Anyone Following the Current Planned Parenthood Controversy? Thoughts? | INFJ Forum

Anyone Following the Current Planned Parenthood Controversy? Thoughts?

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by PintoBean, Jul 30, 2015.

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  1. PintoBean

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    So recently the Center for Medical Progress (a conservative lobbying group, which no doubt raises some of your hackles) has released a number of under-cover videos taken as they discussed the harvest and sale of tissue/organs/parts from fetuses at Planned Parenthood and their affiliates. Applicable federal law includes but may not be limited the following:

    "42 U.S. Code 289g covers the prohibitions regarding human fetal tissue and states that, “It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly acquire, receive, or otherwise transfer any human fetal tissue for valuable consideration if the transfer affects interstate commerce.”



    and

    "18 U.S. Code § 1531 - Partial-birth abortions prohibited
    US Code
    Notes
    prev | next
    (a) Any physician who, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, knowingly performs a partial-birth abortion and thereby kills a human fetus shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both. This subsection does not apply to a partial-birth abortion that is necessary to save the life of a mother whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself. This subsection takes effect 1 day after the enactment.
    (b) As used in this section—
    (1) the term “partial-birth abortion” means an abortion in which the person performing the abortion—
    (A) deliberately and intentionally vaginally delivers a living fetus until, in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother, or, in the case of breech presentation, any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother, for the purpose of performing an overt act that the person knows will kill the partially delivered living fetus; and
    (B) performs the overt act, other than completion of delivery, that kills the partially delivered living fetus;..."


    I watched the videos and came to the conclusion that PP may well be breaking the law three different ways:

    1) They are profiting from the sale of fetal tissue. In one video the PP Director of Medical Services acknowledges that they are not allowed to profit from their sales. That is any funds they receive can only be for them to break even in the process of "donating" tissue for the purpose of scientific research of profit or non-profit groups. The funds they receive then should only cover things such as the storage and transport of the harvested parts. However, at one point during the video she acknowledges that it is good if they can "come out a little ahead." You can't really get around that. It's illegal to "come out ahead" financially when dealing with human fetal tissue.

    [video=youtube;H4UjIM9B9KQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4UjIM9B9KQ[/video]

    And pay attention to this one starting at aprox 5 mins:

    [video=youtube;GWQuZMvcFA8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWQuZMvcFA8[/video]

    2) They are likely violating patient consent laws by changing the way the procedure is performed. It seems the patient never actually consents to the breech (ie non-partial birth position) removal of the fetus that is being used at least sometimes vs. the regular manual or machine suction/vacuum aspiration method, which as I understand it, basically pulls the baby out in parts, yet the PP doctors acknowledge to tweaking the position in order to deliver the baby in what I understand to be (and correct me if I am wrong) in a partial birth abortion type of way by using a less "crunchy technique" that the patients don't understand or consent to. This in order to get more whole organs (pay attetion at aprox 5 minutes):

    [video=youtube;MjCs_gvImyw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjCs_gvImyw[/video]

    3) They are likely violating the partial birth abortion prohibition if a feticide or other technique has to be used if the fetus is still alive upon removal from the womb.

    So I think Planned Parenthood is systematically breaking the law. I am aware that this lobbying group who went under-cover may well be repugnant to you. The videos are produced in a slick, high-agenda manner. But it's hard to get around some of the things they disclose. For the record, I am pro-choice. The issues I am putting out there are about violating federal laws pertaining to partial birth abortions and sale for profit of fetus parts, and state laws involving patient consent. I am not debating whether those laws should exist, whether they are right/wrong or unconstitutional etc.

    Thoughts?
     
    #1 PintoBean, Jul 30, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
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  2. Stu

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    I would be interested to know what the percentages are, what level of funding are they deriving from this practice. No doubt selling a clients terminated fetus without consent is unethical but that is not what they will be pilloried for. The notion that the body parts are being sold at all is enough to get them de-funded by Congress.
     
