Alter ego

[Gaze]

Do you believe in having an alter ego? If you have or had one, how would they be different from your usual personality?

The thought of alter egos came up because of a celebrity who changed her identity. Kat Graham (Vampire Diaries). In an interview, she said this new persona she calls Toro Gato is not an alter ego. The real alter ego is the person everyone knew her to be, as Kat Graham.

However, most people think of alter egos from superhero movies such as Clark Kent/Superman, Black Widow/Natasha Romanoff, Bruce Wayne/Batman, etc.

Alter egos are often used to separate identities tied to various roles. For example, performers have alter egos that go along with their stage personas. Public figures have a persona they present to the world that may be quite different from their everyday personality.


But what about us? Have you ever created an alter ego for yourself? How was it? Can it be a healthy way to separate different aspects of ourselves, and can it also be unhealthy in the long term if you start to lose yourself in your alter ego?

 

[Jexocuha]

Do you believe in having an alter ego? If you have or had one, how would they be different from your usual personality?

The thought of alter egos came up because of a celebrity who changed her identity. Kat Graham (Vampire Diaries). In an interview, she said this new persona she calls Toro Gato is not an alter ego. The real alter ego is the person everyone knew her to be, as Kat Graham.

However, most people think of alter egos from superhero movies such as Clark Kent/Superman, Black Widow/Natasha Romanoff, Bruce Wayne/Batman, etc.

Alter egos are often used to separate identities tied to various roles. For example, performers have alter egos that go along with their stage personas. Public figures have a persona they present to the world that may be quite different from their everyday personality.


But what about us? Have you ever created an alter ego for yourself? How was it? Can it be a healthy way to separate different aspects of ourselves, and can it also be unhealthy in the long term if you start to lose yourself in your alter ego?

This is a great question @Gaze! Yes I believe in having an alter ego. In terms of MBTI, I agree with @Ren that the shadow of INFJ personality is ENFP, and it looks kind of like a "dark ENFP", imo. I don't agree that the fourth function is "unconscious" however; I think it is a very conscious function. In the INFJ stack: Ni Fe Ti Se are all conscious functions. I just think the primary introverted and extroverted functions are what make up your ego and personality, and the ones a person is most naturally capable of recognizing and controlling. The tertiary and inferior functions are the ones that give you trouble and make you work the hardest to develop. Behind all this are unconscious functions that can be visible under stress and always underlie beneath the conscious ones. So when an INFJ sees their shadow, it looks like an ENFP. And I love ENFPs. Around them, I don't feel so embarrassed or "afraid of my shadow". They show me the positive and healthy aspects of Ne and Fi. But that is not the alter-ego.

I have never "created" an alter-ego, but I think I discovered it. An alter-ego, imo, is flipping the functions backwards, so Se and Ti (for an INFJ) start to take dominant prescience. I look like an unhealthy ESTP in my alter-ego. ESTPs, even when they look reckless, are actually quite healthy and natural with their ability to tap into their instincts, make quick decisions, flaunt their physicality, and keep an air of self-certainty about it all. When an INFJ, like me, does this, it looks pretty hardcore and unhealthy, for a short period of time. I'm speeding down the road, blasting my stereo, taking risks, and doing dumb and risky things. Sometimes its not dumb or for a dumb reason. I feel compelled to do something about a problem, but I don't have time to stop and think, so I take on an air of (overconfidence?), and physically overexert myself or toss myself into an unhealthy[in more ways than one] situation. It either looks very brave or very bad and scary. And it's not easy to control.

I think the alter-ego can be healthy in showing yourself your limits. You can know more about who you are by exploring what you are not, and so you can find a happy medium. To me, as an INFJ, that happy medium is Fe, with a little Ti: I'm flexible, adaptable, skeptically cooperative, and making the process of "smoothing things out" my first "go-to" before making a strong determination with Ti. I don't go "balls-to-the-wall" with Se; and I may even take some queues from ISxPs who treat sensory perceptions with a sort of playful fluidity, in the same way I treat Extroverted Feeling. So, all in all, yes I think it is good and healthy to discover and explore your alter-ego, but not for too long, as it can be dangerous. It's especially important to understand it so that one can know their healthy ego and full self better.

