissist. They are so good, so hard to detect.
I sometimes wonder about the covert narcissist, and who they are in my life. At that time when I was reading a lot about narcissism I went through a very strange phase where I felt very suspicious of all the relations in my life..I was going through a review, but suddenly everyone was the narcissist. I think this was a weird but natural phase I went through, I was also projecting all my experience and fears.
I think it's extremely important to listen to your intuition about other people to help with this. I have a friend in my life who is a lot older than me. I have repeatedly gone through phases of questioning my relationship with her and some of her behaviours. It's very strange but I cannot decide if she is toxic or whether she is just unwittingly thoughtless. (e.g. recognising that people are human and are not going to always fulfil our needs). Narcissists act unconsciously in anycase so it's not as if she would be 'aware' of her behaviour. It just goes to prove how difficult it is sometimes to uncover the covert narcissist. they confuse you and tie you up in knots with their contradictory behaviour.
One of the things I have noticed in our relationship, is that I go to this person for support or advice (as well as friendship) and they, at times, subtly undermine me, or behave in a dismissive or invalidating way. I have a sense at times that they try to keep some control over me, while playing the part of a helping friend,- e.g. they do not want me to grow or gain in my self esteem. At times I have felt uncomfortable realising how something this person has said, or a behaviour has affected my confidence about an issue or decision. (That their opinion has a big impact). At other times, they behave in an opposite way and can be quite beneficent. It's extremely hard to get hold of this situation and understand it, but I gradually changing and getting stronger and following my own advice, or asking people who don't have an agenda (however unconscious) to keep me small. I have noticed that there is more of a feeling of 'equality' in the healthier relationships - even if someone is substantially older than me, I'm not made to feel that I am somehow 'less than' or unequal. If covert narcissists weren't also very good at being extremely nice, they'd be a lot easier to detect.
Some toxic behaviours I think covert narcissists display;
-subtly undermine you, or withdraw particular support/ attention at a crucial time.
-use knowledge about you what is important to you and what you feel vulnerable about to disparage you or cause doubt in your mind. (This is very hard to challenge someone about because it is covert behaviour and hard to 'prove'. They may for example say how great 'x' person is, in a way that feel's like they are actually trying really to undermine you subtly through comparison). Or make a comment about an issue that you feel vulnerable about to gain control in the situation/argument.
-When you are talking about a topic or situation, they always argue against your point, or in favour of the other person. (This may be very subtle)
-When you seek support or validation they invalidate you by undermining the importance of your experience.
-There aim is to keep you 'in your place', where you can benefit them. They can be nice enough to keep you confused, but, unlike in a genuine friendship they are not really concerned with your well being or see you as a separate other.
If your confidence has already been 'knocked' by being exposed to narcissists, a lot of this behaviour will feel very normal to you. That is why it is important to pay attention to how other people make you feel. Does spending time with them make you expansive and positive afterwards, or do you feel depleted, shaky, frustrated and uncomfortable?
What I find interesting (and challenging) is that although I am a lot more aware of overt abuse and dysfunction when it occurs, I can still find it hard to identify covert behaviour and dynamics.
I can unwittingly fall into strange power dynamics with people where I feel that this person (who ever they are) is treating me in a certain way - or casting me in a particular role - and I feel unable to assert myself. These patterns maybe take a life time of adaptation and growth to change? In addition to a tendency,- still to have difficulty at times protecting myself from these weird unbalanced dynamics, there are other situations that flaw me, mainly identifying the more covert narcissist. They are so good, so hard to detect.
I sometimes wonder about the covert narcissist, and who they are in my life. At that time when I was reading a lot about narcissism I went through a very strange phase where I felt very suspicious of all the relations in my life..I was going through a review, but suddenly everyone was the narcissist. I think this was a weird but natural phase I went through, I was also projecting all my experience and fears.
I think it's extremely important to listen to your intuition about other people to help with this. I have a friend in my life who is a lot older than me. I have repeatedly gone through phases of questioning my relationship with her and some of her behaviours. It's very strange but I cannot decide if she is toxic or whether she is just unwittingly thoughtless. (e.g. recognising that people are human and are not going to always fulfil our needs). Narcissists act unconsciously in anycase so it's not as if she would be 'aware' of her behaviour. It just goes to prove how difficult it is sometimes to uncover the covert narcissist. they confuse you and tie you up in knots with their contradictory behaviour.
