A dog eat dog world | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

A dog eat dog world

Sadie said:
@Billy. You're right. Things are better. I'm an idealist. I want things to be better and I'm frustrated that they're not. I do what I can and I expect people to do more. I see what's possible and I expect people to see those possibilities too, and then I expect them to want to work for those possibilities, and sometimes I get pissed about it all and need to vent. Yeah, things are better than they were, but they can also be better than they are now. I have very high expectations.
Click to expand...

you said "expect" 4 times... as someone with formerly ultra high standards for life I can tell you from personal experiences

Expectations are counter balanced by insecurity. And they're unfair to the people you apply them to. I got so sick and tired of feeling disappointing all the time I had to redevelop my mind in how I see things. I know what you mean by wanting things to be better and even seeing the way to do it. But you don't have a right to project that on to other people who may be playing with a less developed mind or less maturity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Quiet
Yes, I have high expectations and sometimes expectations can mislead us, and sometimes they can benefit us, but without them we don't progress. Wishing and hoping alone don't make a better world. It takes hard work, and sometimes when you're in the trenches of what life can really dish out to people, you really see how few people are willing to give. A lot of people talk a great story, but when it comes down to putting in the time and effort it takes to make the world a better place, most people are no where to be found.
 
I'm not saying dedicate your life to social service or do more than what you're capable of doing. I'm just saying the more we give to our communities and each other, the stronger we become. One helping hand lends a helping hand to help another and another and another. I don't think there's anything wrong with expecting that of people, and it's something anyone can do no matter what their intellectual or income level. It's just people helping people be better people. How is that expecting too much?
 
Sadie said:
I don't think there's anything wrong with expecting that of people, and it's something anyone can do no matter what their intellectual or income level. It's just people helping people be better people. How is that expecting too much?
Click to expand...

Well you are making an emotional and subjective claim. That's fine, we all do. But you have to understand that what you believe is what you believe and not what everyone else believes. What would you say to someone who expected you personally to get a 2nd job and pay for their heroin addiction? (extreme case) Why shouldn't they expect that from you? If you say its because they are harming themselves with drugs, (i agree) you have to understand that that is not quantitatively wrong. There is no real authority for right vs wrong except the individual... and individuals vary wildly.

Its best to not expect anything from anyone but be grateful when it comes to you.
 
No, I think the world is getting better on the whole. We at least have notions of things like human rights, which were unheard of in the past.
 
Dragon said:
No, I think the world is getting better on the whole. We at least have notions of things like human rights, which were unheard of in the past.
Click to expand...

I think this as well.

Western society has come a long way from the point where families needed to spit out at least 8 kids so they could go to work in the mines (or brothels, I suppose) and just earn barely enough to support their parents.

But even over the past few decades, we're actually doing better. We haven't had a great war where we were actually faced with shortages and being forced to make sacrifices (not so in other countries)… obviously this is a good thing but hardships tend to foster a sense of community far more than the relative comfort of the younger generations, which basically makes people apathetic, complacent and indifferent-- we take things for granted (including each other, in terms of employers treating their employees like disposable things instead of human beings) and feel entitled to things that our ancestors had to work much harder for. We're also less likely to appreciate those things when we have them, mostly because we didn't actually suffer or sacrifice for them, which ironically diminishes their worth. So yes, the lack of hardships translates to a weakened sense of community.

One of the reasons that human/civil rights/global concerns have become so important to the west in the past 60 years (and particularly after the Cold War ended) is because there weren't as many seriously pressing domestic issues to stress over… not saying that civil rights isn't important, but when you compare it to things like personal security, global war or even the very real prospect of total nuclear annihilation (some of you won't remember this, but some of us grew up with that)… then it's more of a luxury than a pressing issue. I suppose that terrorism is bad, but it's not like having a ridiculous amount of nuclear warheads pointed directly at you every day and the official US policy being 'we're going to win the cold war'-- and this was only 30 years ago.

I definitely don't think we should give up or that things are perfect, or even that it's not realistic to say that they could get worse--- just that they have been much much worse and if you look at today in comparison to what has actually happened in the past as opposed to some sort of uber-idealistic magic rainbow of total happiness, we're not doing too badly.
 
Last edited:
Paladin-X said:
Western culture is primarily an individualist society. Other parts of the world still ascribe to collectivism.
Click to expand...

And homogeneity.

Japan and South Korea have fewer issues with community and interestingly enough tend to be more extroverted and involved with each other's lives as a whole, but this is also due to the fact that they're monocultural…. as ugly it might sound, multiculturalism creates very large divisions that can be difficult to overcome.
 
Okay, I've finished venting now. I can hear different perspectives :becky:. I work in a field where sometimes I find myself immersed in some pretty raunchy aspects of human nature. Sometimes it becomes a little overwhelming when you see what people are actually capable of doing to each other even in this day and age. It's appalling and sometimes I just can't make that emotional disconnection that's needed. This is when it's time to step back, breathe, and remember why I started doing this in first place.

Passion and idealism can be wonderful things when they're positively channeled. I think a lot of folks who work in the social services will agree that it's easy to let your passion and idealism turn into cynicism after you see so many appalling things year after year. After getting all of this off my chest and reading all of your different perspectives, I realized that I still have the same passion and idealism I started with. It was just underneath all my frustration. It was a blessing to find that. I thought it was gone. I think I need to take a little time and redirect my energy, which I knew I needed to do, but now I can see why and how a little more clearly.

I do appreciate all of your perspectives, and for reminding me that it isn't all bad. I needed that. Thank you all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Quiet
interesting point of view, [MENTION=731]the[/MENTION]
 
Humans have largely been 'in it for themselves' since the beginning; though the human race still has many faults, ultimately we are better as a species in the present. Recognising that people have rights, that you can't just enslave or rape anyone you please, and though corporations can and do take advantage of the population they are still somewhat restricted in it. They certainly cannot be as brazen about it as they used to be.

Though, while I do believe things can and will improve, I do not believe that human nature will change. Personally, if it came between myself and others, there are almost no situations where I would place others before myself.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back