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  3. OP
    PintoBean

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    The clients consent to the donation of their fetus. However, what they don't consent to is a change-up in the manner in which the procedure is performed. The procedure is changed in order to keep the fetus in tact better for the purchasers. PP is and will argue that the only money they take is to cover the costs of things like storing and transporting these parts. In other words, they can only break even. However, at multiple points in these videos it is implicitly and occasionally explicitly clear that PP is profiting (or trying to) beyond cost of the harvest.
     
  4. Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    Personally, I believe that PP does a lot of good in a lot of communities that otherwise would not have access to women’s services.
    So unless congress has a better replacement lined up, a lot of needless suffering will occur if it is defunded because of the heartless sounding or seemingly disgusting behaviors or a few. Ahem…Congress should defund itself in this case.
    I digress.

    The manner in which an adult who has denotable organs dies is also changed…and up until recently they called them “harvests” which sounds cold…so now they are pushing the term “procurement” anyhow…I don’t see that as being an issue. It’s the idea of profit-making off of the death of a fetus.
    News flash…they (being the companies that use such organs or procure them) have been making money off of all and any body parts from all ages of people for years…especially the eyes…those are like gold.

    Anyhow…reform is needed I can agree with that…but it should be broader than PP…you should see what the patients who receive the processed parts get charged…holy shit!
     
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    #4 Skarekrow, Jul 30, 2015
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  5. Stu

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    [MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION] , once again, i couldn't agree with you more. But it appears that they have infact broken the law. Seeing how they rely on the good will and financial support of folks who see them as a force for good, that seems rather stupid. It also raised ethical problems for an organization that really ought to have the highest ethical standards.
     
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  6. Skarekrow

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    I agree that they should be investigated to see if indeed laws were broken…and those who called the shots on such a thing punished accordingly.
    I just find it almost humorous if it were not for the subject matter that the people get in an uproar about this but then want to march to war again and again in the middle east. Not to mention the sad state of our mental health services.
    Not to mention the deplorable care our Vets get.
    Not to mention that no single banker involved with the collapse of our economy is in jail.
    I understand this is a touchy subject because it involves abortion, which is already a touchy subject here, I just wish there were a little more equal distribution of empathy and ethics…because it seems like, unless it involves a fetus, no one cares.
     
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  7. Y0u

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    At least people had the foresight to write it into law.
     
  8. Wyote

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  9. Skarekrow

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    [​IMG]


    I just don’t think it’s worth defunding all these services they perform…but then again…these are poor people we are talking about, so who really cares?
     
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  10. Wyote

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  11. Free

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    As many of us that work in healthcare know, PP does in fact do so much for women, among many other facilities that advocate for a woman's right to choose, and provide medical exams, birth control, abortions, PAPs, vaccinations, and other countless medical services that provide for women in need who would otherwise go without.

    I have seen too many self-abortions gone wrong, too many babies abandoned, and too many women die from otherwise treatable conditions to discredit PP and other facilities that provide the same services. But I am not here to advocate on those issues, just on the one at hand.

    It is clear that laws have been broken and I believe that PP should be forthright about their intentions with the tissue that would otherwise be discarded as biohazard waste. PP receives little to no funding at all and rely on donations and patients who can afford to pay out of pocket. If the revenue gained from this goes to further helping women in need, I haven't the slightest problem with it. But, It should be done legally and should be accounted for.

    As far as the ethical concerns of using the tissue itself for research, I believe the knowledge gained from the tissue is invaluable to the human race. The cure and treatment for many, many diseases and spinal cord injuries could be had with this research. I think often many forget how our modern medicine came to be in the first place. But even so, this should be done legally. The question of morality will be, perhaps, the biggest concern on the legalities of this.
     