 

[Wyote]

Spoiler

 

[mintoots]

I think I do. I'm also only just meeting her (again, I think). I'm realizing that convention buried her within me but also that I myself buried her because I desperately needed to be accepted within specific conventions. I'm rediscovering these strange aspects of myself that I thought were new but it seems, I've always known them. In the process of hiding them, I grew to form this intrusive self-hatred borne out of a desperation to be accepted and loved. I'm experiencing a journey toward oneness not unlike what the infamous Frozen Elsa experienced. It also hurts because the change seems to stupefy in some ways. Then again, I think it is necessary to be able to accept these so called sides of me that are not within the framework that I consciously crafted for myself. This is me as I am. Whatever it means about my character, my inner turmoil cannot be silenced. I must however remain conscious of a sense of responsibility both to myself and the people around me. But if no one gets hurt, it should be fine to let our more rancid selves be.

 

[Gaze]

This is a great question @Gaze! Yes I believe in having an alter ego. In terms of MBTI, I agree with @Ren that the shadow of INFJ personality is ENFP, and it looks kind of like a "dark ENFP", imo. I don't agree that the fourth function is "unconscious" however; I think it is a very conscious function. In the INFJ stack: Ni Fe Ti Se are all conscious functions. I just think the primary introverted and extroverted functions are what make up your ego and personality, and the ones a person is most naturally capable of recognizing and controlling. The tertiary and inferior functions are the ones that give you trouble and make you work the hardest to develop. Behind all this are unconscious functions that can be visible under stress and always underlie beneath the conscious ones. So when an INFJ sees their shadow, it looks like an ENFP. And I love ENFPs. Around them, I don't feel so embarrassed or "afraid of my shadow". They show me the positive and healthy aspects of Ne and Fi. But that is not the alter-ego.

I have never "created" an alter-ego, but I think I discovered it. An alter-ego, imo, is flipping the functions backwards, so Se and Ti (for an INFJ) start to take dominant prescience. I look like an unhealthy ESTP in my alter-ego. ESTPs, even when they look reckless, are actually quite healthy and natural with their ability to tap into their instincts, make quick decisions, flaunt their physicality, and keep an air of self-certainty about it all. When an INFJ, like me, does this, it looks pretty hardcore and unhealthy, for a short period of time. I'm speeding down the road, blasting my stereo, taking risks, and doing dumb and risky things. Sometimes its not dumb or for a dumb reason. I feel compelled to do something about a problem, but I don't have time to stop and think, so I take on an air of (overconfidence?), and physically overexert myself or toss myself into an unhealthy[in more ways than one] situation. It either looks very brave or very bad and scary. And it's not easy to control.

I think the alter-ego can be healthy in showing yourself your limits. You can know more about who you are by exploring what you are not, and so you can find a happy medium. To me, as an INFJ, that happy medium is Fe, with a little Ti: I'm flexible, adaptable, skeptically cooperative, and making the process of "smoothing things out" my first "go-to" before making a strong determination with Ti. I don't go "balls-to-the-wall" with Se; and I may even take some queues from ISxPs who treat sensory perceptions with a sort of playful fluidity, in the same way I treat Extroverted Feeling. So, all in all, yes I think it is good and healthy to discover and explore your alter-ego, but not for too long, as it can be dangerous. It's especially important to understand it so that one can know their healthy ego and full self better.

Thanks for responding!

I am not as familiar and knowledgeable about the MBTI functions to understand the alter-ego with that depth of knowledge. Kudos!

I connect with your these quotes:

I think the alter-ego can be healthy in showing yourself your limits. You can know more about who you are by exploring what you are not, and so you can find a happy medium.

I agree, that if you don't stretch yourself, and step outside of your comfort zone, you won't know your limits or what you are capable of achieving. I think fear can make it easy to hide or limit aspects of ourselves so we imagine we are less than we are, in terms of capabilities. Trying on a new persona can build confidence and self-esteem.

 

[John K]

Do you believe in having an alter ego? If you have or had one, how would they be different from your usual personality?

I don't have an alter ego I can choose to switch on and off, but I do tend to take on the shape of the people I spend time with. I don't do this as much, or as without control, as I did when I was younger. I became aware of it at university when I mixed with several different groups, and realised I couldn't find the right balance if I ever found myself with people from more than one of these groups at the same time because I was behaving differently with each group. The nearest example to this in my life today is the contrast between how I am here in the forum, and how I am in the church groups I belong to - this is more a case of how i select and present what I'm thinking and feeling though, rather than deep differences in my behaviour.

This is different to my shadow personality, in the form @Jexocuha describes it. I don't really experience this consciously as a distinct personality - it can have as many of these as it presents in my dreams I guess. By definition, it is my suppressed dark side and is difficult for me to accept, let alone for me to choose to act that way. Trying to face it and make it's components conscious and in control is quite a hard ethical journey and it isn't by any means right for my ego to be completely dominant in that dialogue - it's role is more one of facilitation I think. I'm sure my shadow slips out from time to time and when it does, I will behave in uncharacteristic ways.