One of the things I have noticed in our relationship, is that I go to this person for support or advice (as well as friendship) and they, at times, subtly undermine me, or behave in a dismissive or invalidating way. I have a sense at times that they try to keep some control over me, while playing the part of a helping friend,- e.g. they do not want me to grow or gain in my self esteem. At times I have felt uncomfortable realising how something this person has said, or a behaviour has affected my confidence about an issue or decision. (That their opinion has a big impact). At other times, they behave in an opposite way and can be quite beneficent. It's extremely hard to get hold of this situation and understand it, but I gradually changing and getting stronger and following my own advice, or asking people who don't have an agenda (however unconscious) to keep me small. I have noticed that there is more of a feeling of 'equality' in the healthier relationships - even if someone is substantially older than me, I'm not made to feel that I am somehow 'less than' or unequal. If covert narcissists weren't also very good at being extremely nice, they'd be a lot easier to detect.
Some toxic behaviours I think covert narcissists display;
-subtly undermine you, or withdraw particular support/ attention at a crucial time.
-use knowledge about you what is important to you and what you feel vulnerable about to disparage you or cause doubt in your mind. (This is very hard to challenge someone about because it is covert behaviour and hard to 'prove'. They may for example say how great 'x' person is, in a way that feel's like they are actually trying really to undermine you subtly through comparison). Or make a comment about an issue that you feel vulnerable about to gain control in the situation/argument.
-When you are talking about a topic or situation, they always argue against your point, or in favour of the other person. (This may be very subtle)
-When you seek support or validation they invalidate you by undermining the importance of your experience.
-There aim is to keep you 'in your place', where you can benefit them. They can be nice enough to keep you confused, but, unlike in a genuine friendship they are not really concerned with your well being or see you as a separate other.
If your confidence has already been 'knocked' by being exposed to narcissists, a lot of this behaviour will feel very normal to you. That is why it is important to pay attention to how other people make you feel. Does spending time with them make you expansive and positive afterwards, or do you feel depleted, shaky, frustrated and uncomfortable?
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Happy Phantom
Well-known member
It took me years to realize the life I was living and when it really hit home I was and still somewhat am in shock. It's as if I had suddenly awakened from a very long nightmare. After reading many books and articles, which freaked me the fuck out, I now see that from the beginning it was there and it only worsened over the years until I could no longer live that way. It's been a little over a year and without getting into detail, I have finally realized that no contact is in order.
#historyeraser
#historyeraser
I'm relieved that covert (Shyness isn't related to covert-narcissism, in fact, it's tossed in Sam Vaknin's witches' brew rather slyly...being the creature he is, he loves a broad brush that taints as many people as possible...dragging them down, natch. Covert or overts can be shy or not) narcissism is at least recognized now.
Cue Cosmo! Buzzfeed! I know at least 20 narcissists!!!
LCD will use the label willy-nilly, thus delegitimizing the concept as a victim ploy for sympathy. Don't put complicated, nuanced concepts in a dullard's head. How many times have dumbasses simplified complex information? Sometimes they do the fuzzy blend: Gluten causes diabetes because it's in bread and bread is a carb.
Thank you, commenting person!
boogiechillen1233 years ago
"Narcissists look for every opportunity to inflate their self image, while avoidants look for every opportunity to devalue themselves. There is no connection between narcissism and avoidant personality disorder."
So, the victim of the narcissist is labeled as a narcissist by the real narcissist. How typical.
This doc is chilling.
Entire doc is chopped up, go to YouTube. Great narcissistic example, he is. Ugh.
Cue Cosmo! Buzzfeed! I know at least 20 narcissists!!!
LCD will use the label willy-nilly, thus delegitimizing the concept as a victim ploy for sympathy. Don't put complicated, nuanced concepts in a dullard's head. How many times have dumbasses simplified complex information? Sometimes they do the fuzzy blend: Gluten causes diabetes because it's in bread and bread is a carb.
Thank you, commenting person!
boogiechillen1233 years ago
"Narcissists look for every opportunity to inflate their self image, while avoidants look for every opportunity to devalue themselves. There is no connection between narcissism and avoidant personality disorder."
So, the victim of the narcissist is labeled as a narcissist by the real narcissist. How typical.
This doc is chilling.
Entire doc is chopped up, go to YouTube. Great narcissistic example, he is. Ugh.
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