    #11 Free, Aug 1, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2015
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  12. comfortlevel

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    I have a huge problem with the recent court action to block the release of the remaining videos. Actually, it's only one video according to a CNN interview of the video's producer, a video with reveals that PP's customer, StemExpress, reveals that they actually occasionally got whole intact fetuses. (I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth) No wonder they are worried!
    Furthermore, it's StemExpress technicians who would procure the organs, store and transport them, so associated costs were completely born by the customer, so what exactly are PP's "costs" again? Furthermore, costs are non-negotiable. They are not haggled, they are presented in an itemized invoice from accounting.
    I completely don't get the justification of...but this research saves lives. But if so many lives were sacrificed in the process, how does humanity really gain in the big picture? When we as humanity can become so callous as to be OK with killing a human being, even a potential one, because they are inconvenient, which is the majority reason for abortions. I'm fine with a rape/incest exception, but 1/3rd of my generation (X) was aborted. That's a lot of people folks! Consider the implications for...say...the Social Security system. Sure would be nice to have those people paying into it right about now.
     
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  13. Misadventure

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    This research will save lives. Future tense. Abortion is a touchy subject. It gets even worse when people throw their own morals into the mix and stop looking at things objectively. This thread isn't on the morality of abortions and if they are right or wrong.
     
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    Personally, in my humblest opinion, my personal and irrelevant opinion... I agree with [MENTION=13729]Free2be[/MENTION], [MENTION=251]Wyote[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION] on this subject.
     
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    I'm going to share my view which is probably not going to be popular.

    So I'm an individual who can (moreso than already), and has directly benefitted from similar research/practices.

    I FULLY SUPPORT this supposed practice that PP has engaged in, though to me to what end they've actually participated in it is up for debate.

    Unwanted fetus' SHOULD BE USED for the benefit of humankind.

    If you don't like it, go ahead and stop abortion, completely. Make every single person unable to have or want to have an abortion. Go ahead. I'd fully support that too, there are other methods of stem cell research. Good luck.
     
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    #15 Wyote, Aug 1, 2015
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  16. muir

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    I told you all about planned parenthood years ago

    I told you

    I told you I told you

    I told you about all of it before it happened

    I tell you again and again and you still don't get it

    And i'm going to tell you this:

    The vaccines are not there to save you they are there to make you sick

    They passed the bill in california making it mandatory for children to be injected with toxic vaccines and now they are going to pass a bill making it mandatory for adults to be vaccinated

    And politicians in other states are saying it should be rolled out nationwide

    They're coming for you adults now with their vaccines too and they have 300 new vaccines waiting in the wings

    Lots of toxic shite coming your way...enjoy
     
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    #16 muir, Aug 2, 2015
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  17. comfortlevel

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    Persons should be able to voluntarily donate their own body for science and the benefit of humankind. Further, I understand the train of thought that, if these bodies are not wanted, and are going to be aborted anyway, the tissue might as well be used for something good. OK, so far so good. This issue to me is not about abortion per se, but about the callous nature with which real human remains are treated. There is also the question as to whether the method of the abortion was changed beyond what the woman consented to in order to produce more marketable parts. I have no problem with research, or with there being a safe abortion option available to women. But profiting on the sale of human body parts...maybe even an entire intact human body? If proven to be true, I see no justification for that. I feel human beings in general, including their remains, should be treated with dignity and respect, not bargained over. I do not feel sorry for finding that horrific, no matter what potential good might come from it. The ends do NOT justify the means.
    And again, I have a HUGE problem with the court blocking the release of one of these videos. I don't care who you are, or what your agenda may be, the court does NOT have the right to deny the First Amendment rights of a journalist just to protect some private corporation from legal repercussions. Them's the breaks. You cannot interfere with the journalistic process...at least not in the America I know. Sometimes I am happy with what journalists uncover, and sometimes I'm not, but they must have the right to do so!
     
  18. muir

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    Planned parenthood are chopping up aborted babies and selling off the body parts illegally to make a profit

    They want people to abort babies so that they can hack them up into pieces and sell them on

    And what makes you so sure that the pieces are all going to 'research'?