One interesting choice I find myself making more recently is whether to lead from head or heart in a given situation. This is choice is something I've only become aware of since joining the forum, and it is definitely a choice I can make consciously.

Just strolling around this topic leads me to think that I don't have a straightforward answer from my own introspection. I can choose some of the ways I behave, and that may look like a blurring and shifting of the boundaries of my personality rather than acting in a different one.

 

[Wyote]

whether to lead from head or heart in a given situation

This is something I've contemplated considerably the past few years.
Intuitively, I feel like it's generally best to lead with the one you have more hesitancy in leading with.
Not always the best move, but it seems like a good general rule of consideration.
Anyway, I've no idea of a "right" approach to anything really, shooting from the hip has worked out for me.
The hip isn't the head or heart

 

[John K]

This is something I've contemplated considerably the past few years.
Intuitively, I feel like it's generally best to lead with the one you have more hesitancy in leading with.
Not always the best move, but it seems like a good general rule of consideration.

I try to choose the one that gives what feels like the right balance, if you know what I mean - feel in the intuitive, not emotional sense. It's interesting that you suggest hesitancy as an indication - it seems to me from my own experience that sometimes the best outcomes come from taking a bit of a risk. They can go wrong, but when the hit the mark that's pure magic!

Anyway, I've no idea of a "right" approach to anything really, shooting from the hip has worked out for me.
The hip isn't the head or heart

LOL One of my favourite memes:

 

[Wyote]

it seems to me from my own experience that sometimes the best outcomes come from taking a bit of a risk. They can go wrong, but when the hit the mark that's pure magic!

Precisely!

LOL One of my favourite memes:

My gf and I love this one as well, and we seem to be living by it more and more

 

[mintoots]

I try to choose the one that gives what feels like the right balance, if you know what I mean - feel in the intuitive, not emotional sense.

This is the same for me. For major decisions, there is usually a moment of unusual serenity and clarity that comes over me such that all my emotions about the situation get relegated no matter what they are: be it pain or excitement. Thereafter, I'm washed with resignation or call it obedience if I may. I must obey it and let it take me.

 

[John K]

@Gaze @mintoots

As educators, do you find that you have a public personality for your students? One of my brothers was a teacher for many years before he retired and I certainly see this in him - it switches on in the outside world sometimes.

 

[mintoots]

@Gaze @mintoots

As educators, do you find that you have a public personality for your students? One of my brothers was a teacher for many years before he retired and I certainly see this in him - it switches on in the outside world sometimes.

During the early years of my teaching, I did have such a persona but as I got comfortable with my students, I became more honest with them. Even my jokes are about as honest as myself. I have however mastered how to draw my lines with my students which was difficult in the beginning. Nowadays, it's not as taxing for me, possibly because our age gap now is more noticeable than when I started teaching and was much younger.

I'm not exactly sure how it happened ----- i think some time after I joined the forum, all of my personas just melded into myself as one person such that I no longer truly distinguish them. I do still have moods of being uncomfortable with certain people that I tend to walk on eggshells and act a certain silent broody type. Mostly, I think it is my perception of myself that has changed. In the past I saw them as different versions of myself but now I am understanding that I am still her and that we are one. These facets of me ----some intense and dark, others carelessly joyous, others helplessly idealistic---- they're all me and are united as one me rather than separated. Thus, my recognition of my alter ego is not so much a separation from myself but mostly a recognition of my underlying unbridled tendencies if I shall let them be that.

 

[Matty]

Perhaps I have different modes of settings, which are circumstancial. I'm very professional in professional settings, casual in casual settings, etc.

 

[aeon]

I change what I engage with, and that which I engage with changes me, but I don’t have an alter-ego. Given my understanding of the human ego, I’m not sure an alter-ego is even possible. What would seem outside of it is simply another side of it, the same mask with different lighting.

The only alternative to ego is removal of the ego itself, which presents the opportunity of witness of one’s true face.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[Wyote]

simply another side of it, the same mask with different lighting

 

[Gaze]

@Gaze @mintoots

As educators, do you find that you have a public personality for your students? One of my brothers was a teacher for many years before he retired and I certainly see this in him - it switches on in the outside world sometimes.

Yes, in some ways. That's actually one of the reasons why I asked the question. When you are in public positions, you do have to put on a mask or face in some ways because you can't truly be yourself. You have to be conscious of the way you appear to others. This means, you shelf some aspects of your personality, and present a personality that fits the expectations of the role.

But I have actually suffered from this because I often feel as if the self that I present feels a bit one-dimensional and feels oversimplified. I also think many tend to view the public personality as the real person and don't realize how much of it is a put-on or in some cases a necessary performance for professional purposes, not in an intentionally deceptive way, but in a way that has to accommodate interactions with different types of persons all at once. I have often felt as if I have lost myself or don't even know who I am because of how many accommodations need to be made to meet the expectations of that position.

During the early years of my teaching, I did have such a persona but as I got comfortable with my students, I became more honest with them. Even my jokes are about as honest as myself. I have however mastered how to draw my lines with my students which was difficult in the beginning. Nowadays, it's not as taxing for me, possibly because our age gap now is more noticeable than when I started teaching and was much younger.

I'm not exactly sure how it happened ----- i think some time after I joined the forum, all of my personas just melded into myself as one person such that I no longer truly distinguish them. I do still have moods of being uncomfortable with certain people that I tend to walk on eggshells and act a certain silent broody type. Mostly, I think it is my perception of myself that has changed. In the past I saw them as different versions of myself but now I am understanding that I am still her and that we are one. These facets of me ----some intense and dark, others carelessly joyous, others helplessly idealistic---- they're all me and are united as one me rather than separated. Thus, my recognition of my alter ego is not so much a separation from myself but mostly a recognition of my underlying unbridled tendencies if I shall let them be that.

I do agree that as an educator, age gaps do make a huge difference in comfort level and confidence. When I first began teaching, I was close to the age group of many of my students, although I was teaching adults. I often felt as if I had to prove myself. I was extremely naive and likely didn't seem old enough or mature enough maybe to teach them, understandably. Now, I could be the parent of many if not most of my students, and after 20 years of teaching, I don't feel that need to prove my mettle anymore. I have more easy-going, and relaxed interactions with them. I am not as afraid to be more casual. However, I am naturally a more serious person, and there are so many accommodations required to make others feel more at ease. It's sometimes quite one-sided and imbalanced. Having to "keep up appearances" becomes overwhelming, tiring, and overall draining.

I can also relate to viewing my alter ego as those impulses or desires I ignore, suppress, or try to reign in.

 

[aeon]

When you are in public positions, you do have to put on a mask or face in some ways because you can't truly be yourself. You have to be conscious of the way you appear to others. This means, you shelf some aspects of your personality, and present a personality that fits the expectations of the role.

To the degree one is able, or desires to. Of course, not doing so results in consequences, especially when the reason is judged to be lack of willingness.

But I have actually suffered from this because I often feel as if the self that I present feels a bit one-dimensional and feels oversimplified.

I think it is possible to self-censor to a lesser degree and still function in a given environment, but that’s been my experience, and I don’t know the possibility of doing so in your situation(s).

I also think many tend to view the public personality as the real person and don't realize how much of it is a put-on or in some cases a necessary performance for professional purposes, not in an intentionally deceptive way, but in a way that has to accommodate interactions with different types of persons all at once.

No one thinks this about their self, but some think this about others for reasons of professionalism, a lack of insight, a tendency toward quick judgments, or as a strategy for personal gain.

I think this depends on how socially-formal engagements are in a given environment. Less so can result in greater authenticity. More so means people will do what people do, but (usually) take care to be discreet.

I have often felt as if I have lost myself or don't even know who I am because of how many accommodations need to be made to meet the expectations of that position.

Do you think it is possible to find a way to meet the expectations of that position, yet at the same time remain centered in yourself? What I mean is, still doing what is required of you, but with mindful intent, choice, and agency, so you are always present in what you do?

However, I am naturally a more serious person, and there are so many accommodations required to make others feel more at ease. It's sometimes quite one-sided and imbalanced. Having to "keep up appearances" becomes overwhelming, tiring, and overall draining.

As they say, don’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. Perhaps there is a point of balance where you can accommodate in a way that aligns with expectation, yet others can accept responsibility for their own feeling of ease—which ultimately, you have no control of.

I can also relate to viewing my alter ego as those impulses or desires I ignore, suppress, or try to reign in.

I’m not saying this is what you are doing, but this sounds like a common human ego defense—to ignore, repress, sublimate, project, intellectualize, deny, and so on—those parts of the Self not yet accepted and integrated into the internal Self-model, for whatever reason(s).

Cheers,
Ian

 

[John K]

But I have actually suffered from this because I often feel as if the self that I present feels a bit one-dimensional and feels oversimplified. I also think many tend to view the public personality as the real person and don't realize how much of it is a put-on or in some cases a necessary performance for professional purposes, not in an intentionally deceptive way, but in a way that has to accommodate interactions with different types of persons all at once. I have often felt as if I have lost myself or don't even know who I am because of how many accommodations need to be made to meet the expectations of that position.