    They just get sold to anyone with the money to buy which is why some journalists were able to pretend to want to buy some through a front company

    They are ghouls and criminals

    And this is the least of what they're doing

    Planned parenthood will be protected by the politicians in the congress that the oligarchs control
     
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    #18 muir, Aug 3, 2015
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  19. muir

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  20. muir

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    http://www.naturalnews.com/050637_Planned_Parenthood_aborted_babies_organ_harvesting.html

    [h=1]Planned Parenthood sells fully intact baby corpses after delivering them whole[/h] Monday, August 03, 2015 by: J. D. Heyes

    In a new bombshell allegation, the head of the undercover organization currently exposing Planned Parenthood's ghoulish practice of harvesting aborted baby body parts and selling them for profit through a series of videos says a tissue firm trying to block new video releases is only trying to cover up a horrific fact: that it purchase entire, intact aborted (killed) babies from the "women's health" provider.

    David Daleiden of the Center for Medical Progress told CNN Friday that employees from the company StemExpress were allegedly captured on video May 22 by undercover operatives arranging the transactions.

    "In a meeting with their top leadership, they admitted that they sometimes get fully intact fetuses shipped to their laboratory from the abortion clinics they work with, and that could be prima facie evidence of born alive infants," Daleiden told the cable news channel. "And so that's why they're trying to suppress that videotape and they're very scared of it."

    In recent days, StemExpress officials managed to convince a Los Angeles County Superior Court judge to issue a restraining order against the center, a highly controversial censorship that, for now, prevents the center from releasing the video featuring the company's employees.

    Daleiden has said he does not expect that order to hold on appeal.

    [h=1]Why else would StemExpress sue to censor a video if it wasn't trying to hide something?[/h]More details on the alleged sale, as reported by Breitbart News:

    On May 22, Daleiden and his team had lunch with StemExpress CEO Cate Dyer and other senior personnel from the company that is the main buyer of freshly killed baby parts from Planned Parenthood. As the Center for Medical Progress has released videos, four so far, it is certain that anyone who met with Daleiden, who was posing as CEO of a fictitious company called BioMax, would become worried about what they might have said. Apparently StemExpress talked about things that may shock America and any future stockholders of the as-yet privately held company.

    You can see Daleiden's CNN interview here.

    While Daleiden's version of what is contained on the StemExpress video cannot be confirmed by Natural News at this time since it has yet to be released, given the actions of Planned Parenthood and the progressive-left mainstream media in attempting to deflect criticism away from the abortion mill and change the narrative, it would follow that a company likely would fight the release of explosive or embarrassing information.

    In terms of changing the narrative and burying coverage of its body parts business, Planned Parenthood has hired SKDKnickerbocker, a crisis management firm that is attempting to divert attention away from PP and convince any media interested in advancing the alarming story to drop coverage.

    [h=1]We have called for a criminal probe[/h]Since the story initially broke with the release of the center's first video, many in the mainstream media have either attempted to downplay its significance or give voice to Planned Parenthood. In a recent op-ed in The Washington Post, PP president Cecile Richards attacked the Center for Medical Progress as "extremists" while failing to directly address what has been revealed on the center's undercover videos – except to say that what Americans are actually viewing and hearing on them isn't real.

    For our part, we at Natural News have called for a criminal investigation into the actions of Planned Parenthood, given that the sale of human body parts is a clear violation of U.S. statutes.

    For Richards to argue that the Center for Medical Progress is just another "right-wing" "anti-abortion group" looking to "wage a war on women" is not only incorrect; it is farcical nonsense.

    For us, the issue here is not, as Richards ridiculously claims, to disbar PP from providing health services to women, which it undoubtedly does; the issue is to punish illegal behavior taking place as much as it is to define what we want to be, and what we want to stand for, as a nation.

    Sources:

    http://www.breitbart.com

    http://www.snappytv.com

    https://www.youtube.com

    http://www.naturalnews.com


     
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