However, I am naturally a more serious person, and there are so many accommodations required to make others feel more at ease. It's sometimes quite one-sided and imbalanced. Having to "keep up appearances" becomes overwhelming, tiring, and overall draining.

At its very heart, this is about authenticity - a term that sounds technical but is really as visceral as we can get. How can we truly find our true self in the middle of all the projections we have to accept off all the people who place them on us in certain kinds of jobs? They all have an archetypal expectation of what a teacher is and it slots around us like a straightjacket. There are other public facing jobs like that - priest, manager, coach, therapist, politician, etc. It isn't just the people we serve who do this, but our peers and superiors too who bring different expectations and project those onto us too. I wonder if these create alter egos in us - maybe what they create in us are more like possessing spirits .

Some people simply just become the projected archetypes - perhaps they are already wired up that way and they have found the job equivalent of a soul-mate. Their problem comes when they retire or their job disappears, and they 'lose their souls'. Others adapt until there is nothing left inside, and they are just an empty shell of the projections others have placed on them. Others, the happy ones, find some way of being themselves and still doing the job reasonably well.

Is it useful for me to suggest some ways of addressing this? I don't know, because there isn't really an easy answer. My own role was that of manager, which has it's own problems of authenticity. From my own life experience, short of just getting out, salvation came from having something in my private life that was at least as deep and intense as my job but very different in character - something that I was as deeply invested in, or even more so. There were two things that did this for me - my family life with its ongoing deep crises and joys, and my intensely inward looking spiritual life which spills out into all of them. My job could never challenge my sense of identity while I was so deeply invested in all of these, and the projections either bounced off or became more like a game of life than a takeover bid for my identity. These three things became symbiotic - so when things were really bad at home, my job with it's expectations and intensity gave me stability, routine, distraction, temporary escape, and so in its turn it helped me to preserve my identity. .

 

[Gaze]

To the degree one is able, or desires to. Of course, not doing so results in consequences, especially when the reason is judged to be lack of willingness.



I think it is possible to self-censor to a lesser degree and still function in a given environment, but that’s been my experience, and I don’t know the possibility of doing so in your situation(s).



No one thinks this about their self, but some think this about others for reasons of professionalism, a lack of insight, a tendency toward quick judgments, or as a strategy for personal gain.

I think this depends on how socially-formal engagements are in a given environment. Less so can result in greater authenticity. More so means people will do what people do, but (usually) take care to be discreet.



Do you think it is possible to find a way to meet the expectations of that position, yet at the same time remain centered in yourself? What I mean is, still doing what is required of you, but with mindful intent, choice, and agency, so you are always present in what you do?



As they say, don’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. Perhaps there is a point of balance where you can accommodate in a way that aligns with expectation, yet others can accept responsibility for their own feeling of ease—which ultimately, you have no control of.



I’m not saying this is what you are doing, but this sounds like a common human ego defense—to ignore, repress, sublimate, project, intellectualize, deny, and so on—those parts of the Self not yet accepted and integrated into the internal Self-model, for whatever reason(s).

Cheers,
Ian

I know the advice is well-intentioned, but I am not seeking a solution or advice on this. I just wanted to share my feelings and see if others felt the same.

 

[aeon]

I know the advice is well-intentioned, but I am not seeking a solution or advice on this. I just wanted to share my feelings and see if others felt the same.

Oh, for certain, I was only sharing my thoughts and asking a question or two.

I know better than to offer you advice, because I have not forgotten when you said:

This is going to make some people upset but I am really getting annoyed at people not recognizing their privilege and telling others what to think or feel as if everything is a matter of will and logic. White middle aged men should not be telling black women of color who experience discrimination in ways you can't ever understand how to feel about their experiences. You have not lived in my body and experienced the world as I have, experienced the invisibility and disregard because of gender, race, weight, or appearance. You have no right. Stop commenting on things you can't possibly understand. Don't tell me everything is up to me, or in my hands, when everyday I have to bow down to the world, and diminish who I am to earn a living. I don't need patronizing platitudes. So, no, you can disagree with how I feel but please don't post them to this blog. Thanks.

I really took this to heart. For the most part, I have chosen to ignore you.
In this (non-blog) thread, I took a chance and decided to engage with you.

My sense is that your feedback indicates it was not, and is not, welcome.
Not that I had engaged at all, but specifically, my style of engagement.

I both appreciate the feedback and am reminded of my place (of privilege).

I thank you for acknowledging my intention, and assuming it was well-meaning.
Regardless of that intention, as an end result, I feel that I have erred.

I am sorry I have been a bother to you in any capacity. I will not be or do so again.

Fare Thee Well,
Ian